Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 210232 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#91183 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is from your site.
"No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilized—and the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesus—multiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face."
But there are examples
Methchild Flury-Lemberg, a leading authority on historic textiles and the former curator of Switzerland’s Abegg Foundation Textile Museum, has reported strong similarities between the Shroud’s fabric and fragments of cloth produced in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago. According to Flury-Lemberg, the cloth’s finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Flury-Lemberg’s detailed analysis of the Shroud’s fabric – an exceptionally fine quality, z-twist, 3-over-1-herringbone patterned linen cloth – is evidence that it was manufactured in the Middle East on a Roman-period Egyptian or Syrian loom.
so obviously your source is incorrect.
As far as other cloths,I believe the separate face cloth is known as the Sudarium Of Oveido.
Hogwash , there is ONLY ONE known 1st century burial shroud in existence.

Your shroud it doesn't match either Jewish Tradition , or the only real identified shroud from the period. It was born a fake and announced a fake in the 14th century by it's creator.

No matter what believers say ,the physical evidence IS that it is indeed a fake!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/...
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91184 May 29, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Hogwash , there is ONLY ONE known 1st century burial shroud in existence.
Your shroud it doesn't match either Jewish Tradition , or the only real identified shroud from the period. It was born a fake and announced a fake in the 14th century by it's creator.
No matter what believers say ,the physical evidence IS that it is indeed a fake!
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/...


Lol,keep telling your self that.

BURIAL CONSISTENT WITH ANCIENT JEWISH BURIAL CUSTOM

The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths. The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body. The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect, from removal from the cross to entombment. It was then removed and placed to one side. There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed. The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs. All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth. Such cloths are mentioned in the New Testament and are spoken of in the Misnah - oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century. The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem on the Cloth. Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel. Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites. Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts. Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth. All of these are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html

The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.
The cloth’s finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada.
The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Research keeps pointing towards authenticity.
Praise the Lord!!

Now you can go kick your dog. LOL.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#91185 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
woops make that -atheism because the children were schooled in a school system that was atheistic.
so wait, you think that not mentioning any god is somehow making kids atheists?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91186 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features...
The new Religious Education syllabus in the Lancashire town – for kids aged four and up – will include the belief that God does not exist. Pupils will learn about faiths including Christianity alongside humanism – which rejects religious beliefs. But here, Father Michael Lavin of the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Blackburn says he fears children may be left confused.
[/QUOTE]

We are obviously taking about in the U.S. Nimrod. Other countries will have their own laws.

Perhaps on the bright side we could send all of our creationists to England.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91187 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?[/QUOTE]

Sine he hasn't answered I will.

Yes.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#91188 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
Of course it does.. I have seen examples of the image and how it would look from the side. Dr Zugibe is correct in his analysis, you are not.
If in doubt of his conclusions ,you can read his book where he explains how the shroud covered the body.
The Crucifixion of Jesus
A Forensic Inquiry
Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
M.Evans & Co. New York,NY (2005)
The book is a culmination of 53 years of research into the scientific and medical aspects of crucifixion.
Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
Chief Medical Examiner, Rockland County , Ny 1969-2003,
performing over ten thousand autopsies and widely respected as an expert in forensic pathology.
He holds a Bachelor of Science, Master of Science (Anatomy/Electron Microscopy), Ph.D.(Anatomy/ Histochemistry), and an M.D. degree. He is a Diplomate of the American Board of Pathology in Anatomic Pathology and Forensic Pathology and a Diplomate of the American Board of Family Practice. Dr. Zugibe is an adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons and is a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists, a Fellow of the American Academy of the Forensic Sciences, Forensic Pathology Section, and a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners.
That is known as superior firepower.
Your guy has other credentials you aren't mentioning.
Knighted into the Dynastic Order of Our Lady of the Conception of Vila Vicosa by His Royal Highness, Dom Duarte Pio, Duke of Braganca and Titular King and Head of the Royal House of Portugal which was bestowed in recognition of great acts and services to the Royal House and the Church.

Things that make you go "hmmm..."?
Holy Piltdown man.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#91189 May 29, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?
No.

Not from "nothing". The earliest moments theorized of the Big Bang starts at a "something". An incredibly dense, hot "something" -- but "something" never the less.

That we were not there to witness it does not negate the evidence science DOES have.

And the evidence science DOES have suggests that the Universe, including the Milky Way galaxy, the Solar System, and Earth all had a different beginning other than that as presented in the Bible.

Remember also that NONE of this makes a claim FOR or AGAINST the possibility of a Supreme Being. None.

If your faith requires that God (or Allah, or whomever) put those forces into motion....have at it.

Science just goes by the evidence He/She/It left us.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91190 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features...
The new Religious Education syllabus in the Lancashire town – for kids aged four and up – will include the belief that God does not exist. Pupils will learn about faiths including Christianity alongside humanism – which rejects religious beliefs. But here, Father Michael Lavin of the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Blackburn says he fears children may be left confused.
[/QUOTE]

The Brits always were pretty smart

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#91191 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol,keep telling your self that.
BURIAL CONSISTENT WITH ANCIENT JEWISH BURIAL CUSTOM
The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths. The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body. The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect, from removal from the cross to entombment. It was then removed and placed to one side. There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed. The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs. All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth. Such cloths are mentioned in the New Testament and are spoken of in the Misnah - oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century. The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem on the Cloth. Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel. Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites. Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts. Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth. All of these are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html
The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.
The cloth’s finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada.
The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Research keeps pointing towards authenticity.
Praise the Lord!!
Now you can go kick your dog. LOL.
You cite things in nonexistence, I showed the
ONLY 1st CENTURY Jewish Burial Shroud IN EXISTENCE!

But if you want to hear it from a Jewish believers POV. Then be my guest.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/shroudoftur...

The only thing that make the shroud real is your belief, there is nothing in reality that makes it real , other than your belief.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91192 May 29, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
so wait, you think that not mentioning any god is somehow making kids atheists?
So you think the Soviet school system didn't teach atheism?

Militant atheism, according to Harold J. Berman, a Harvard specialist in Soviet law, was the state credo of the Soviet Union. The militant state atheism of the Bolshevik Revolution owed its origins to the Marxist-Leninist dictum that religion was the opium of the masses. As such, the goal of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the liquidation of religion and the means to achieve this goal included the destruction of churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, religious monuments, as well the mass deportation of believers to Siberian forced labor camps, which is commonly referred to as the Gulag. Many of these houses of worship were converted into bath houses, granaries, and museums of atheism, the latter of which were constructed in order to proselytize the masses into accepting atheism. In addition, atheistic and antireligious carnivals were frequently held in order to promote the mockery of the religious and the beliefs that they held sacred.

Under the Soviet doctrine of separation of Church and state, detailed in the Constitution of the Soviet Union, churches in the Soviet Union were forbidden to give to the poor or carry on educational activities. They could not publish literature, since all publishing was done by state agencies. Churches were forbidden to hold any special meetings for children, youth or women, or any general meetings for religious study or recreation, or to open libraries or keep any books other than those necessary for the performance of worship services. Furthermore, under militant atheist policies, Church property was expropriated. Moreover, not only was religion banned from the school and university system, but pupils were to be indoctrinated with atheism and antireligious teachings. For example, schoolchildren were asked to convert family members to atheism and memorize antireligious rhymes, songs, and catechisms, while university students who declined to propagate atheism lost their scholarships and were expelled from universities. In addition, scientific theories, such as the Big Bang, which implied a creator God, were suppressed in favor of theories which were thought to support atheistic materialism.

http://martyredintheussr.com/about.html

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91193 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?[/QUOTE]

Is the belief that some god was always floating around forever up in the sky over earth rational??

Is the belief that this same god was interested in the Hebrews sex habits rational??
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91194 May 29, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Sine he hasn't answered I will.
Yes.
Isn't it comforting to know that the Father of the Big Bang Theory is a Roman Catholic priest.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91195 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again [/QUOTE]

I assumed we were 'talking' about the US
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91196 May 29, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You cite things in nonexistence, I showed the
ONLY 1st CENTURY Jewish Burial Shroud IN EXISTENCE!
But if you want to hear it from a Jewish believers POV. Then be my guest.
http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/shroudoftur...
The only thing that make the shroud real is your belief, there is nothing in reality that makes it real , other than your belief.


You get so testy when you are shown to be wrong. Almost every scientist that actually tested the shroud believe it is authentic.

Barrie M. Schwortz:
The Official Documenting Photographer for the Shroud of Turin Research Project, Inc.,(STURP):
"Frankly, I am still Jewish, yet I believe the Shroud of Turin is the cloth that wrapped the man Jesus after he was crucified. That is not meant as a religious statement, but one based on my privileged position of direct involvement with many of the serious Shroud researchers in the world, and a knowledge of the scientific data, unclouded by media exaggeration and hype. The only reason I am still involved with the Shroud of Turin is because knowing the unbiased facts continues to convince me of its authenticity".

..........

Ray Rogers, a Fellow of the University of California, Los Alamos National Laboratory, a chemist who has scientifically examined the Shroud—in Turin—and studied the object for more than 27 years, wrote:

With some legitimacy, we might put up a strong case for a First Century shroud with an image best explained as being that of a crucified man. Isn't that enough? Remember that there weren't any Christians or Christian fanatics (e.g., Templars) in the First Century. There wasn't anyone around so warped that they would crucify a person to create a relic, and the technology did not exist to produce an adequate fake.
..........

"I was convinced it was a forgery" confesses Dr, John Heller of Yale Medical School, the blood expert of the team. Today he admits,

"NO QUESTION IN MY MIND! There was a scourged, crucified man in the Shroud."

..........

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91197 May 29, 2013
Sillyness wrote:
<quoted text>
NO ONE saw it?
No one saw such an event that even today they celebrate!?
Jesus was just a man. Like any other. Like all on here. Just a man.
Yeah....and he may not have even existed.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91198 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it comforting to know that the Father of the Big Bang Theory is a Roman Catholic priest.
I have no problem with that. Having religious views should not blind you to what science says.

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#91199 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
You get so testy when you are shown to be wrong. Almost every scientist that actually tested the shroud believe it is authentic.
Barrie M. Schwortz:
The Official Documenting Photographer for the Shroud of Turin Research Project, Inc.,(STURP):
"Frankly, I am still Jewish, yet I believe the Shroud of Turin is the cloth that wrapped the man Jesus after he was crucified. That is not meant as a religious statement, but one based on my privileged position of direct involvement with many of the serious Shroud researchers in the world, and a knowledge of the scientific data, unclouded by media exaggeration and hype. The only reason I am still involved with the Shroud of Turin is because knowing the unbiased facts continues to convince me of its authenticity".
..........
Ray Rogers, a Fellow of the University of California, Los Alamos National Laboratory, a chemist who has scientifically examined the Shroud—in Turin—and studied the object for more than 27 years, wrote:
With some legitimacy, we might put up a strong case for a First Century shroud with an image best explained as being that of a crucified man. Isn't that enough? Remember that there weren't any Christians or Christian fanatics (e.g., Templars) in the First Century. There wasn't anyone around so warped that they would crucify a person to create a relic, and the technology did not exist to produce an adequate fake.
..........
"I was convinced it was a forgery" confesses Dr, John Heller of Yale Medical School, the blood expert of the team. Today he admits,
"NO QUESTION IN MY MIND! There was a scourged, crucified man in the Shroud."
..........
Opinion means nothing in light of the evidence, Those who believe....want to believe. And this is the only thing they have.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91200 May 29, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Your guy has other credentials you aren't mentioning.
Knighted into the Dynastic Order of Our Lady of the Conception of Vila Vicosa by His Royal Highness, Dom Duarte Pio, Duke of Braganca and Titular King and Head of the Royal House of Portugal which was bestowed in recognition of great acts and services to the Royal House and the Church.
Things that make you go "hmmm..."?
Holy Piltdown man.
Wow, even more firepower. Just shows the recognition one can get when they are an expert in their field and Dr Zugibe certainly is an expert in his field.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91201 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
You get so testy when you are shown to be wrong. Almost every scientist that actually tested the shroud believe it is authentic.
Barrie M. Schwortz:
The Official Documenting Photographer for the Shroud of Turin Research Project, Inc.,(STURP):
"Frankly, I am still Jewish, yet I believe the Shroud of Turin is the cloth that wrapped the man Jesus after he was crucified. That is not meant as a religious statement, but one based on my privileged position of direct involvement with many of the serious Shroud researchers in the world, and a knowledge of the scientific data, unclouded by media exaggeration and hype. The only reason I am still involved with the Shroud of Turin is because knowing the unbiased facts continues to convince me of its authenticity".
..........
Ray Rogers, a Fellow of the University of California, Los Alamos National Laboratory, a chemist who has scientifically examined the Shroud—in Turin—and studied the object for more than 27 years, wrote:
With some legitimacy, we might put up a strong case for a First Century shroud with an image best explained as being that of a crucified man. Isn't that enough? Remember that there weren't any Christians or Christian fanatics (e.g., Templars) in the First Century. There wasn't anyone around so warped that they would crucify a person to create a relic, and the technology did not exist to produce an adequate fake.
..........
"I was convinced it was a forgery" confesses Dr, John Heller of Yale Medical School, the blood expert of the team. Today he admits,
"NO QUESTION IN MY MIND! There was a scourged, crucified man in the Shroud."
..........
Quotes without links by creationists are automatically assumed to be lies.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91202 May 29, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You cite things in nonexistence, I showed the
ONLY 1st CENTURY Jewish Burial Shroud IN EXISTENCE!
But if you want to hear it from a Jewish believers POV. Then be my guest.
http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/shroudoftur...
The only thing that make the shroud real is your belief, there is nothing in reality that makes it real , other than your belief.
By the way your logic leaves a bit to be desired kind of like grasping at straws.If 20 centuries from now the only motor vehicle researchers find dating to our time is a Yugo would they argue we all drove only Yugos?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What turns you on ? (Aug '11) 8 min skybobbie 489
Post any FOUR words (Feb '16) 8 min Poppyann 1,425
Add a Word remove a Word (Oct '13) 9 min Poppyann 4,171
Post "any three words" (Sep '12) 10 min Poppyann 3,361
News Man charged with wearing clear plastic wrap bik... 13 min Knock off purse s... 4
Word association (Jun '07) 21 min skybobbie 5,467
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 22 min Sam 61,720
What Turns You Off (Jun '11) 24 min Spirit67_ 9,173
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 25 min Sharlene45 201,287
Who won the Presidential debate 2016 ? 8 hr Go Blue Forever 155
More from around the web