Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#95153 Jul 8, 2013
humble brother wrote:
<quoted text>
This matter not related to physics. It is related to the philosophy of natural science.
Do you have a term for "absolutely everything that exists"? It is also ok for you to say that you have no term for "absolutely everything that exists".
So do you have a term?
That is beyond the scope of anyone's reasoning.
You propose everything that exists is known.
So it's a flawed question.
I'll not answer you again.
In classical physics everything that is known to exist is in this universe. So for it's worth the term is universe or macrocosm.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95154 Jul 8, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I take your comments as a professional seriously, and appreciate a fair rebuttal. What has happened is evolution is often used a tool to move youth away from God entirely, and mock people of faith. Look where America and much of the world is going morally.
OK, I take your concern seriously too. Nobody wants to foist a science on people that is going to cause misery.

My first point though, is that its an argument from consequences. i.e. "I don't like the potential societal implications of people accepting evolution, therefore we should reject evolution". Its not a valid way to argue a point of science.

Now, if your brother committed suicide I am truly sorry for your loss. However I have to point out that there are suicides among the religious, not to mention crime and corruption. In fact the countries with the lowest corruption rates and the highest happiness index scores are in many cases the most atheistic (Scandinavia etc).

Which leads to the question, is it your religion that prevents misery and crime, or is it something else? Perhaps churchgoers in the US have a sense of community and belonging, and these same things are also provided by some other mechanism in these "happy atheist" countries! Are you jumping to conclusions in assuming its loss of faith in a Judeo-Christian version of God?

I personally think humans are up to the truth, and can accommodate it. I know many happy, well adjusted and moral people who do not believe they are going to exist in any form after they kick the bucket.
So the "science" falsely so called" is brainwashing millions of youth, resulting in a complete absence of a moral compass.
I dispute that a moral compass requires belief in the Bible or even in God. On the contrary, simply being good out of fear of God or hope for a heavenly reward is a kind of cheap, counterfeit morality. True morality is based on concern for other humans, not fear of deities.
I differ concerning Genesis Chap 1-10. To one has worked in mining for 35 years off and on, it fits. I am perfectly fine that your side doesnt, but as you know dogma is dulling.
No, its not dogma. Its the independently converging lines of evidence from geology, physics, astronomy, and biology. Even archeology. Genesis does not fit empirical reality. If you really studied the science instead of focusing only on what I regard as the sham hatchet job on science that you seem focused on, you might come to see that.

Anyway, you are a good sport and at least you bring arguments to the table rather than the mere bluster that is all too common here. All the best.
humble brother

Helsinki, Finland

#95155 Jul 8, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
That is beyond the scope of anyone's reasoning.
You propose everything that exists is known.
So it's a flawed question.
I'll not answer you again.
In classical physics everything that is known to exist is in this universe. So for it's worth the term is universe or macrocosm.
And you fall back to the same straw man nonsense. The nature of the matter is philosophical and it specifically includes also everything that is unknown to us.

How many times does "absolute totality of all known and unknown existence" need to be repeated to you?

You run circles around the term "known universe". So now for you the terms "Universe" and "known universe" mean the one and the same thing then? Is that the case for you?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#95156 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Just wondering MikeF. Why don't you chase it? SubZone's excuse is he does it to waste time while sitting and waiting for responses to his posts. Why don't you do that?
Really not interested. I suppose it wouldn't be that hard since I usually remain fairly high up on the board.

There has only been one thing of any value in the 'game' as I see it and that is the ability to give 'props'. Rather that judging, props are identifiable.

Other than that, macht nichts.

Never spelled out 'topix' either.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95157 Jul 8, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Really not interested. I suppose it wouldn't be that hard since I usually remain fairly high up on the board.
There has only been one thing of any value in the 'game' as I see it and that is the ability to give 'props'. Rather that judging, props are identifiable.
Other than that, macht nichts.
Never spelled out 'topix' either.
Agreed. But Today I did get ahead of SZ just to watch him not be able to pass up that driving urge of his to get ahead on points. LOL

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95158 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said: You have a place/order for us, you chase the crown religiously and think you are the teacher in here. LMFAO. You are a joke that comes up with the stupidest crap. Get a life!!!
No moron, I am not the teacher. That does not mean that I or others cannot help you to learn. See if you learn we win. You can only keep your stupid beliefs by keeping yourself stupid.

And nope, the crown is not what I am chasing. I already have explained this to you several times. But then someone with an IQ int the 80's needs several explanations before they learn anything.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95159 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. But Today I did get ahead of SZ just to watch him not be able to pass up that driving urge of his to get ahead on points. LOL
Really? I did not even notice.

How many points did the moron get today?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95160 Jul 8, 2013
Oh noes!! They hypocrite is ahead of me!!

Hey ignoramus. Yes, I probably will go after all of the points for the day. I am not changing my behavior to please you. I don't care whether or not you go after all of the points too.

You can do whatever pleases you.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95161 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No moron, I am not the teacher. That does not mean that I or others cannot help you to learn. See if you learn we win. You can only keep your stupid beliefs by keeping yourself stupid.
And nope, the crown is not what I am chasing. I already have explained this to you several times. But then someone with an IQ int the 80's needs several explanations before they learn anything.
You always claim that you will "teach" the stupid people.

Oh and by the way. What is it that you are chasing? You have never said.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95162 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Oh noes!! They hypocrite is ahead of me!!
Hey ignoramus. Yes, I probably will go after all of the points for the day. I am not changing my behavior to please you. I don't care whether or not you go after all of the points too.
You can do whatever pleases you.
I called that right didn't I MikeF. He couldn't even let it lay for an hour. LMMFAO

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95163 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You always claim that you will "teach" the stupid people.
Oh and by the way. What is it that you are chasing? You have never said.
I always offer to help the stupid people to learn. Most of the creatards are stupid by choice, They are not mentally deficient. They are not mentally ill, like Jim seriously is.

Even you could learn if you wanted to. You like most creatards are ignorant by choice. Is it foolish to be that way? Yes. Is it curable? Yes. Would it go against your religious beliefs to learn how evolution works? Probably not. But odds are you would have problems with your religion if you did learn.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95164 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I always offer to help the stupid people to learn. Most of the creatards are stupid by choice, They are not mentally deficient. They are not mentally ill, like Jim seriously is.
Even you could learn if you wanted to. You like most creatards are ignorant by choice. Is it foolish to be that way? Yes. Is it curable? Yes. Would it go against your religious beliefs to learn how evolution works? Probably not. But odds are you would have problems with your religion if you did learn.
I have told you time and time again. I believe we were created(longer ago than the bible says) and have since evolved. Evolution is merely change over time. But being I don't agree with you, the big bang theory and the muddy soup as you do, you think I am full of crap.

You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#95165 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I called that right didn't I MikeF. He couldn't even let it lay for an hour. LMMFAO
That between the two of you. I have no dog in that hunt.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95166 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I always offer to help the stupid people to learn. Most of the creatards are stupid by choice, They are not mentally deficient. They are not mentally ill, like Jim seriously is.
Even you could learn if you wanted to. You like most creatards are ignorant by choice. Is it foolish to be that way? Yes. Is it curable? Yes. Would it go against your religious beliefs to learn how evolution works? Probably not. But odds are you would have problems with your religion if you did learn.
You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing? You have never said as you claim you have.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#95167 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't try to use me as an excuse for you obsession. I could go for it anytime I wanted but I just don't see the point or get satisfaction of being here everyday, every week doing the same things to get it as you seem to get the satisfaction from doing.
Excuses, excuses.

I suppose you could think it you really wanted to too.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95168 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuses, excuses.
I suppose you could think it you really wanted to too.
You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing? You have never said as you claim you have.

“A Idiot Thinks Im Savoir Faire”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Paranoid That I Am Everywhere

#95169 Jul 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuses, excuses.
I suppose you could think it you really wanted to too.
Are you ever going to answer this or just keep running away and avoiding it.

You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing? You have never said as you claim you have.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#95170 Jul 8, 2013
One way or another wrote:
Its difficult enough for any individual to speak in the forums, much less speak against a group of people, hell bent on the name calling and childish innuendo, just for having a different opinion.
Any new thinking and your anti-American cowardly group, does everything it can to use name calling and worse, to stop any new thinking, instead of offering intelligent rebuttal.
By your actions and that of your group, you seek to stop anyone from talking, that doesn't agree with your cowardly clique.
You don't have a "different opinion," you are just refusing to acknowledge facts. That makes you either insane, or stupid.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#95171 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I have told you time and time again. I believe we were created(longer ago than the bible says) and have since evolved. Evolution is merely change over time. But being I don't agree with you, the big bang theory and the muddy soup as you do, you think I am full of crap.
You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing?
This "not believing" the big bang is interesting.

Einstein hated the idea and tried to support a view of endless long term stability in the universe. The idea of a creation point was not welcomed, but derided, by scientists. Even the term "big bang" was originally one of derision against the theory by detractors (Fred Hoyle).

It arose from hubble's observations of red shift in the 1920s and was not taken seriously then. Only in the 60s, when a second line of evidence appeared (the CMBR), did some scientists give it a second look. And since then, more evidence has accumulated.

All of it, explainable by the big bang, and nobody has an alternative which explains it all coherently.

That is why scientists now accept it. Not because they wanted to, not because its anti religion (in fact its more pro-religion in some ways, giving the universe a definite start point). They accept it for the evidence.

I don't think whether your belief or mine WANTS it to be true makes any difference. That is where the evidence leads us - Mr Peacock in the Drawing Room, like it or not.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#95172 Jul 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I have told you time and time again. I believe we were created(longer ago than the bible says) and have since evolved. Evolution is merely change over time. But being I don't agree with you, the big bang theory and the muddy soup as you do, you think I am full of crap.
You still are avoiding the question. What is it you are chasing?
Nope, you are completely wrong. You are an idiot because you are denying facts and ignoring evidence, yep, it's that simple.

Here's a list of facts:
1. Life changes over time, in other words, it evolves.
2. The universe is expanding, which means it had to be very small at one point.
3. Life is what we call a collection of chemical reactions.

The evidence is too much to include in one post, but you have denied it all.

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