Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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“I have upset the hand of god”

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#94489
Jun 28, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
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There are two different parts of evolution.
Variation, which is random. And natural selection which is not random.
The variation part of evolution is random. The natural selection part is not.
Funny how it had the answer to its own question and then for some inexplicable reason lumped the two parts into one and asked how they could be both random and nonrandom.

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#94490
Jun 28, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Please elaborate your statement. I am unfamiliar with this contradiction.
You've only got to read back through previous comments from some of you "experts"

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#94491
Jun 28, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
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But science says 'the genetic variation on which "natural selection acts" may occur randomly, but "natural selection itself" is not random at all.
One more time for the slow of thinking. Variation is random. Natural selection is not.

For a working example of this look at what happens when a rookie plays a pro in poker. The rookie will go home broke. Sadder but wiser.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#94492
Jun 28, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
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And to take it a little farther, Science says the genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all.
How is something that may occur randomly not random at all?
Because it has a definitive reason. It is an unknown future variable, but hind sight can reveal it. Therefore it isn't random , but it is unpredictable.

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#94493
Jun 28, 2013
 

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A box contains 500 cards. The face of each card is one of five possible solid colors the backs are all the same. There are 100 red cards, 100 green cards, 100 blue cards, 100 yellow cards, and 100 orange cards. These are mixed in the box and 100 cards are drawn at random without looking at the faces of the cards. It should be equally likely to select any color card at random. Each color represents a phenotype within the population of cards. The yellow phenotype is particularly susceptible to predation and predators will target that color. So in turning over cards, you remove the yellow phenotype in a nonrandom manner leaving behind a population consisting of a random selection of the other four phenotypes. Be mindful, this is an analogy and not a perfect one, but it should suffice.

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#94494
Jun 28, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>One more time for the slow of thinking. Variation is random. Natural selection is not.

For a working example of this look at what happens when a rookie plays a pro in poker. The rookie will go home broke. Sadder but wiser.
Not always the case buddi at all

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#94495
Jun 28, 2013
 

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Aussiebob wrote:
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You've only got to read back through previous comments from some of you "experts"
No, I don't. I asked you for the evidence to support your claim. You rolled it out in such a casual way it shouldn't be difficult for you to back it up. Why the diversion?

This will either get nothing or more derision and diversion.

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#94496
Jun 28, 2013
 

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Some selection maybe predictable today though with super computers and variables that can be programed into it, but there is always wild cards that can screw up any hope of predicting selection.

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#94497
Jun 28, 2013
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
A box contains 500 cards. The face of each card is one of five possible solid colors the backs are all the same. There are 100 red cards, 100 green cards, 100 blue cards, 100 yellow cards, and 100 orange cards. These are mixed in the box and 100 cards are drawn at random without looking at the faces of the cards. It should be equally likely to select any color card at random. Each color represents a phenotype within the population of cards. The yellow phenotype is particularly susceptible to predation and predators will target that color. So in turning over cards, you remove the yellow phenotype in a nonrandom manner leaving behind a population consisting of a random selection of the other four phenotypes. Be mindful, this is an analogy and not a perfect one, but it should suffice.
I should have said predators are more likely to target that color. The predators are not taking cards at random when they are hunting prey (selecting cards). It should be noted that in the real world, predators are likely to capture cards of all five colors, but the bulk of the cards will be yellow. Natural selection can act on a population under localized or seasonal changes in the environment shift pressure from one phenotype/genotype to another depending on the prevailing conditions. An extreme alteration in the environment of the organism is not required. Also, remember that the environment includes all the biotic components exerting pressure on populations as well as abiotic components like temperature or water stress.

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#94498
Jun 28, 2013
 

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Aussiebob wrote:
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Not always the case buddi at all
I agree, not always the case. But in more than 9 times out of 10, it would be the case. And that is one reason that pros win. They know the odds. They know how to read the opponent. They can usually afford to gamble.

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#94499
Jun 28, 2013
 

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Aussiebob wrote:
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Not always the case buddi at all
It is an analogy not a claim of unbreakable fact. Sheesh!

It is a good one too. The cards (variation) are dealt at random and the players (selection pressure) act nonrandomly based on skill level and experience.

But don't let me interrupt. If you want to go on a rant about rookie poker players sometimes winning big, by all means, please do so. We don't see going off on meaningless tangents enough on this forum.

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#94500
Jun 28, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
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I agree, not always the case. But in more than 9 times out of 10, it would be the case. And that is one reason that pros win. They know the odds. They know how to read the opponent. They can usually afford to gamble.
Exactly. Nonrandom selection. Admittedly, his point does underscore that not all the susceptible organisms succumb to selection pressure, but enough that their genes are significantly reduced in the subsequent generation or generations depending on the duration of the pressure.

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#94501
Jun 28, 2013
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It is an analogy not a claim of unbreakable fact. Sheesh!
It is a good one too. The cards (variation) are dealt at random and the players (selection pressure) act nonrandomly based on skill level and experience.
But don't let me interrupt. If you want to go on a rant about rookie poker players sometimes winning big, by all means, please do so. We don't see going off on meaningless tangents enough on this forum.
That's one of the wild cards that can't be predicted.

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#94502
Jun 28, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, not always the case. But in more than 9 times out of 10, it would be the case. And that is one reason that pros win. They know the odds. They know how to read the opponent. They can usually afford to gamble.
I guess I did teach you a little bit on how they play cards didn't I? And it is more like 7 out of 10. I also don't see where if a amateur and a pro set down and played 10 different buy ins (10 mini tournaments) how could the pro win more than 9 out of 10 with out winning all 10?

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#94503
Jun 28, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> That's one of the wild cards that can't be predicted.
That's funny and very apt.

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#94504
Jun 29, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It is an analogy not a claim of unbreakable fact. Sheesh!

It is a good one too. The cards (variation) are dealt at random and the players (selection pressure) act nonrandomly based on skill level and experience.

But don't let me interrupt. If you want to go on a rant about rookie poker players sometimes winning big, by all means, please do so. We don't see going off on meaningless tangents enough on this forum.
Geez you talk alot of smack youngin

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#94505
Jun 29, 2013
 
Aussiebob wrote:
<quoted text>
Geez you talk alot of smack youngin
ROFL!!!
Still dodging my question about the contradictions you claim are in the theory of evolution I see.

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#94506
Jun 29, 2013
 
I see another example of the unpredictable going off on a meaningless tangent while ignoring the point of the analogy. That poker analogy really stirs up the anti-evolution crowd.

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#94507
Jun 29, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, atheism is become the state religion in America. Just sit in any high school biology classroom and try to engage in an honest debate about evolution. My daughter was openly ridiculed and yelled at for questioning that man evolved from apes. This is not "science"... It is indoctrination. Public education has become a farce.
Good on the biology teacher!

I hope your daughter learnt a valuable lesson: that tbkse Creationist arguments only work when engaging other creationist loons. When engaging someone with actual knowledge about the subject matter, those silly arguments fall flat on its face. You see? The doctrine you teach your kids is a total embarassment.

Perhaps it is tine for you to ask yourself a question:"what if I am wrong about this?". If you are, which anybody with half an education can tell you, then you are making your children look like fools.

“I Am No One Else”

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#94508
Jun 29, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
He states " My daughter was openly ridiculed and yelled at for questioning that man evolved from apes."
You reply with "That's because you have to be a total nut to question something which you know nothing about."
By that statement you support ridiculing children that have questions. That is sad.
An questioning something before you learn it is not curiosity nor a sign of sanity.

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