Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173403 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#93947 Jun 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what if there was no mistake made?
Good lord.

Even KK herself claimed I had misquoted her, whereas I actually had gone back and copy-pasted her exact statement. In other words, she had not written what she thought she had written. She had screwed up. Then argued to death with replaytime about it without ever going back and checking what she had actually written.

Added to that, she also explained the meaning she was trying to convey, which the original saying supports and her screwed up misquote would actually reverse.

Can we leave this alone now?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#93948 Jun 24, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, one link was to a cartoon. That does not matter. The science was correct in that cartoon. The other link I gave was the paper that the cartoon was based upon.
And you obviously did not watch even the cartoon. What a moron you are! The cartoon shows many of the intermediate steps. If you watch it you can see how it went from a simple port where material entered and existed the cell, to a gated port that only allowed material out, to a port that attached to other material. The attachment getting longer. The attachment with limited motion and finally a rotating shaft. All of the important steps are there.
The paper explains in much greater detail, but since you could not follow the very simplified cartoon, I seriously doubt if you could follow the paper.
But the Marks of this world will not be satisfied unless you show a new flagellum evolving all by itself right under their noses in the lab. Got a few million years to spare? Whoops, I just used the "mists of time" argument.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#93949 Jun 24, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The links you provided were imaginary man-made cartoons. I gave you 2 experiments, not cartoons. I suppose you performed neither because the outcome was obvious to any logical person, and proves evolution wrong and ID correct.
The motor never evolved, you have no intermediates nor a mechanism, only your faith. Ion charging the correct pole at the precise moment to get movement both fwd and reverse disproves mindless evolution and proves intelligent design. To make matters worse, the paper says no one can explain how it works but then tell the faithful it made itself in the same paragraph!
None of the class notes I listed had any experiments relating to evolution of the motor, not even close. Your and their answer for everything is always the mist's of time, lots of it. Then I showed that (according to the ref.) axial flagella existed in the earliest bacteria with no time to evolve, and you willfully ignored it.
Maybe Dawkins has the answer for you - mutations did it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =zaKryi3605gXX
Even ignoring the fact that the cartoon was merely an illustration of processes worked out in the papers also supplied, your approach is a failure.

Irreducible complexity as an argument will never be valid even in principle. So you (and Behe) are wasting your time with it.

As there is no possible way to find out and learn ALL the possible gradual pathways to a given structure, you can NEVER definitively claim that there isn't one. IDers always seem to assume a straight line from zero to X function, ignoring that there would have been different intermediate functions, and could have been any number of them for any possible reason. You cannot even in principle know all the possibilities, so you cannot make your claim.

There ARE ways to falsify evolution, but this is not one of them. And the ones that would work have so far found nothing. Evolution stands.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93951 Jun 24, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Recently. Evolution has never stood up, except with crutches.
There is no "Lying for Jesus" exception to the Ninth Commandment.

Lying like this is still a major sin for you.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93952 Jun 24, 2013
Mark this paper I am linking is far more than two experiments. You said you had two experiments. This paper takes the results of a whole slew of experiments. Unfortunately they used an abbreviation for Frequently Asked Questions and the site thought that I was using a bad word for homosexual men. So, do not click on my link. Instead between the double slashes ( "//" ) enter f. a. q. s. without the periods or spaces:

http://www.talkdesign.org//flagellum.html

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#93953 Jun 24, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Recently. Evolution has never stood up, except with crutches.
On the contrary, evolution is one of the greatest long distance runners in the scientific world, still leading the pack after 150 years even with religious nuts trying to trip it up for all that time.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93956 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Really, since 163 huh? Well, with lies like that, it will always lead your pack. Just not the scientific world. Evolution is like a paraplegic, it needs a wheelchair becomes it can not stand on it's own two feet. In ten yeas, atheist nuts will be calling evolution biology and biology evolution and hoping that we don't notice the change. The only thing that evolutionist have proven is that evolution theory is a transformer, it transforms from one lie to the next.
Why do creatards feel so threatened by evolution that they have to lie about it?

Evolution is almost universally accepted by scientists. When you look at all scientists as a whole it is believed by over 90% of them. When it comes to experts in the field, that is biologists, acceptance is over 99%.

That means to oppose it you have to be one of the nuts in the fringe.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#93957 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Really, since 163 huh? Well, with lies like that, it will always lead your pack. Just not the scientific world. Evolution is like a paraplegic, it needs a wheelchair becomes it can not stand on it's own two feet. In ten yeas, atheist nuts will be calling evolution biology and biology evolution and hoping that we don't notice the change. The only thing that evolutionist have proven is that evolution theory is a transformer, it transforms from one lie to the next.
163? Did you mean 1863?

Darwin published the first edition of Origin of the Species at the end of 1859. So yes, to be precise, for 153 years.

The theory has survived every challenge since, and its predictions have been verified in numerous ways, and no falsification attempt has succeeded.

The last serious scientific challenges to evolution were the problems of Earth's age which concerned Lord Kelvin because he could not see how the Sun could burn long enough, and the problem of gene blending which would wash out any adaptive advantages, which worried Darwin himself.

The discovery of radioactivity in 1896 solved the Earth age problem and Mendel's work on genetics (1866, rediscovered in 1900) solved the gene blending problem more than a century ago.

Scientific disputes since then have been within the framework of evolution itself with questions such as Haldane's dilemma and the Cambrian Explosion posed by evolutionary scientists and solved by them.

Of course, parasitical creationists like to ferret around these historical issues and using quote mining and selectively ignoring the full picture, try to pretend that they represent a challenge to evolution itself. Scientists merely laugh.

Creationism, especially the Young Earth kind, is more than figuratively brain dead, and its challenges to evolution consist of little more than denying the evidence and special pleading.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#93959 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Can you explain all of this in your own words, so we can see if you are not simply regurgitated stuff you could not properly chew on the first time.
You mean like you folks do with your bible?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#93960 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Really, since 163 huh? Well, with lies like that, it will always lead your pack. Just not the scientific world. Evolution is like a paraplegic, it needs a wheelchair becomes it can not stand on it's own two feet. In ten yeas, atheist nuts will be calling evolution biology and biology evolution and hoping that we don't notice the change. The only thing that evolutionist have proven is that evolution theory is a transformer, it transforms from one lie to the next.
I will assume that was a typo or an outright lie but thanks, I was food for a little researchÖ

The pre christian Greeks and Romans had the idea of descent with modification, i.e. an early comprehension of evolution.

Later the medieval theories fostered by christianity was that of spontaneous generation, which stated that living things can appear fully formed from inorganic matter. This deliberately limited concept prevented thinking and speculation about evolution or descent with modification.

In the mid 1700s Carolus Linnaeus, kicked off the modern understanding with his hybridisation experiments on plants. At the same time Darwins grandfather speculated that all life could a have a single common ancestor. A little later Immanuel Kant developed a concept that is relatively close to modern understanding and anticipated Darwinian thinking. Thomas Malthusís theories of population growth are what inspired both Darwin and Alfred Wallace to independently produce theories of natural selection.

The work of these pioneers fuelled one of the most researched branches of science, research that has now proven without doubt and in several independent ways and beyond any reasonable doubt that evolution happened, happens and can be observed happening now.

Just because you donít like it, or because it shows that a bunch of bronze age goat herders and escaped slaves did not have much understanding of science is besides the point.

In 10 years godbots will be calling faith, truth and truth, faith and hoping we donít notice the change, oh wait a moment, thatís already happened.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#93961 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Can you explain all of this in your own words, so we can see if you are not simply regurgitated stuff you could not properly chew on the first time.
ROFL!! This is coming from a guy whose avatar is the stereotypical Euro-Caucasian Jesus. Regurgitate some more church doctrine, Bonzo.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93962 Jun 25, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Can you explain all of this in your own words, so we can see if you are not simply regurgitated stuff you could not properly chew on the first time.
I did explain the video in my own words a couple of my posts before the one you quoted.

As others have pointed out, nice white Jesus.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#93963 Jun 25, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary, evolution is one of the greatest long distance runners in the scientific world, still leading the pack after 150 years even with religious nuts trying to trip it up for all that time.
What a joke...
Evolution is crashing by the minute.
The collapse of Lamarckism...
The failed junk DNA debacle...
The failed fossil record...
The collapse of genetic determinism...
The proven impossibility to create genetic information through mutations...
The utter lack of even a proposed mechanisms of creating genetic information...let alone absence of any evidence.
The impossibility of abiogenesis...
You are clinging on to a sinking ship...
You'd best follow the rats and jump off.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#93964 Jun 25, 2013
Hi all. Missed me any?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93965 Jun 25, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
What a joke...
Evolution is crashing by the minute.
What a maroon! Evolution is stronger every year.
The collapse of Lamarckism...
Lamarckism was never part of evolution idiot. Its collapse means nothing.
The failed junk DNA debacle...
The idea of Junk DNA is extremely healthy. Your misunderstanding of a few articles does not qualify as evidence.
The failed fossil record...
LMFAO!!!

The fossil record can only be explained via the theory of evolution. It is extremely successful. This was a true "How's That for Stupid?" moment.
The collapse of genetic determinism...
Never part of the theory of evolution in the manner that you believe. It has not "collasped".
The proven impossibility to create genetic information through mutations...
Another "How's That for Stupid?" moment! Two in one post!

Idiot, we have observed that sort of event in the laboratory. REPEATEDLY!!
The utter lack of even a proposed mechanisms of creating genetic information...let alone absence of any evidence.
We have a record! That is three "How's That for Stupid?" moments in one post!!

There are several known mechanisms. Simple mutation is only one of them.
The impossibility of abiogenesis...
I would almost count this as four.

You have never given even any evidence that abiogenesis is impossible. That along with many successful experiments shows that once again you are clueless.
You are clinging on to a sinking ship...
You'd best follow the rats and jump off.
Okay, that is definitely another "How's That for Stupid?" moment.

I lost count was that four or five completely idiotic, unsupported, proven wrong, statements in one post?
HTS

Englewood, CO

#93966 Jun 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never given even any evidence that abiogenesis is impossible. That along with many successful experiments shows that once again you are clueless.
<quoted text>
Okay, that is definitely another "How's That for Stupid?" moment.
I lost count was that four or five completely idiotic, unsupported, proven wrong, statements in one post?
What "many successful experiments?" Urey-Miller?..a collossal failure... You think that producing a few amino acids and sugars in a lab proves anything?
You are apprently grossly ignorant as to the complexity of life.
You can rant and spout off ad nauseum in the vain attempts to defend your evo-relgion. At the end of the day, you embrace a theory that is entirely unsupported by science.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#93967 Jun 25, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
Hi all. Missed me any?
Hey DF! Long time, no see!

Nah. Pretty much same old stuff.

HTS (as you can see) is still in unsupported assertion mode.

We **DO** have the return of another classic (whacked-out) poster on another thread.

Who?

I'll give you a hint:

"Girasas"

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#93969 Jun 25, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey DF! Long time, no see!
Nah. Pretty much same old stuff.
HTS (as you can see) is still in unsupported assertion mode.
We **DO** have the return of another classic (whacked-out) poster on another thread.
Who?
I'll give you a hint:
"Girasas"
Brenda??? Which thread?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#93970 Jun 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
...It seems that this site does not like to see the abbreviation for Frequently Asked Questions.
Really? What the faq is up with that?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93971 Jun 25, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
Hi all. Missed me any?
Nice to see you again! Welcome back.

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