Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 159,436
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#95789 Jul 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Stephen King is well, the king. Oh wait Stephen Hawking is....
Iím not keen on Stephen King although I have read everything if his up to Pet Sematary but got bored. It seems to me that itís the name that sells rather than the content of the books.

The Hawking books are in another league, I donít consider reading them to be entertainment but education.

By the way welcome back

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#95790 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly how many feel about you guys giving us an estimate of time for example: 40,000 years, 4.6 Billion years, 50 Million years.
Sounds like it is numbers pulled out the air, to many people. There isn't a way to contradict this aging process nor any way to prove it. It's evo's way of saying, "We wouldn't make anything up...so just trust and believe us, since you can't positively prove anything's true age.
The estimates of time and aging comes to us from the physicists not the biologists. So you're barking up the wrong tree. In any event, there is solid science to back up the physicists.

What it sounds like to "many people" is more a comment on their education rather than an indictment of science.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#95791 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>This is exactly how many feel about you guys giving us an estimate of time for example: 40,000 years, 4.6 Billion years, 50 Million years.
Sounds like it is numbers pulled out the air, to many people. There isn't a way to contradict this aging process nor any way to prove it. It's evo's way of saying, "We wouldn't make anything up...so just trust and believe us, since you can't positively prove anything's true age.
Except all of the supporting data is out there for you to come to your own conclusions.

If you're not comfortable with the current findings of science, research what we DO say, and why. Then develop an alternate hypothesis, test and re-test your hypothesis, and publish the results.

If you discover something that overturns our current scientific understanding, congratulations!

You're a Nobel Prize winner, and a Geek-hero rock star.

On the other hand, if you dont like what science says because it contradicts your deeply-ingrained religious belief, and are too lazy to do the work described above... So sorry.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95792 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly how many feel about you guys giving us an estimate of time for example: 40,000 years, 4.6 Billion years, 50 Million years.
Sounds like it is numbers pulled out the air, to many people. There isn't a way to contradict this aging process nor any way to prove it. It's evo's way of saying, "We wouldn't make anything up...so just trust and believe us, since you can't positively prove anything's true age.
The dating isn't pulled out of the air though. It is based on sound theory and data. It isn't just backed up with a claim that is left hanging. That not everyone understands the underlying principles does not falsify it. Where is your responsibility to learn?

From what I see on here, it is fundamentalists claiming things out of the air and it is usually fired out both barrels as a claim for their side and an insult against their opposition.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95793 Jul 31, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Science can be sure the universe is expanding because science can measure the effect in more than one way, each giving verification to the findings of other.
You are confusing matter and energy, the ďmissingĒ 5/6th (not 75%) of the universe is dark matter which can now be catalogued, measured and itís effects photographed.
Dark matter and dark energy are two completely different things.
Of course science understands why the corona gets so hot,(they didnít up to the late 40s early 50s when a rational and mathematically provable explanation was conjectured but they do now) and have sent up satellites to verify their understanding.
No mystery, see above
Again, very old hat, science has understood the processes of a stars life for years (including the massive stars that go nova). I occasionally dine with a celebrated particle physicist who has great fun explaining how you are made from the ashes of a 2nd generation sun and will more than likely become fuel for a 4th generation sun.
Plasma and pressure, so yes we do have an idea why.
Everywhere, the universe is big, driving to the supermarket is peanuts compared to the size of the universe. In every direction stars are exploding all the time releasing energy deliberately to confuse the godbots.
Is our solar system odd? As more and more solar systems are discovered (currently at the rate of 2 or 3 a day science considers our solar system is typical. The solar system formed by accretion caused by gravity, just as all other planets, solar systems and galaxies are formed. You also have problems with the meanings of chaos and logic, the solar system formed of the logical consequence of gravity but gravity has no concept of logic, the results are chaotic, that chaos is itself caused by gravity.
I assume this is a christian trick to ask the same question over and over again, you have previously asked this, see above.
If you want to use half century old science to make a point please donít be surprised if you are shown to be out of date.
Each of these statements can be verified by searching google (or whatever) for the relevant terms. 50 year old science does your credibility not the slightest good.
I have no clue what you mean by 'Christian trick' and where have I asked a question over and over and actually got any answers?

If the world is BYO, then why would 50 YO science (that hasn't been changed) make a difference.

They still TODAY, no 50YO, admit they do not understand all about the sun, including what the center of it is made of.

and.....yes, our solar system is unique, and for a good reason.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95794 Jul 31, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>The dating isn't pulled out of the air though. It is based on sound theory and data. It isn't just backed up with a claim that is left hanging. That not everyone understands the underlying principles does not falsify it. Where is your responsibility to learn?
From what I see on here, it is fundamentalists claiming things out of the air and it is usually fired out both barrels as a claim for their side and an insult against their opposition.
How can Dino still have flesh if he died BYO?

Their dating process is flawed,(to say the least).

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#95795 Jul 31, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Iím not keen on Stephen King although I have read everything if his up to Pet Sematary but got bored. It seems to me that itís the name that sells rather than the content of the books.
The Hawking books are in another league, I donít consider reading them to be entertainment but education.
By the way welcome back
I have read some King's books but prefer to watch the movie version. Anyways, heading to Universal Studios right now. That's real entertainment. ;-)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#95796 Jul 31, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
A master to be sure up there with Silverberg, Clarke, Bradbury, Heinlein and Asimov (and dare I say it? Iain M Banks)
And prolific too.
Heinlein (!) dedicated "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" to him, inter alia.

And I'm voting Niven as the greatest living SF writer.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95797 Jul 31, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
The voice that tells you to stop or go is called "thought." There are people who need structure to understand spirituality. Far more often than not the religious structure is in lieu of spirituality, otherwise why would I >constantly< remind Creationists to tell the truth?
You make me laugh with your 'mind your 9th commandment' entries in just about all of your posts, lol!

What reason would creationists have to lie?

There is no monetary reward for believing in creationism.

On the other hand, Evo-scientists have a very lucrative, financial gain and motive for keeping their story spread.

(psssst...they get to keep their jobs)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#95798 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly how many feel about you guys giving us an estimate of time for example: 40,000 years, 4.6 Billion years, 50 Million years.
Sounds like it is numbers pulled out the air, to many people. There isn't a way to contradict this aging process nor any way to prove it. It's evo's way of saying, "We wouldn't make anything up...so just trust and believe us, since you can't positively prove anything's true age.
That "Sounds like" is diagnostic of a lack of education - or (worse) reading.

Those numbers are most certainly NOT "pulled* out of the air"

They're the product of careful observation, testing, and repeatability. Plus, of course, the ability to make reliable predictions.

And open scrutiny by a horde of people who (unike you) understand the processes and would like nothing better than to prove them wrong, and are perfectly capable of making their own observations.

__________
The phrase "Plucked out of the air" sounds much better.- Ed.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#95799 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
You make me laugh with your 'mind your 9th commandment' entries in just about all of your posts, lol!
What reason would creationists have to lie?
There is no monetary reward for believing in creationism.
On the other hand, Evo-scientists have a very lucrative, financial gain and motive for keeping their story spread.
(psssst...they get to keep their jobs)
Ever seen the Vatican? Or a megachurch?

"No monetary reward"?

Youse funny.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95800 Jul 31, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>That "Sounds like" is diagnostic of a lack of education - or (worse) reading.
Those numbers are most certainly NOT "pulled* out of the air"
They're the product of careful observation, testing, and repeatability. Plus, of course, the ability to make reliable predictions.
And open scrutiny by a horde of people who (unike you) understand the processes and would like nothing better than to prove them wrong, and are perfectly capable of making their own observations.
__________
The phrase "Plucked out of the air" sounds much better.- Ed.
The problem is with your "plucked out of the air' aging process, that if you have several scientist separately carefully observe and test, they ALL come up with DIFFERENT DATES.

Explain this.

(hint: they're making this s*** up as they go)

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#95801 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no clue what you mean by 'Christian trick' and where have I asked a question over and over and actually got any answers?
If the world is BYO, then why would 50 YO science (that hasn't been changed) make a difference.
They still TODAY, no 50YO, admit they do not understand all about the sun, including what the center of it is made of.
and.....yes, our solar system is unique, and for a good reason.
The same question was asked twice under slightly different wording but in both questions the meat was why is the suns corona so hot. It is typically christian to go round and round asking the same question over and over in the hope of one day getting the answer that suites their belief.

The answer to either version is available on line and with the inkling for a little self education, something it seems you are not fond of.

Not sure what you mean by BYO (is it British Youth Orchestra? Or Bring Your Own?) but I am certain that science has progressed considerably in the last 50 years. And yes they understand the entire mechanism of the sun, completely. Just because you and your godbot buddies donít is your problem. And why are you moving the goalposts? There was no mention of the centre of the sun (core) in your previous post, the question was about the corona.

FYI, The Sun is made of 74% hydrogen, 24% helium and 1% oxygen The remaining 1% of the Sun is made of iron, nickel, oxygen, silicon, sulphur, magnesium, carbon, neon, calcium and chromium.

Wrong, there are several hundred similar such solar systems that can now be measured if not observed. our solar system is not unique,

However you are welcome to continue with your bronze age ideas of ďdíoh I donít know so god musta did it by magicĒ but please donít attempt to justify your belief by offering outdated science backed up by lies. Remember we are not all as deliberately ignorant as you.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95802 Jul 31, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Ever seen the Vatican? Or a megachurch?
"No monetary reward"?
Youse funny.
The Vatican is not an acceptable argument (too much to discuss here) and many false TV like preachers are not honest...

but the majority are honestly doing this work for faith reasons alone and in these churches most of their donations go to benevolence and missions.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95803 Jul 31, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Ever seen the Vatican? Or a megachurch?
"No monetary reward"?
Youse funny.
...one more thing...the Pope has accepted evolution and martians (if that tells you anything about why I don't prescribe to their teachings)
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#95804 Jul 31, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The same question was asked twice under slightly different wording but in both questions the meat was why is the suns corona so hot. It is typically christian to go round and round asking the same question over and over in the hope of one day getting the answer that suites their belief.
The answer to either version is available on line and with the inkling for a little self education, something it seems you are not fond of.
Not sure what you mean by BYO (is it British Youth Orchestra? Or Bring Your Own?) but I am certain that science has progressed considerably in the last 50 years. And yes they understand the entire mechanism of the sun, completely. Just because you and your godbot buddies donít is your problem. And why are you moving the goalposts? There was no mention of the centre of the sun (core) in your previous post, the question was about the corona.
FYI, The Sun is made of 74% hydrogen, 24% helium and 1% oxygen The remaining 1% of the Sun is made of iron, nickel, oxygen, silicon, sulphur, magnesium, carbon, neon, calcium and chromium.
Wrong, there are several hundred similar such solar systems that can now be measured if not observed. our solar system is not unique,
However you are welcome to continue with your bronze age ideas of ďdíoh I donít know so god musta did it by magicĒ but please donít attempt to justify your belief by offering outdated science backed up by lies. Remember we are not all as deliberately ignorant as you.
Billions of years old=BYO
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, there are several hundred similar such solar systems that can now be measured if not observed. our solar system is not unique,
Our solar system is unique in that the sun, moon and earth are set up to be the perfect home for life. Show me another set up like ours, I'd be interested to see that.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95805 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
You make me laugh with your 'mind your 9th commandment' entries in just about all of your posts, lol!
What reason would creationists have to lie?
There is no monetary reward for believing in creationism.
On the other hand, Evo-scientists have a very lucrative, financial gain and motive for keeping their story spread.
(psssst...they get to keep their jobs)
That is a very good question.

Why would a creationist have to lie?

It can be shown how almost every creationist ever lies time after time. Supposedly they have evidence of creation but they never post any. My conclusion is that with lying they have nothing. They seem to think that lying for Jesus is okay.

It really isn't.

Now what incentive do scientists have for lying? Keeping their jobs? Please dream on. If a scientist is caught in a serious lie about his work he will be canned. Not only that he will not be hired as a research scientist again for a very long period of time.

He could work for some private industry. A lot of them do need scientists and he could continue his research on his own time with his own money and if he ever contributes something of substance that way he might be forgiven.

You cannot show a lying scientist who was not greatly harmed by his lies. We can show you several lying creationists who make quite a bit of money off of their lies and it never ever lands them in trouble, oops.... unless they don't pay their taxes.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95806 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Billions of years old=BYO
<quoted text>
Our solar system is unique in that the sun, moon and earth are set up to be the perfect home for life. Show me another set up like ours, I'd be interested to see that.
There have been quite a few planets discovered in the "Goldilocks Zone" of their own star. I am not so sure if the Moon played a critical role in the evolution of life. Did the tides from the Moon help or hinder evolution? At any rate here is an article of only one example of where another star may have a planet with life around it:

http://www.futurity.org/science-technology/ea...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95807 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is with your "plucked out of the air' aging process, that if you have several scientist separately carefully observe and test, they ALL come up with DIFFERENT DATES.
Explain this.
(hint: they're making this s*** up as they go)
Oh, that's easy to explain.

Your claim is pure made up bullshit.

Scientists are very specific when they date an item on how they found the item. How they harvested it. How they dated it, etc.. If a date is not repeatable it is worthless.

Now if a scientist gets a different date from another scientist and he finds where the other scientist made an error, and other scientists do the same work and agree with him, then we have a valid date.

Dates are never "Plucked out of the air".

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#95808 Jul 31, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
...one more thing...the Pope has accepted evolution and martians (if that tells you anything about why I don't prescribe to their teachings)
I see your record of inaccuracies continues.

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