Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223358 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#93517 Jun 20, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Actually it was both but neither, both were proven wrong later
by research , It was intelligent design that was proven to be creationism repackaged. It was proven what evidence Behe used was mislabeled as theory , because it only met the criteria of hypothesis. The flagellum , irreducible complexity and the blood clot factor were shown to be wrong independently.
Which were the components of the package of ID they pushed as theory, but was clearly hypothesis.
But ID was proven to be just rewashed christian science or creationism.
Which, ironically, was the entire point of the trial in the first place.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#93518 Jun 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest looking over the diagram of the ion motor more closely. Of note are the bearing surfaces and the fixed stator poles. These stators are oriented in perfect azimuth positions surrounding the rotating rod that incorporates rotor plates of like ion charges.
To initiate rotation, the stators (the same designation in all modern electric motors) are charged to create a like repelling charge acting on the rotating rod. This charge must also be turned off and then reapplied to the next adjacent stator pole in perfect order to get propelling rotation. This Ion charge is applied to each pole faster to get more RPM, up to 100,000 has been observed. Reversal can also be applied. Any mixup and the whole thing is worthless. So how did a sperm or e coli creature decide to evolve this super compact and complex motor all on its own?
http://www.annualreviews.org/eprint/cDJrS190m...
Um, what does this have to do with the price of rice in China?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#93519 Jun 21, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't need a doctor to determine common sense to me. With all you folks so upset about this, I am sure this fellow is very popular dishing out his sedative rhetoric on this one, a sedative I don't need.
Hey, you brought him up, pal. Don't get pissy because you've made yourself look stupid.

Is relativity common sense? Is quantum physics?

Let's not forget that spontaneous generation was once common sense.
SBT wrote:
The complexity and operation is flatout unexplainable in evolutionary terms. I showed this to a group of 50 college students and they all laughed hysterically at the absurdity of evolution involved here.
Suuuuuure you did. Bible college?
SBT wrote:
It's an ion powered axial motor for heaven's sake. Millions are being spent studying potential use's in micro-engineering applications.
And by the way, Berg's "billions" YO timeline doesn't sync well with the simple to complex evo biological time line does it. Wow, the most complex working device in the world at the bottom of the evo tree, how amazing!
You really think a bacterium is more complete than an entire human being? No wonder you're so confused.
SBT wrote:
Add enough time and anything is possible or believable, just throw out big time numbers and presto, a micro-engine pops out of nowhere, but at the wrong nowhere!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evol...
There you go again. Citing stuff that says you're wrong. Well done.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#93520 Jun 21, 2013
Complex!(not complete)

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#93522 Jun 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
For Pete's sake, read the entire paper that YOU brought up.
But then they couldn't pretend it supports their idiotic "arguments."

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#93523 Jun 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
For Pete's sake, read the entire paper that YOU brought up.
Dr. Berg states in this really interesting and well written article -

"Thus, the flagellar motor is the output organelle of a remarkable sensory system, the components of which have been honed to perfection by billions of years of evolution."

"The bacterial flagellar motor is a nanotechnological marvel, no more than 50 nm in diameter, built from about 20 different kinds of parts. It spins clockwise (CW) or counterclockwise (CCW)"

I would say Dr. Berg contradicted himself here, as the first bacteria at the bottom of the evolutionary scale has a rotary flagella, so where were the billions of years of evolution that made it? The time scale goalposts need to move again to for the magic of evolution to make what it needs, how convenient, again. 20 years ago we were @ 1 bill, now 3.6, now???

"a nanotechnological marvel", from the beginning??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote

http://www.annualreviews.org/eprint/cDJrS190m...

Interesting word Dr. Berg uses - "Nanotechnological".

I just wonder how such an age statement made it past peer review??!! Easy, just add "Evolution" to a paper's title or once in the text and all is well, then one can get on with the real science and lab work which seems exceptional to me in his fine paper. Looking over other papers Dr. Berg has written and his class notes I found little or nothing mentioned about the evolution of this "nanotechnological marvel".

Not picking a fight, just making a point - I did read the paper and sent the links supporting my logic.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#93524 Jun 21, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. Berg states in this really interesting and well written article -
"Thus, the flagellar motor is the output organelle of a remarkable sensory system, the components of which have been honed to perfection by billions of years of evolution."
"The bacterial flagellar motor is a nanotechnological marvel, no more than 50 nm in diameter, built from about 20 different kinds of parts. It spins clockwise (CW) or counterclockwise (CCW)"
I would say Dr. Berg contradicted himself here, as the first bacteria at the bottom of the evolutionary scale has a rotary flagella, so where were the billions of years of evolution that made it? The time scale goalposts need to move again to for the magic of evolution to make what it needs, how convenient, again. 20 years ago we were @ 1 bill, now 3.6, now???
"a nanotechnological marvel", from the beginning??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote
http://www.annualreviews.org/eprint/cDJrS190m...
Interesting word Dr. Berg uses - "Nanotechnological".
I just wonder how such an age statement made it past peer review??!! Easy, just add "Evolution" to a paper's title or once in the text and all is well, then one can get on with the real science and lab work which seems exceptional to me in his fine paper. Looking over other papers Dr. Berg has written and his class notes I found little or nothing mentioned about the evolution of this "nanotechnological marvel".
Not picking a fight, just making a point - I did read the paper and sent the links supporting my logic.
You do realize that bacterial flagellum has existed for billions of years but has many different forms, and the motorized version exists in newer forms than the billions of year old versions?

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#93525 Jun 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, you brought him up, pal. Don't get pissy because you've made yourself look stupid.
Is relativity common sense? Is quantum physics?
Let's not forget that spontaneous generation was once common sense.
<quoted text>
Suuuuuure you did. Bible college?
<quoted text>
You really think a bacterium is more complete than an entire human being? No wonder you're so confused.
<quoted text>
There you go again. Citing stuff that says you're wrong. Well done.
Common sense doesn't seem to mean what it used to mean. These days it doesn't appear to be too common or make much sense.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93526 Jun 21, 2013
I know I posted a illustrated video that explains how the flagellum evolved, SBT even commented about it here and called it a cartoon. He didn't seem to like the lack of detail. I then linked the paper that the simplified "cartoon" was based upon and it seems that it went over SBT's head.

Perhaps I need to post it again.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#93527 Jun 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
For Pete's sake, read the entire paper that YOU brought up.
Try biochem course 141 - "Prokaryote Bacterium"; (Wiki says they go back 3.6 BY, out of the sky number)

http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/courses/bio141/lecg...

Figure 1, your self made, complete and working Proton Motor made per the DNA instructions in the above creature that wiki says was here 3.6 BY ago;
http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/courses/bio141/lecg...

See it work;
http://www.arn.org/docs/mm/flag_dithani.htm

See them swim;


Using the age trump-card to explain away my point is a gross oversimplification, and add the claimed self-assemblage of DNA (MB or even GB of it) takes a greater faith than mine. This tiny creature is a colossal enigma for evolutionists.

And sorry, the guys came from a large state university and had not been brainwashed yet. Now their inoculated, as complexity = design, design = intelligence. Reason trumps the magic time card.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93528 Jun 21, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Try biochem course 141 - "Prokaryote Bacterium"; (Wiki says they go back 3.6 BY, out of the sky number)
http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/courses/bio141/lecg...
Figure 1, your self made, complete and working Proton Motor made per the DNA instructions in the above creature that wiki says was here 3.6 BY ago;
http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/courses/bio141/lecg...
See it work;
http://www.arn.org/docs/mm/flag_dithani.htm
See them swim;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Ey7Emmddf7YXX
Using the age trump-card to explain away my point is a gross oversimplification, and add the claimed self-assemblage of DNA (MB or even GB of it) takes a greater faith than mine. This tiny creature is a colossal enigma for evolutionists.
And sorry, the guys came from a large state university and had not been brainwashed yet. Now their inoculated, as complexity = design, design = intelligence. Reason trumps the magic time card.
You seem to have difficulty understanding that the rotor evolved.

What parts are you having problems with?

I gave you two links that showed how it evolved, you gave lip service for one and seem to have avoided the other.
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93529 Jun 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
When I was a kid I had a problem with the "one true church", They all seemed to claim they were it. Also never understood why we were supposed to eat Jesus and drink his blood, understanding the truth about that...doesn't help. The creation story, well that's a story alright, so is exodus I'll stop at that.
Basically I came to the conclusion, nobody in religion knew wth they were talking about, and don't even the real reasons they do things in it. They are confused brainwashed clowns trained to go to the circus and jump through hoops. Not that they are all bad or all bad people, some of them are the best people. Just confused and believe things that aren't true, and do things they have really no idea why.
Just turns out some of us , just aren't cut out for this ridiculous behavior. After all we all know virgins don't get pregnant without a daddy doing something.
I would just like to say hello everyone how was your week? mine was alright. this shall be the first thing i will answer.
*ahem*
You were brainwashed by the Catholics. I mean seriously the bible says that they REPRESENT the body and blood of christ not that it was the body of christ.
also so you are saying that a god that created the universe and wouldn't know how to place an embryo into a human. please for him its probably easier than us replacing a graphics card on a computer. He is god after all.
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93530 Jun 21, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
But then they couldn't pretend it supports their idiotic "arguments."
I don't want to hear that from someone who doesn't even LOOK at the arguments. bet you you didn't even watch half of the first video I gave you last week. Thought so.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#93531 Jun 21, 2013
Dinoeater wrote:
<quoted text>
I would just like to say hello everyone how was your week? mine was alright. this shall be the first thing i will answer.
*ahem*
You were brainwashed by the Catholics. I mean seriously the bible says that they REPRESENT the body and blood of christ not that it was the body of christ.
also so you are saying that a god that created the universe and wouldn't know how to place an embryo into a human. please for him its probably easier than us replacing a graphics card on a computer. He is god after all.
Nope not Catholics, and I understand how female are impregnated by natural and unnatural means.
But just used a few of the dozens of idiotic stories.
Now try explaining a talking snake.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#93532 Jun 21, 2013
Dinoeater, what video did you link?
Was it by someone who has already been shown to be a liar?
I might watch your video if you watch one that I pick out for you.
I am getting tired of creatards that are all words and no action.
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93533 Jun 21, 2013
It was from last week here i'll post it again it was about health:
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/c/7/Life%20at%20...
oh and while i was waiting for someone to answer i came up with something funny which ill post next:
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93534 Jun 21, 2013
well while i wait for someone to answer I'm going to ramble about random things here.
evolution cannot happen because if we originated from monkeys then we would have the ability to mate with them. hmm how did I come up with this?
and if all creatures came from a common ancestor why can't we mate with each other why is there no birdmen, horsemen, and fishmen. why? why cant we fly or breathe under water or gallop through prairies. did that single cell organism have a brain? and said hey it would be bad if these creatures combine to form a super creature so that single cell organism decided to evolve into species that couldn't combine with each other.(awww I really wanted to fly.)
(Just to remind you i just created this out of boredom this is not supposed to be an argument it is for entertainment purposes only)
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93535 Jun 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Nope not Catholics, and I understand how female are impregnated by natural and unnatural means.
But just used a few of the dozens of idiotic stories.
Now try explaining a talking snake.
Easy it wasn't the snake that talked the snake was possessed by the devil which spoke THROUGH the snake.
Dinoeater

Clifton, NJ

#93536 Jun 21, 2013
Oh and when a person hi it is polite to say hi to them back.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#93537 Jun 21, 2013
Dinoeater wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy it wasn't the snake that talked the snake was possessed by the devil which spoke THROUGH the snake.
did the devil give the snake vocal cords and a larynx for a brief period of time then?

oh, i forgot the devil is a proven myth...doesn't even warrant a discussion...

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