Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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87,681 - 87,700 of 112,846 Comments Last updated 44 min ago
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92649
Jun 14, 2013
 

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FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>He gave every living thing instructions to be fruitful and to multiply after their own kind and thats it.
If by "after their own kind" you mean they don't violate nested hierarchies, I would agree.

Other than that though I'd say you know very little about God's creation because you're too busy idolizing an old book instead of paying attention to reality.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92650
Jun 14, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Why in your mind is nature limited to creating live things?
He didn't say it was. Nature created everything that is not artificial.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Is fire self reproductive?
Is lighting reproductive?
Is diamonds reproductive?
You can see where this is going I hope.
Way ahead of ya. Notice how you are using the old bait-and-switch method, referring to biological organisms, physical/chemical reactions and non-replicating artificial objects.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Science can't measure complexity?
Wow it use to be able to. What happened? Is a bike to complex for something that created man?
Of course complexity can be measured by science. Creationists can't. That's the difference.

Creationists think the issue is about "complexity", assuming nature can only make simple things and designers can only make complex things. If that is the case then creationists need to explain exactly how "complexity" is measured, what the demarcation line is between "designed" and "non-designed", and how that demarcation line was determined in an objective manner via the scientific method. Once THAT is done they need to propose the mechanisms used for which particular "designs" and evidence of them. Of course to go with all that you would need scientific evidence that this "designer" of yours exists in the first place.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92651
Jun 14, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Not why would it its why didn't it?
It created flowers for the Bees.
Flowers were first.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
It created oceans for the fish.
Oceans came first.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
It created air for us.
Air came first.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
It created the Sun and put the earth just far enough away from it.
Same with other solar systems. And plenty of planets not in the life zone.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
It created light for our eyes to work.
Life adapted to light.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Why not a bike?
Because it's artificial and cannot be created via chemical means.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92652
Jun 14, 2013
 

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GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
I am just going by what several evolutionists said which was "nature does not create"! SO I gave examples of how nature does create.
That's fine by me.(shrug) In that case it demonstrates that creation does not necessarily require an intelligence behind it. Fundies say otherwise. So instead of backing up their position they say why can't nature make artificial objects that are not produced naturally?

“Robert Stevens”

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Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#92653
Jun 14, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you have to come to terms with the fact that christians have historically killed more than all others combined.
Yes, I have, and that is one reason I am a Pagan, but still I would take Christian leadership over Atheist leadership. This is where you guys belong. Here online.

“See how you are?”

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Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#92654
Jun 14, 2013
 

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GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually my CO2 and poo (odd choice but you picked it)is and is not man made. Now we can say yes it is being I am a product of other humans and that I make the CO2 as I breath out for it is a breakdown of chemicals in my body and then exchanges in my lungs with O2 so I can live and survive and I make poo as waste of my food after it takes out the nutrients I need to live. But intelligence and science both have to work for either of that to happen. It does not just happen for the heck of it. But lets look at CO2 and O2 with plants. It is not man made for the plants take in natural CO2 and naturally create O2.
So by this example you give you are not backing science very well for it is man made. Nothing man makes if perfect. It all has flaws somewhere or another.
Ah, I see that it was Tzar that was going on about 'naturally occuring' 747's and bikes. My bad.
Poo (I tried to choose an inoffensive term) and exhaled CO2 are natural products of biological processes. The processes can be intelligently and scientifically described, but they do not work BECAUSE of intelligence or study (science). Neither does the accumulation and discharge of atmospheric electrons, a supercell vortex, a tropical cyclone, airborne ice crystals, calcite deposits in caves, deposition and burial of organic materials, atmospheric currents and water vapor, charged particles interacting with the magnetosphere and atmospheric gasses, fusion of elements and resultant molecular compounds....
AKA
"lightning, tornados, hurricanes, snow, rain, stalagmites, stalactites, coal, oil, natural gas, wind, clouds, northern lights, gold, silver. diamonds, minerals, chemicals..."

“I started out with nothing”

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and still got most of it left

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#92655
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I have, and that is one reason I am a Pagan, but still I would take Christian leadership over Atheist leadership. This is where you guys belong. Here online.
Do you realise the hypocrisy in making such a statement online?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#92656
Jun 14, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you realise the hypocrisy in making such a statement online?
One wonders whether Robert has ever heard of, say, Sweden...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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Jun 14, 2013
 

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GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
So in the same perspective of your thinking, then all evolutionist should have to be required to go sit and listen to the sermons at the churches.
No need in this scenario, for mandatory evolution classes in churches are DUE to mandatory creationism classes in public schools.

However since no-one is forcing evolution in churches then no-one should force religion in public school science classes.

1 - Religion is not science.

2 - It's illegal to be promoted in public schools. But creationists don't care because they think that making USA Christian will bring Jesus back along with the apocalypse. This is why they hate education.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92658
Jun 14, 2013
 

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GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
And to be fair. Religion should be taught in a church where people can choose to go. Maybe evolution should be treated that same way. For real many college students have to take classes that does not pertain to what they are studying but yet they are required classes. I mean for real if a person is going to school to study biophysics he may be required to take a bowling class for example, I believe they call that a leisure class. Well hell he learned leisure when he was in high school lol. If a person is going to be a English teacher why should he be required to take an evolution class to get his degree? Classes that teach evolution should be an option, not a required class.
Evolution is NOT a required class. Don't want your kid to learn about science? Take them out of science class. You can homeschool your kids. Or send them to private school where they show the Flinstones as a science documentary. Or write a letter to your principle and tell them you don't want them to learn that nasty satanic atheist science stuff so your kid doesn't have to attend that class. Of course they will fail said class since they aren't doing the work that all the other kids are.

Unfortunately creationists aren't taking those options. Instead they are pushing for the Flinstones being as valid as biology in science classes. This isn't hurting just their own kid's education, which they have every right to do, but everyone else's as well by pushing known lies and calling it "science". This is not only monumentally stupid and damaging to science education, but also violates religious freedom as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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Jun 14, 2013
 

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GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is not only evolution. There is so much more to science that evolution is just a little drop in the bucket. If a person is studying something that has nothing to do with neither religion or evolution then they should not be required to study about them. If a religious scientist teaches you how to dissect a frog he will teach you the same way a evolution scientists will. I remember in school and college, in science, biology, microbiology, anatomy ect ect we didn't talk about religion or evolution.
Correct. Evolution only takes up a third of science (biology). The other two thirds are made up by chemistry and physics.

Creationists don't like them either and are trying to replace them also with invisible Jewmagic.

Now do you see our problem?
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post, the puddle gooist sect has a set of beliefs, and they are beliefs, concerning the cause of the universe, its nature ,and its purpose and anyone who disagees with their beliefs will be excommunicated, and reviled.
Stay out of our terf then. It's not like you're interested in the subject anyway.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#92660
Jun 14, 2013
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>To be fair, a person is usually ridiculed when they claim a degree that doesn't fit the content of their posts. For example, this character HTS claims to have a medical degree, but the content of his/her posts don't show much actual knowledge of science. I would expect someone with a medical degree to maintain at least that.
They also get ridiculed if they get caught lying or if they constantly propose non-scientific concepts in scientific contexts.

Which is why HTS gets it with both barrels.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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Jun 14, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I have, and that is one reason I am a Pagan, but still I would take Christian leadership over Atheist leadership. This is where you guys belong. Here online.
Even better than an atheist state or a theist state would be a secular state, one that doesn't push one or the other, nay? Ya know, something groovy like say, the Constitution of the United States of America that allows freedom of and freedom from religion for all.

Of course if it's theocracy you prefer there are some countries who cater to that too. Might I suggest Iran?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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Lakeland, FL

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#92662
Jun 14, 2013
 

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The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not why would it its why didn't it?
It created flowers for the Bees.
It created oceans for the fish.
It created air for us.
It created the Sun and put the earth just far enough away from it.
It created light for our eyes to work.
Why not a bike?
Probably so stupid people could ask stupid questions like this.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#92663
Jun 14, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
If by "after their own kind" you mean they don't violate nested hierarchies, I would agree.
Other than that though I'd say you know very little about God's creation because you're too busy idolizing an old book instead of paying attention to reality.
That seems to sum it up. The whole of Christianity doesn't rest on theology, but on a book written by numerous authors over hundreds of years, with stories borrowed from oral tradition and other cultures, translated and re-translated and then collated and reorganized by man resulting in numerous different versions.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#92664
Jun 14, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
They also get ridiculed if they get caught lying or if they constantly propose non-scientific concepts in scientific contexts.
Which is why HTS gets it with both barrels.(shrug)
He does have all his baseless covered doesn't he.
drinK The hivE

New York, NY

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#92665
Jun 14, 2013
 

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German' Have A Word - "Geist" Which Is Pretty Much A Combination Of The 2 English Words - "Spirit" And "Ghost"...

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnu2x9Jurp1...

“I Am No One Else”

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#92666
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I have, and that is one reason I am a Pagan, but still I would take Christian leadership over Atheist leadership. This is where you guys belong. Here online.
So you would rather have people who support stoning anyone, including you, that opposes them. Someone who supports stoning children, slavery, and refuses to allow science to progress just because of superstitions. That makes you no better than they are.

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Jun 14, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>Probably so stupid people could ask stupid questions like this.
Can I see the study backing this hypotheses up?

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Jun 14, 2013
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>So you would rather have people who support stoning anyone, including you, that opposes them. Someone who supports stoning children, slavery, and refuses to allow science to progress just because of superstitions. That makes you no better than they are.
2 Kings 21:6 ESV

And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.

2Chronicles 33:6 ESV

And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.

Deuteronomy 18:10 ESV

There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer

////////::

I would stone them also.

But you think they don't deserve that you think that's normal behavior to burn children alive to worship Satan.

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