Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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Level 9

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Everett, WA

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#94818
Jul 1, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact is any 5th grader can be convinced that long-age isochon dating is a failed blunderbust of non-science.
How do you expect anyone to believe you when you make such blatant lies.
Do you realize that every other uniform or physics time measurement from moon dust to sediments to erosion to HE to PO214 to magnesium and so on and so on faults the isochons?
Nope, more lies. Or complete idiocy on your part.
The first Moon dust estimate was off by orders of magnitude. There is no problem with Moon dust. You are getting your "science" from lying creatard sources. What sediments? Are you talking about those on the bottom of the ocean? You are truly an ignorant fool. Look at my user name.
It's so bad that none of my geo professors would consider using them on this issue in my undergrad, pretty telling to me. Go to school and find out for yourself, it's geo 102. The isochron's false each other and don't make any sense to correlate even in the strata vs the column. What are they then? Parent and Daughter decay isotopes with long half-lives that appear related. This was a major obstacle and the nuc physicists on the rate team were direct about it. We found using the same 4 major tests on the same rock sample's provided wildly differing age results IF, and I say IF, the sample's were given to multiple labs in blind. If you don't they start tossing out 'discordant ages' at will to fit the evo age model. The study caught them. One thing they were concordant in, they all had a fast fwd signature, interesting. The dates are also upside down (and always have been) in the G canyon, which should be your best model, again all buried in the tables, it gets old, they always want it both ways. And don't worry, I have alot more to say about dating systems.
Even more lies from a hopeless idiot. Plus you broke the rule on the Gish Gallop. If you want to make a list like this all it takes to debunk the whole list is to show that one item is wrong. Do you want to play that game?
I will give you another chance. Bring these up one at a time until you are tired. I will show you how each and every claim is wrong. Or if you bring the list up I will debunk it by choosing the one I want to debunk.

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#94820
Jul 1, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>do you have to keep telling these proven lies to make youself fell better about worshipping a proven myth ? I know that must make you feel foolish...quite the gullible idiot, really, but most sane people would grow from that mistake, you seem to be devolving...
Which came first? the plants or the plant eaters?

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Dubai, UAE

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#94821
Jul 1, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I deal with hard science/technology and facts to make real things work every day here.
Then deal with this, written by an ex-Creation geologist.

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/geologic...

Not a single creationist on this forum has had the balls to read it.

But its packed with the hard science you deal with every day, so perhaps you can deal with it. It also contain the full list of references to peer reviewed science.

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#94822
Jul 2, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
If you did have the fats you wouldn't be debating me about the burden of proof because you would have the proof. You have faith and belief like everyone else. I do have my personal proof and as I said I except you are not of God, you are a drone, or acting like you are a drone.
Faith versus Proof are not the only ways of looking at the world.

There is another way, which is, a degree of confidence based on the amount of supporting evidence and the lack of evidence against.

Nobody "believes in" evolution. They accept it as the best explanation we have based on the evidence - evidence explained by evolution and often predicted by it. If new evidence falsifies evolution, it will be modified or ditched. So far, in 150 years, no evidence has been found that falsifies it. So our level of confidence that it is true or close to true is pretty high.

That is the way we look at ALL scientific theories, and evolution is no different.

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#94823
Jul 2, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
You could trace back to Noah but not past Noah and his family. That's as far back as your bottle neck could go.
Funny that. There is no bottleneck in the human population around 5000 years ago or anything remotely close to that.

On the contrary, we have evidence from haplotype analysis etc that any bottleneck occurred at least 50,000 years ago, and that bottleneck still comprised at least 10,000 adults.

And for most creatures, there is no bottleneck even back then.

We have heard all the claims of evidence for a flood, and none of it is convincing. You also ignore the scientific method completely. You can have 10 or 50 pieces of evidence consistent with a Flood, but it only takes ONE verified falsification to debunk your hypothesis.

So lets add to the missing bottleneck, the 600,000+ years of continuous ice sheet cores, the archeological evidence of human continuity through any "flood period", the impossible requirements of an Ark given the number of species we now know exist, the inclusion of Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA in some but not all human populations...

Each alone would be enough to convince an objective thinker in the matter. The Flood is a myth. Probably derived from a real local flood event, possibly a huge one as north of the fertile crescent, the Black Sea was created in a single flood event around 6000 years ago, probably wiping out entire communities wholesale.

Having no better explanation at the time, no doubt this event was ascribed to the anger of the Gods at human sinfulness.

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#94824
Jul 2, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Your 3 BIG Myths:
1) the Big Bang when nothing exploded
and created everything.

etc

...And when I snap my fingers you will wake up and believe these 3 myths as if they were fact.
"SNAP"
Your problem being, the Big Bang is accepted by scientists at this time because it is supported by physical evidence that is difficult to explain any other way. Even better, the hypothesis was first considered when one piece of evidence was found (red shift), but not taken seriously until a second piece which the hypothesis had predicted showed up (the CMBR), and its now supported by multiple lines of evidence that in many cases it predicted.

At the same time, there is no evidence that falsifies it.

Nothing to do with myths or snapping of fingers. Just evidence, every time.

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#94825
Jul 2, 2013
 

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Aussiebob wrote:
<quoted text>
You truly are dumb if you go back over these post you will find where it says i side neither way just as I'm not religious
But you and others went on a mad sarcastic rampage to avoid answering a very simple physics question about the rate of fall of two bullets.

The answer by AM was correct, including the modifier in case the horizontal distance covered by the bullet is significant in terms of the earth's surface curvature.

They will hit the ground at the same time. Each will accelerate towards the earth at 9.8m/s/s vertically regardless of their horizontal velocity. That is basic Newtonian mechanics, known and verified for 350 years.

Its not a crime not to know that. Not everyone did physics, and why should they?

But we will take this simple example as an indicator of how you are likely to respond to any question you cannot answer - with bluster, insults, and legalistic twisting.

Its so much easier to learn something than to endlessly defend ignorance.

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#94826
Jul 2, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
SZ, no matter how many links I provide you will make no diff. You are playing the lawyers game of keeping me on the defensive with busy requests that have little or nothing to do with the facts. When i find them you brush them off.
Fact is any 5th grader can be convinced that long-age isochon dating is a failed blunderbust of non-science. Do you realize that every other uniform or physics time measurement from moon dust to sediments to erosion to HE to PO214 to magnesium and so on and so on faults the isochons? It's so bad that none of my geo professors would consider using them on this issue in my undergrad, pretty telling to me. Go to school and find out for yourself, it's geo 102. The isochron's false each other and don't make any sense to correlate even in the strata vs the column. What are they then? Parent and Daughter decay isotopes with long half-lives that appear related. This was a major obstacle and the nuc physicists on the rate team were direct about it. We found using the same 4 major tests on the same rock sample's provided wildly differing age results IF, and I say IF, the sample's were given to multiple labs in blind. If you don't they start tossing out 'discordant ages' at will to fit the evo age model. The study caught them. One thing they were concordant in, they all had a fast fwd signature, interesting. The dates are also upside down (and always have been) in the G canyon, which should be your best model, again all buried in the tables, it gets old, they always want it both ways. And don't worry, I have alot more to say about dating systems.
Choose just one of your allegations and provide peer reviewed links supporting it.

That shouldn't be hard. Your initial disclaimer above can be ignored. You don't wriggle out that easily.

In the meantime, I will arbitrarily choose just one of your allegations and show why its false.

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#94827
Jul 2, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact is any 5th grader can be convinced that long-age isochon dating is a failed blunderbust of non-science.
Fact is, anybody of any age can be convinced of something if they only hear distortions, but are unaware that they are distortions. Perhaps even YOU.

Isochron dating gives concordant ages within the limits of statistical error in the vast majority of cases where the samples are known to be undisturbed.
It's so bad that none of my geo professors would consider using them on this issue in my undergrad, pretty telling to me. Go to school and find out for yourself, it's geo 102.
That school would be the Robert Jones Creation University I presume.
The isochron's false each other and don't make any sense to correlate even in the strata vs the column.
Back it up.
What are they then? Parent and Daughter decay isotopes with long half-lives that appear related. This was a major obstacle and the nuc physicists on the rate team were direct about it. We found using the same 4 major tests on the same rock sample's provided wildly differing age results IF, and I say IF, the sample's were given to multiple labs in blind.
And IF and I say IF they were really samples from exactly the same piece of rock and IF the rock suffered no intrusions etc and IF the discordance was in excess of the dating methods and IF the samples were not at the extreme effective ranges of the respective dating methods.

Verify all of the above and you might have a point.
The dates are also upside down (and always have been) in the G canyon, which should be your best model, again all buried in the tables, it gets old, they always want it both ways. And don't worry,
False. There are certain portions of the Canyon that have clearly experienced some folding, but that is not difficult to spot. Nor difficult to understand. In general, the Canyon provides ages consistent with conventional geology.

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/geologic...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#94828
Jul 2, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and thank you for making my point.
You had a point??? Who knew?
Robert Stevens wrote:
You're a drone in the universe.
Perhaps. However, drones do serve a purpose. You, on the other hand...
Robert Stevens wrote:
Tell me what becomes of you 99+% of time. It is od you spend it online. Such a small existence. Afterall you do know yourself as all others do.
My *JOB* is monitoring and coordinating one of the largest educational networks in the country. Which, as you might expect, requires me to be at a computer all day long. You clowns are just a diversion from a generally boring day. Much like whack-a-mole.

And since you've asked, the rest of the time I do tons of volunteer work, serve as a director of a racing organization and, from time to time, perform on stage.

So my existence is no where near as small as you seem to think. But that's the kind of thinking I expect from small people such as yourself.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

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#94829
Jul 2, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"No single Adam or Eve."
You cannot say this.
You could trace back to Noah but not past Noah and his family. That's as far back as your bottle neck could go.
"No talking snake or donkey."
Impossible to prove. Were you there?
Didn't think so.
"No world-wide flood."
Lots of evidence of a WWF, I will save the readers of 10,000+ postings showing just a fraction of the proof of the WWF.
"The sun did not stand still in the sky for a full day."
Why? Because you say so? Arrogance!
__________
Your 3 BIG Myths:
1) the Big Bang when nothing exploded
and created everything.
2) rain falling on rocks and settling in a mud puddle and spontaneous self generating life sprang forth.
3) plants evolving into plant eating animals.
And when I snap my fingers you will wake up and believe these 3 myths as if they were fact.
"SNAP"
Massive stupidity.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

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#94830
Jul 2, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Then like I said "Tell you what SubZone. Lets both get on top of a 3 story building. Me with a 22 rifle and you with a handful of 22 bullets. We will set a target down below and I will bet you $100 dollars per bullet the one I shoot will hit the ground or target before the bullet you drop does. We can make this bet as manybets/times I will fly to where you are at.
WTF???
RedHorseRevelati on

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#94831
Jul 2, 2013
 
.

ANTICHRIST ..on world stage

http://youtu.be/n7ok0g8iwJI

.

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Dubai, UAE

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#94832
Jul 2, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
WTF???
Somebody offered a lesson in basic physics that went horribly wrong.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#94833
Jul 2, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Somebody offered a lesson in basic physics that went horribly wrong.
Evidently. Sheesh!

SBT
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Since: Jun 13

United States

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#94835
Jul 2, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you expect anyone to believe you when you make such blatant lies.
<quoted text>
Nope, more lies. Or complete idiocy on your part.
The first Moon dust estimate was off by orders of magnitude. There is no problem with Moon dust. You are getting your "science" from lying creatard sources. What sediments? Are you talking about those on the bottom of the ocean? You are truly an ignorant fool. Look at my user name.
<quoted text>
Even more lies from a hopeless idiot. Plus you broke the rule on the Gish Gallop. If you want to make a list like this all it takes to debunk the whole list is to show that one item is wrong. Do you want to play that game?
I will give you another chance. Bring these up one at a time until you are tired. I will show you how each and every claim is wrong. Or if you bring the list up I will debunk it by choosing the one I want to debunk.
Your wrong SZ, I knew one of the heli pilots that trained the lander astronauts, they we scared to death they would be dealing many feet of dust, hence the big skis that were not needed. Just a few inches were there, you see the moon has not been around that long. Your side is covering up.

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#94836
Jul 2, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes we can. two genetically identical people cannot populate a whole planet. Adam and Eve is a myth.

not one shred of evidence for a world wide flood in the time of humans. not one shred. you have been proven wrong on this so many time, why do you continue to lie about this?
"two genetically identical people cannot populate a whole planet. Adam and Eve is a myth."

Do you have a clue how stupid this argument is?

You claim the whole world was populated plants and animals from ONE spontaneous self generating life form.

OMG get a clue!

SBT
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#94837
Jul 2, 2013
 

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Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Then deal with this, written by an ex-Creation geologist.
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/geologic...
Not a single creationist on this forum has had the balls to read it.
But its packed with the hard science you deal with every day, so perhaps you can deal with it. It also contain the full list of references to peer reviewed science.
I noticed rightaway that the author omitted the number 1 evidence for a worldwide flood, the Great Unconformity that shows up all over the planet;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Unconformi...

Take a look a the supergroup in the above that is the fossil-less dirt that Adam walk on, "created out of water". What catastrophe caused that? A local flood? I have been to both. Scary evidence.

Number 2, he failed to mention anything about the relearning of uniformity that occurred after Mt St. Helen's blew, which challenged 40 years of uniform geologic feature forming dogma taught since the 1940's.

He failed to mention the Missoula flood, which turned into a witch hunt of a non-conforming geologist J. Bretz, who wasn't vindicated until 80 years later and after his death;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods

3 He failed to mention the well logs, showing that the planet had a different super oxygen charged atmosphere, fully capable of creating microcreature blooms not possible today. He also neglected to mention the warm climate fauna and mega flora, also found near the poles,(like Alaska) showing that the "world that then was, was destroyed by water", and was a completely different place than the remnant we observe and live in now. I could go on and on. Tropical fossils like Redwoods 10ft in dia in Antarctica and fruit still frozen in Siberia, giant shelled creatures and tropical ferns in Alaska. He didn't happen mention those.

4 He went on and on about water formed strata with fossils abounding, I agree they exist and add that formations of water deposited dead things pile over a mile high in places covering thousands of square miles, not exactly a local flood, correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrison_Formati...

(goes from Denver to the Dino beds in Utah. It's a turbitite,(high speed underwater mud flow). Their 'story' is dino was drowned crossing a river. Been there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_Nationa...

Whey are there no fossils in the Grand Canyon Supergroup if evolution made life? That's because evolution is a lie and God made the earth a "Very Good" place in the beginning, that was subsequently destroyed in a flood. That's what the rocks clearly speak. He is Almighty Creator.

5 He mentioned laminates, it's been disproved 40 years ago that those were not tree ring style annual accumulations, but formed by changing currents, as fossil fish eating smaller fish were found trapped within dozens of layers.

One can write a paper like this and claim thus and so, but it all falls apart when questioned by someone who knows the difference.

“I started out with nothing”

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and still got most of it left

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#94838
Jul 2, 2013
 

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CBOW wrote:
An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total ... Stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea."
To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death, when you don't know shit?"
And then she went back to reading her book.
I see that the little girl does not relate whether she knew sh|t or not, so what we have is the typical godbot CBOW making one rule for himself and another for everyone who does not think goddidit by magic.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#94839
Jul 2, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I noticed rightaway that the author omitted the number 1 evidence for a worldwide flood, the Great Unconformity that shows up all over the planet;
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXpaper like thisXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
One can write a paper like this and claim thus and so, but it all falls apart when questioned by someone who knows the difference.
You said it all in the end.

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