Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

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#92621 Jun 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a silly argument, but to be fair if you want to carry it to its logical conclusion, since children are required to go to school in a correct analogy the members of your church would be forced to attend the evolution class.
Good point. I failed to think about that little attendance requirement. That might make it more interesting. It might cause a drop in the steadfast adherence to demanding religion be taught in a science class.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92622 Jun 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a silly argument, but to be fair if you want to carry it to its logical conclusion, since children are required to go to school in a correct analogy the members of your church would be forced to attend the evolution class.
And to be fair. Religion should be taught in a church where people can choose to go. Maybe evolution should be treated that same way. For real many college students have to take classes that does not pertain to what they are studying but yet they are required classes. I mean for real if a person is going to school to study biophysics he may be required to take a bowling class for example, I believe they call that a leisure class. Well hell he learned leisure when he was in high school lol. If a person is going to be a English teacher why should he be required to take an evolution class to get his degree? Classes that teach evolution should be an option, not a required class.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#92623 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
So in the same perspective of your thinking, then all evolutionist should have to be required to go sit and listen to the sermons at the churches.
Nope, I wasn't the one proposing the bad analog in the first place.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92624 Jun 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I wasn't the one proposing the bad analog in the first place.
I wasn't either. Dan was.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#92625 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
And to be fair. Religion should be taught in a church where people can choose to go. Maybe evolution should be treated that same way. For real many college students have to take classes that does not pertain to what they are studying but yet they are required classes. I mean for real if a person is going to school to study biophysics he may be required to take a bowling class for example, I believe they call that a leisure class. Well hell he learned leisure when he was in high school lol. If a person is going to be a English teacher why should he be required to take an evolution class to get his degree? Classes that teach evolution should be an option, not a required class.
It is simple. College is not mandatory. College is supposed to provide an education. Why shouldn't a person be introduced to the facts of science. This is just a manifestation of the same old fear. If they actually learn something, they may think the Bible really is just a series of allegories. There are choices in advanced education. I no some of the Taliban-like religious schools are happy to turn out under-educated sheep.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#92626 Jun 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I wasn't the one proposing the bad analog in the first place.
Yes, he is right, that would be mine.

He did jump on it like it was made of ham though.

I am not so sure it is a bad analog, despite it being a logical alternative to the more popular version, it certainly isn't a viable or sound analog.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#92627 Jun 13, 2013
Here is what is wrong with the whole analogy. Attendance at schools of some sort is mandatory up to a certain age. The schools have a responsibility to give the students a balanced education. That balanced education may very well include a biology class and in reality you cannot teach proper biology without evolution. If a parent can't handle their children being taught reality I don't have too much compassion for them. If it is that serious they can always pay for private school.

Now religion on the other hand IS optional. So forcing things in an optional environment is a contradiction in terms.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#92628 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
And to be fair. Religion should be taught in a church where people can choose to go. Maybe evolution should be treated that same way. For real many college students have to take classes that does not pertain to what they are studying but yet they are required classes. I mean for real if a person is going to school to study biophysics he may be required to take a bowling class for example, I believe they call that a leisure class. Well hell he learned leisure when he was in high school lol. If a person is going to be a English teacher why should he be required to take an evolution class to get his degree? Classes that teach evolution should be an option, not a required class.
I took bowling as an undergrad. It was fun and I learned something.

I don't know of any English degree programs that require a class in evolution as part of the degree. That sounds like a really good school.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#92629 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
religion - noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects
Now it is mainly shoved upon creationists for their beliefs in a superhuman agency(God), usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Good post, the puddle gooist sect has a set of beliefs, and they are beliefs, concerning the cause of the universe, its nature ,and its purpose and anyone who disagees with their beliefs will be excommunicated, and reviled.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92630 Jun 13, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It is simple. College is not mandatory. College is supposed to provide an education. Why shouldn't a person be introduced to the facts of science. This is just a manifestation of the same old fear. If they actually learn something, they may think the Bible really is just a series of allegories. There are choices in advanced education. I no some of the Taliban-like religious schools are happy to turn out under-educated sheep.


Science is not only evolution. There is so much more to science that evolution is just a little drop in the bucket. If a person is studying something that has nothing to do with neither religion or evolution then they should not be required to study about them. If a religious scientist teaches you how to dissect a frog he will teach you the same way a evolution scientists will. I remember in school and college, in science, biology, microbiology, anatomy ect ect we didn't talk about religion or evolution.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92631 Jun 13, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I took bowling as an undergrad. It was fun and I learned something.
I don't know of any English degree programs that require a class in evolution as part of the degree. That sounds like a really good school.
I don't either. I just threw that out there for many require certain classes before you can get your degree.

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#92632 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
So in the same perspective of your thinking, then all evolutionist should have to be required to go sit and listen to the sermons at the churches.
I already do that.

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#92633 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is not only evolution. There is so much more to science that evolution is just a little drop in the bucket. If a person is studying something that has nothing to do with neither religion or evolution then they should not be required to study about them. If a religious scientist teaches you how to dissect a frog he will teach you the same way a evolution scientists will. I remember in school and college, in science, biology, microbiology, anatomy ect ect we didn't talk about religion or evolution.
Actually, evolution isn't a drop in the bucket considering it is the foundation of modern biology.

I suppose when you are on the board of the university or college of your choice you can make that case.

What makes you think those frog dissectors aren't one in the same. You are making a classic mistake. Science does not equal atheism and atheism does not need science. You have heard the anti-evolution line for so long it has become part of your foundation.

That must have been a very, very long time ago. Evolution was taught and discussed in my biology classes. Religion didn't come up much since it was a science curriculum.

A well rounded education does and should include a variety of coursework in a number of different areas. Perhaps instead of as you suggest, more students took science courses, there wouldn't be room for scared, ignorant people to fabricate a fictional controversy.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92634 Jun 13, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, evolution isn't a drop in the bucket considering it is the foundation of modern biology.
I suppose when you are on the board of the university or college of your choice you can make that case.
What makes you think those frog dissectors aren't one in the same. You are making a classic mistake. Science does not equal atheism and atheism does not need science. You have heard the anti-evolution line for so long it has become part of your foundation.
That must have been a very, very long time ago. Evolution was taught and discussed in my biology classes. Religion didn't come up much since it was a science curriculum.
A well rounded education does and should include a variety of coursework in a number of different areas. Perhaps instead of as you suggest, more students took science courses, there wouldn't be room for scared, ignorant people to fabricate a fictional controversy.
Not a very very long time ago, but it was long ago. 20 years ago I graduated with my second masters. I went into college right out of high school. I am now 48 and still study and learn everyday, many things I do require yearly CEU's(to make sure we are up-to-date). I don't see it as a natter of being scared, I see it as what they believe and I am not one that thinks someone should be told what they believe is wrong and that they should change what they believe.

Just a short list of sciences but not all require knowing about evolution.
Botany, Chemistry, Mineralogy, Biology, Astronomy, Geology, Microbiology, Paleontology, Medicine, Pathology, Linguistics, Entomology, Seismology, Forestry, Ichthyology.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92635 Jun 13, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, you're a religious nut, many of you idiots come here trying to claim you are not religious, yet every single one eventually slips up and gets outed by their own posts. I'm wagering you're a sock of one of those.
"a sock of one of those" What does that actually mean? lol

“What can I do to get the Topix”

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#92636 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a very very long time ago, but it was long ago. 20 years ago I graduated with my second masters. I went into college right out of high school. I am now 48 and still study and learn everyday, many things I do require yearly CEU's(to make sure we are up-to-date). I don't see it as a natter of being scared, I see it as what they believe and I am not one that thinks someone should be told what they believe is wrong and that they should change what they believe.
Just a short list of sciences but not all require knowing about evolution.
Botany, Chemistry, Mineralogy, Biology, Astronomy, Geology, Microbiology, Paleontology, Medicine, Pathology, Linguistics, Entomology, Seismology, Forestry, Ichthyology.
In order to learn science such as those you list, you must have a solid, basic understanding of the underlying principles which includes the theory of evolution. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but you won't understand biology and a vast number of sciences very well or at all without that. People (including scientists) may tell other people (including scientists) to believe or not believe a whole lot of things, but it isn't part of the structure of science. However, if you say that the biblical flood is real, there is nothing in science to support that. If you say that Adam and Eve were the first people, there is nothing in science to support that. If you say that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, there is nothing in science to support that. Science has large bodies of evidence that would not exist if a flood occurred. Science has large bodies of evidence that show human existence back millions of years to before we were human. Science has large bodies of evidence that show that the Earth is over four billion years old and the universe may at least be 13 billion years old. These bodies of evidence are growing by the hour, by the day, by the week, by the year. What do you propose be done? Should we just ignore all these facts as if they don't exist and crawl back into the Bronze age? Be my guest. I am staying here.

Surely you must have read other posts on here by creationists. Telling others what to believe is their stock in trade. You do it yourself in a round about way since you started posting. You seem to have some issue with why others are posting here and how they spend their time. You have made no effort to conceal your derision towards at least some of the posters on here. That is telling others what they believe is wrong.

What are your degrees in? Didn't you mention being a retired Marine? Having been raised by a Marine, I have a sentimentality for that branch of the service. My younger brother and I were taught how to defend ourselves from a bayonet attack when we were about 9 or 10 years old. It was great fun then, but I haven't had any call for that skill to date. We used to listen studiously to stories of my father's service in WWII and Korea. Some of them were about those wars as well.

“God of War”

Level 8

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Location hidden

#92637 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
"a sock of one of those" What does that actually mean? lol
A person with multiple accounts who is known by a name , switches accounts to a sock account and is a brand new person.
There are lots of so called "believers" who do this, and is just another form of dishonesty they embrace.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#92638 Jun 13, 2013
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
"a sock of one of those" What does that actually mean? lol
When you have other registered names besides the one you use most or when an unregistered person registers as if they are new here or while continuing to post unregistered. It is no effort at all to do this. Topix is very friendly to the practice. I have a stalker that followed me all the way from an obscure thread on Missouri politics to this forum. He has had one registered name banned for threats and has at least four others as well as posting unregistered. I find him amusing because he acts like he invented the technique and is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. My registered name is the only one I use, but it started out as a tribute to a guy pretending to be a number of different people. However, there are a number of benign socks on Topix as well. People that register multiple times to replay the Topix game for instance or make a joke of it or forget their password. So like anything it has a good side and a bad side depending on the user.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92639 Jun 13, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>In order to learn science such as those you list, you must have a solid, basic understanding of the underlying principles which includes the theory of evolution. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but you won't understand biology and a vast number of sciences very well or at all without that. People (including scientists) may tell other people (including scientists) to believe or not believe a whole lot of things, but it isn't part of the structure of science. However, if you say that the biblical flood is real, there is nothing in science to support that. If you say that Adam and Eve were the first people, there is nothing in science to support that. If you say that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, there is nothing in science to support that. Science has large bodies of evidence that would not exist if a flood occurred. Science has large bodies of evidence that show human existence back millions of years to before we were human. Science has large bodies of evidence that show that the Earth is over four billion years old and the universe may at least be 13 billion years old. These bodies of evidence are growing by the hour, by the day, by the week, by the year. What do you propose be done? Should we just ignore all these facts as if they don't exist and crawl back into the Bronze age? Be my guest. I am staying here.
Surely you must have read other posts on here by creationists. Telling others what to believe is their stock in trade. You do it yourself in a round about way since you started posting. You seem to have some issue with why others are posting here and how they spend their time. You have made no effort to conceal your derision towards at least some of the posters on here. That is telling others what they believe is wrong.
What are your degrees in? Didn't you mention being a retired Marine? Having been raised by a Marine, I have a sentimentality for that branch of the service. My younger brother and I were taught how to defend ourselves from a bayonet attack when we were about 9 or 10 years old. It was great fun then, but I haven't had any call for that skill to date. We used to listen studiously to stories of my father's service in WWII and Korea. Some of them were about those wars as well.
Yes I know what you are saying. Science is science. And yes I see it from both side. Yes I am a retired Marine. Went to school during my down downtime. You have to have a back up plan for when you are no longer in the service. Just speaking comically the best defense for a bayonet attack is a bullet lol. But yes again I know what you mean for many times hand to hand has to be done even if by choice to keep covert. My degrees, well I have seen here no matter what a person says he does or holds degrees in he is ridiculed and called a liar ect ect so that I will keep to myself.

“What's your story? Nevermind.”

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

#92640 Jun 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
A person with multiple accounts who is known by a name , switches accounts to a sock account and is a brand new person.
There are lots of so called "believers" who do this, and is just another form of dishonesty they embrace.
Thank you. I had never heard that. I will keep that in mind.

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