Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 164439 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95606 Jul 28, 2013
"When confronted with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, evolutionists usually use two tricks to try to escape. The first is to state that "it only applies to closed systems, and biological creatures are open systems, so it doesn't affect evolution" (they actually intend to say isolated, not closed, but we know what they mean). The fact is that the Second Law applies to all systems, open or closed, and to all actions and chemical reactions, from molecules to galaxies. The words "except for..." are not in this universal law. A thermodynamics system is simply any part of the universe we want to study. If we are doing an experiment in a bottle, the inside of the bottle is our system and the bottle itself is the "walls" of the system. There are only 3 kinds of systems: if no energy or matter can pass through the walls, it is an isolated system; if energy can pass through but matter cannot, it is a closed system; if both energy and matter can pass through the walls, it is an open system. Now, it is true that the laws of thermodynamics and entropy are defined in terms of isolated systems, because that is the simplest way to express them. However, experts who write textbooks on the subject are quick to say that isolated systems do not occur in nature. For practical applications, a procedure called the Legendre Transform mathematically converts entropy to a variable called Gibbs free energy that is useful for working with real-world systems. Most natural systems are open, but it is convenient to model them as closed. For example, even though a bacterium is an open system, modeling it as a closed system makes it easier to understand chemical reactions in it.2,8

You are an open system. You eat food (which comes from outside yourself) and your body survives and grows. Evolutionists believe that all we need is an open system with sufficient energy flowing into it for evolution to succeed. If that were so, you could just stand right behind a jet engine as the aircraft prepares for takeoff, absorb that blast of energy, and evolve to a higher life form. In reality, of course, you would be incinerated because absorbing energy without a mechanism to convert it to a useful form and employ it is destructive or useless. The mechanism must be very specific. Sticking food in your ear will not work; it must go into your mouth and through the digestive system. And the mechanism must be in place and functioning first, before energy is added, or the energy is wasted. The "closed system" ploy is just an attempt to avoid dealing with the Second Law because the Law prohibits any functioning biological mechanism from falling together by pure chance, without assistance or plan, using only the properties of matter.

The second trick they use is to say that "when you freeze water, the disordered molecules become beautifully ordered ice crystals or snowflakes. If water can bypass the Second Law and organize its molecules by a natural process, why not the chemicals of life?" At room temperature, water molecules are bouncing off each other and you have water. When you take away heat and they freeze, water molecules stick to each other with weak molecular bonds, forming ice crystals and snowflakes because of the shape of the H2O molecule. The same thing happens if you put a bunch of weak magnets in a jar and shake it. The magnets bounce around. When you stop, the magnets stick together. They are at a lower energy level. There is order, yet no complexity - just a simple repetitive structure that does not do anything. The Second Law is not bypassed or violated.

But guess what. Amino acid molecules that form proteins, and nucleotide molecules that form DNA and RNA resistcombining at any temperature. To combine, they need the help of mechanisms in a living cell or a biochemist in an organic chemistry laboratory.17 It means that nothing happens in the primeval soup, the pond of chemicals where evolutionists believe life began."

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95607 Jul 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
I love the quote by Dr. Collin Patterson, past head of the zoology section of the British museum -
"It occurred to me that after studying this stuff for over 25 years there wasn't one thing I knew about it - that I could prove was true"
"I posted this question to a very prestigious group of evolutionists and and all I got was silence for a long time until one person spoke up and stated 'there's one thing I do know, it shouldn't be taught in High School'".
I personally contacted Dr. Patterson and asked him about this and he confirmed it. Being familiar with the animal life and lack of intermediates in Alaska, I asked him about this issue and he stated - "My friends in the tropics say the same thing".
The truth is there are and never have been any intermediates except in animations, drawings and typed words in the textbooks, because evolution never happened and cant happen. Cellular biology confirms this absolutely, as do attempts to replicate it in a thousand laboratories worldwide that have failed miserably. Its nothing but a belief system based on faith - a religion.
Wow, you are amazing and you know so many people.

You know when you dig a nugget out of the quote mine you just got to run with it forever don't you.

So was this before or after 1998 that you personally contacted Dr. Patterson?

It is especially troubling that you say this when Patterson made it clear that his words were being misinterpreted and abused.

Let's be serious SBT, you never contacted Dr. Patterson. You are just posting cut an paste here.

Why would prominent evolutionists anywhere waste time listening to someone as unqualified to discuss with them as you appear to be.

I don't buy anything you are selling. It is made of cheap construction and poor materials and doesn't hold up to the least stress.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95608 Jul 28, 2013
"DNA is made of only right-handed versions of nucleotides, while proteins are made of only left-handed versions of amino acids. Yet any random chemical reaction that produced nucleotides or amino acids would make an equal mix of left and right-handed versions of each. Even if the thousands of nucleotides or amino acids needed to form individual DNA or protein molecules were able to combine from this mix, they would be a jumble of left and right-handed versions that could not function at all.

Ilya Prigogene coauthored a paper in 1972 that says in an open "system there exists a possibility for formation of ordered, low-entropy structures at sufficiently low temperatures. This ordering principle is responsible for the appearance of ordered structures such as crystals... Unfortunately this principle cannot explain the formation of biological structures."33 Prigogene won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1977 for research on dissipative structures, such as tornados, for contributions to nonequilibrium thermodynamics, and for bridging the gap between biology and other sciences. Evolutionists wrongly claim he won for showing how thermodynamics could explain the formation of organized systems, from fluctuations in chaos, that lead to the origin of life. They thought he was their hero. Over thirty years later, nothing has come of it. There is no escape from the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It prohibits the spontaneous origin of life and macroevolution."

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#95609 Jul 28, 2013
Don't you folks find it interesting in your supposed 3.6 BY life timeline(this week, changes all the time), that the ultra-complex operation of the cell has stayed the same all this 'time'? Same mechanism, same coding language, the same, the same, the same???

Boy, with evolution so creative in its mindless direction, it should have devised a better mechanism by now! Oh well, with more time, imagination and study you will solve that issue!

Oh, by good observation and hard work, a group recently discovered a new twist -

“Over the last few years, we’ve been starting to appreciate just how the folding of the genome helps determine how it’s expressed and regulated,”

“This study provides the first indication that the three-dimensional structure of the genome can influence the splicing of genes.”

“We can infer that the genome is folded in such a way that the promoter region — the sequence that initiates transcription of a gene — is located alongside exons, and they are all presented to transcription machinery.”

http://www.garvan.org.au/news-events/news/the...

"expressed and regulated,”

"transcription machinery.”

Oh boy, ID again!

This finding is the end of evolutionary gene mutation schemes devised to jump 'Type' gulfs, like Monkeys to Man. Over rover.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95610 Jul 28, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
http://www.newgeology.us/prese ntation32.html
"Violating the law:
The theory of Evolution violates two laws of science. TheSecond Law of Thermodynamics (law of increasing entropy) says that things which start out concentrated together spread out over time. If you heat one room in a house, then open the door to that room, eventually the temperature in the whole house evens out (reaches equilibrium). Knowing how far this evening-out has progressed at any point in time tells you the entropy. Entropy can measure the loss of a system's ability to do work. Entropy is also a measure of disorder, and that is where evolution theory hits an impenetrable wall. Natural processes proceed in only one direction, toward equilibrium and disorder. Things fall apart over time, they do not get more organized. We can overcome this by making a machine and adding energy, but the Second Law prevents such a machine from assembling spontaneously from raw materials.
The Law of Biogenesis was established by Louis Pasteur three years after Darwin's book was published, and simply says that life only comes from life. Living cells divide to make new cells, and fertilized eggs and seeds develop into animals and plants, but chemicals never fall together and life appears. Evolutionists often call certain chemicals "the building blocks of life", giving people the false impression that you just stack the building blocks together and you get life. No one has ever done that, including the famous 1953 Miller/Urey experiment where all they got were clumps of amino acids. Many people mistakenly think scientists have made life from chemicals in the lab, but they have not (though many have tried very hard). If one were to succeed, you would know about it. He would get every science award there is, be all over the news, and have movies, books, buildings, statues, and schools dedicated to him, so desperate are evolutionists on this matter. For something to be a law of science, it can never be found to have been violated, even once, over thousands of trials. No exceptions. A theory that violates two laws of science is in big trouble."
The often quoted and even more often debunked notion about thermodynamics and evolution.

Are any of you fundamentalists more widely read? Seriously can't believe people that claim a search for the truth only read one side and a butchered, made up side at that.

Earth is not a closed system.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95611 Jul 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
I love the quote by Dr. Collin Patterson, past head of the zoology section of the British museum -

"It occurred to me that after studying this stuff for over 25 years there wasn't one thing I knew about it - that I could prove was true"

"I posted this question to a very prestigious group of evolutionists and and all I got was silence for a long time until one person spoke up and stated 'there's one thing I do know, it shouldn't be taught in High School'".

I personally contacted Dr. Patterson and asked him about this and he confirmed it. Being familiar with the animal life and lack of intermediates in Alaska, I asked him about this issue and he stated - "My friends in the tropics say the same thing".

The truth is there are and never have been any intermediates except in animations, drawings and typed words in the textbooks, because evolution never happened and cant happen. Cellular biology confirms this absolutely, as do attempts to replicate it in a thousand laboratories worldwide that have failed miserably. Its nothing but a belief system based on faith - a religion.
Interesting.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95612 Jul 28, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting.
Not really.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95614 Jul 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Not really.
I love the quote by Dr. Collin Patterson, past head of the zoology section of the British museum -

"It occurred to me that after studying this stuff for over 25 years there wasn't one thing I knew about it - that I could prove was true"

Interesting and funny.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95615 Jul 28, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I love the quote by Dr. Collin Patterson, past head of the zoology section of the British museum -
"It occurred to me that after studying this stuff for over 25 years there wasn't one thing I knew about it - that I could prove was true"
Interesting and funny.
Childish stories for childish minds.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#95616 Jul 28, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I love the quote by Dr. Collin Patterson, past head of the zoology section of the British museum -
"It occurred to me that after studying this stuff for over 25 years there wasn't one thing I knew about it - that I could prove was true"
Interesting and funny.
Can you provide a link for that quote?

I've looked for it via Google, and am unable to find it.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95617 Jul 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Childish stories for childish minds.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you agree that evolution is a "Childish stories for childish minds"

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95618 Jul 28, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pleasantly surprised that you agree that evolution is a "Childish stories for childish minds"
Wow, twisting my words in an effort to support your own claims. I have never seen that done before. That is amazing. You are so smart and clever.

ROFLMMFAO!!!

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95619 Jul 28, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you provide a link for that quote?
I've looked for it via Google, and am unable to find it.
Here is what I found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Patterson_ (biologist)

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95620 Jul 28, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you provide a link for that quote?
I've looked for it via Google, and am unable to find it.
It is possible this isn't a real quote and merely paraphrasing as quote. The guys that use these things don't tend to be too diligent about verification. They just assume that since it supports their cause it must by definition be true and they run with it.

Like that old telephone game. What starts out isn't what you end up with.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95621 Jul 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It is possible this isn't a real quote and merely paraphrasing as quote. The guys that use these things don't tend to be too diligent about verification. They just assume that since it supports their cause it must by definition be true and they run with it.
Like that old telephone game. What starts out isn't what you end up with.
I found out why Christians are past masters of quote mining. They quote mine their own Bible.

It is a bit funny since we point out how we can get the Bible to deny God if you quote mine it and they are guilty of the same thing. If you check out the supposed "over 300 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus" you will see that many of them are quotes taken out of context. The so called prophesy was not a prophesy at all.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#95622 Jul 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I found out why Christians are past masters of quote mining. They quote mine their own Bible.
It is a bit funny since we point out how we can get the Bible to deny God if you quote mine it and they are guilty of the same thing. If you check out the supposed "over 300 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus" you will see that many of them are quotes taken out of context. The so called prophesy was not a prophesy at all.
Oh what a tangled web they weave.
Warren

Metamora, IL

#95623 Jul 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I found out why Christians are past masters of quote mining. They quote mine their own Bible.
It is a bit funny since we point out how we can get the Bible to deny God if you quote mine it and they are guilty of the same thing. If you check out the supposed "over 300 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus" you will see that many of them are quotes taken out of context. The so called prophesy was not a prophesy at all.
Indeed......The human animal has been fooled by antities far beyond their comprehension. Imagine knowing they created earth animals (human beings).....a controlled experiment gone wrong.
drink The hive

Anonymous Proxy

#95624 Jul 28, 2013
What Do U Know About The "Green People?"...

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1303/tardigra...
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95625 Jul 28, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>Can you provide a link for that quote?

I've looked for it via Google, and am unable to find it.
About 6 post back. I
Quoted a post about 6 post back.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#95626 Jul 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, twisting my words in an effort to support your own claims. I have never seen that done before. That is amazing. You are so smart and clever.

ROFLMMFAO!!!
Well first you need a Moron to leave a post wide open like you did.

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