Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221922 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#91172 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features...
The new Religious Education syllabus in the Lancashire town – for kids aged four and up – will include the belief that God does not exist. Pupils will learn about faiths including Christianity alongside humanism – which rejects religious beliefs. But here, Father Michael Lavin of the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Blackburn says he fears children may be left confused.
[/QUOTE]

That's not the US, doofus.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91174 May 29, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
You might also note that the pate of the head is completely missing, which would be impossible if the shroud was draped in the manner indicated unless the model was 2 dimensional.
"Joe Zias, an Israeli anthropologist, is quoted as saying
the back image is about 2 inches shorter than the front image. But that is wrong; it is the other way around. The reason for the longer DORSAL image was pointed out by Fred Zugibe, the former head of forensic medicine at Columbia University. Several other forensic experts agree with Zugibe. Zubibe has noted that the head was tilted forward. Hence, here is an example of distortion in the image where the "longer" neck on the dorsal end causes the measurement of the Man of the Shroud to appear to be different from the frontal view where the head, tilted forward, hides the neck and causes the measurement of the front to appear to be shorter. This also accounts for other apparent anomalies."
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91175 May 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
<quoted text>
This is from your site.

"No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilizedand the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesusmultiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face."

But there are examples

Methchild Flury-Lemberg, a leading authority on historic textiles and the former curator of Switzerlands Abegg Foundation Textile Museum, has reported strong similarities between the Shrouds fabric and fragments of cloth produced in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago. According to Flury-Lemberg, the cloths finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Flury-Lembergs detailed analysis of the Shrouds fabric an exceptionally fine quality, z-twist, 3-over-1-herringbone patterned linen cloth is evidence that it was manufactured in the Middle East on a Roman-period Egyptian or Syrian loom.

so obviously your source is incorrect.

As far as other cloths,I believe the separate face cloth is known as the Sudarium Of Oveido.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91176 May 29, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Considering the image was based on those painted in illustrations and not on what a person of the time and lineage of this Jesus would look like, it's pretty easy to tell it was a fake from the start, most believers don't even regard it as authentic for that very reason. Remember, your myths are about the Middle East people, in the Middle East, with Arabic bloodlines ... he'd look like Arabic, not European.
Actually the paintings were based on the image.

"Starting in the sixth century, pictures of Jesus seem inspired or even copied from a single source.

In the 1930's, French Shroud scholar Paul Vignon described a series of common characteristics visible in many early artistic pictures of Jesus. The Vignon markings, as they are known, all appear on the Shroud suggesting that it is the source of later pictures of Jesus.

A square U-shape between the eyebrows.
A downward pointing triangle or V-shape just below the U-shape, on the bridge of the nose.
Two wisps of hair going downward and then to the right.
A raised right eyebrow.
Large, seemingly "owlish" eyes. This may be the result of coins placed over the eyes.
An accent on the left cheek and an accent on the right cheek that is somewhat lower.
A forked beard. Dr. Whanger (see below) has suggested that this may the result of a chin band tied around the head to keep the mouth closed.
An enlarged left nostril.
An accent line below the nose and a dark line just below the lower lip.
A gap in the beard below the lower lip.
Hair on one side of the head that is shorter than on the other side.

http://www.shroudstory.com/art.htm

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#91177 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is from your site.
"No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilizedand the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesusmultiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face."
But there are examples
Methchild Flury-Lemberg, a leading authority on historic textiles and the former curator of Switzerlands Abegg Foundation Textile Museum, has reported strong similarities between the Shrouds fabric and fragments of cloth produced in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago. According to Flury-Lemberg, the cloths finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Flury-Lembergs detailed analysis of the Shrouds fabric an exceptionally fine quality, z-twist, 3-over-1-herringbone patterned linen cloth is evidence that it was manufactured in the Middle East on a Roman-period Egyptian or Syrian loom.
so obviously your source is incorrect.
As far as other cloths,I believe the separate face cloth is known as the Sudarium Of Oveido.
I fail to see how this is evidence supporting the claim made for the shroud.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91178 May 29, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yet you have been shown time and time again that it was people of faith that did all that killing.
why do you have to keep posting that lie? perhaps we should start a thread a bout why cult members like you have to constantly lie to try and support their cult?
And you have been shown time and time again it was children schooled in theism that did all the killing.Why do you keep posting the lie?Perhaps you need stronger meds.

Ivan's Terrible World War II Experiences: The Red Army G.I. in the Great Patrtiotic War, April 9, 2007
By C. M Mills "Michael Mills"

...The Russians died in droves. They were trained from birth to WORSHIP THE ATHEISTIC STATE. They were guilty of rape, looting, torture, Anti-Semitism and cruelty in all its hydra headed manifestations. Those Soviets who were captured by the enemy as POW's were suspected by their own government as being spies. Many of these troops were sent to the infamous GULAG's following the end of the war in 1945..........
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3KIYM2OAM43C9

Busted!!
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91179 May 29, 2013
woops make that -atheism because the children were schooled in a school system that was atheistic.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#91180 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Joe Zias, an Israeli anthropologist, is quoted as saying
the back image is about 2 inches shorter than the front image. But that is wrong; it is the other way around. The reason for the longer DORSAL image was pointed out by Fred Zugibe, the former head of forensic medicine at Columbia University. Several other forensic experts agree with Zugibe. Zubibe has noted that the head was tilted forward. Hence, here is an example of distortion in the image where the "longer" neck on the dorsal end causes the measurement of the Man of the Shroud to appear to be different from the frontal view where the head, tilted forward, hides the neck and causes the measurement of the front to appear to be shorter. This also accounts for other apparent anomalies."
No, it does not. You can clearly see for yourself that the meeting of the anterior and posterior images at the pate of the head do not allow for any depth. As was also noted, there is no facial lateral distortion that should be apparent were the cloth settled across the face, which would be the normal position of the cloth.
It's just another Holy Piltdown man.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91182 May 29, 2013
Of course it does.. I have seen examples of the image and how it would look from the side. Dr Zugibe is correct in his analysis, you are not.

If in doubt of his conclusions ,you can read his book where he explains how the shroud covered the body.

The Crucifixion of Jesus
A Forensic Inquiry
Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
M.Evans & Co. New York,NY (2005)

The book is a culmination of 53 years of research into the scientific and medical aspects of crucifixion.

Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
Chief Medical Examiner, Rockland County , Ny 1969-2003,
performing over ten thousand autopsies and widely respected as an expert in forensic pathology.

He holds a Bachelor of Science, Master of Science (Anatomy/Electron Microscopy), Ph.D.(Anatomy/ Histochemistry), and an M.D. degree. He is a Diplomate of the American Board of Pathology in Anatomic Pathology and Forensic Pathology and a Diplomate of the American Board of Family Practice. Dr. Zugibe is an adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons and is a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists, a Fellow of the American Academy of the Forensic Sciences, Forensic Pathology Section, and a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners.

That is known as superior firepower.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#91183 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is from your site.
"No examples of complex herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus when, in any case, burial cloths tended to be of plain weave. In addition, Jewish burial practice utilizedand the Gospel of John specifically describes for Jesusmultiple burial wrappings with a separate cloth over the face."
But there are examples
Methchild Flury-Lemberg, a leading authority on historic textiles and the former curator of Switzerlands Abegg Foundation Textile Museum, has reported strong similarities between the Shrouds fabric and fragments of cloth produced in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago. According to Flury-Lemberg, the cloths finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Flury-Lembergs detailed analysis of the Shrouds fabric an exceptionally fine quality, z-twist, 3-over-1-herringbone patterned linen cloth is evidence that it was manufactured in the Middle East on a Roman-period Egyptian or Syrian loom.
so obviously your source is incorrect.
As far as other cloths,I believe the separate face cloth is known as the Sudarium Of Oveido.
Hogwash , there is ONLY ONE known 1st century burial shroud in existence.

Your shroud it doesn't match either Jewish Tradition , or the only real identified shroud from the period. It was born a fake and announced a fake in the 14th century by it's creator.

No matter what believers say ,the physical evidence IS that it is indeed a fake!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/...
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91184 May 29, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Hogwash , there is ONLY ONE known 1st century burial shroud in existence.
Your shroud it doesn't match either Jewish Tradition , or the only real identified shroud from the period. It was born a fake and announced a fake in the 14th century by it's creator.
No matter what believers say ,the physical evidence IS that it is indeed a fake!
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/...


Lol,keep telling your self that.

BURIAL CONSISTENT WITH ANCIENT JEWISH BURIAL CUSTOM

The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths. The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body. The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect, from removal from the cross to entombment. It was then removed and placed to one side. There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed. The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs. All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth. Such cloths are mentioned in the New Testament and are spoken of in the Misnah - oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century. The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem on the Cloth. Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel. Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites. Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts. Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth. All of these are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html

The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.
The cloths finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada.
The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Research keeps pointing towards authenticity.
Praise the Lord!!

Now you can go kick your dog. LOL.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#91185 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
woops make that -atheism because the children were schooled in a school system that was atheistic.
so wait, you think that not mentioning any god is somehow making kids atheists?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91186 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features...
The new Religious Education syllabus in the Lancashire town – for kids aged four and up – will include the belief that God does not exist. Pupils will learn about faiths including Christianity alongside humanism – which rejects religious beliefs. But here, Father Michael Lavin of the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Blackburn says he fears children may be left confused.
[/QUOTE]

We are obviously taking about in the U.S. Nimrod. Other countries will have their own laws.

Perhaps on the bright side we could send all of our creationists to England.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91187 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?[/QUOTE]

Sine he hasn't answered I will.

Yes.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#91188 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
Of course it does.. I have seen examples of the image and how it would look from the side. Dr Zugibe is correct in his analysis, you are not.
If in doubt of his conclusions ,you can read his book where he explains how the shroud covered the body.
The Crucifixion of Jesus
A Forensic Inquiry
Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
M.Evans & Co. New York,NY (2005)
The book is a culmination of 53 years of research into the scientific and medical aspects of crucifixion.
Frederick T.Zugibe M.D., Ph.D
Chief Medical Examiner, Rockland County , Ny 1969-2003,
performing over ten thousand autopsies and widely respected as an expert in forensic pathology.
He holds a Bachelor of Science, Master of Science (Anatomy/Electron Microscopy), Ph.D.(Anatomy/ Histochemistry), and an M.D. degree. He is a Diplomate of the American Board of Pathology in Anatomic Pathology and Forensic Pathology and a Diplomate of the American Board of Family Practice. Dr. Zugibe is an adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons and is a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists, a Fellow of the American Academy of the Forensic Sciences, Forensic Pathology Section, and a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners.
That is known as superior firepower.
Your guy has other credentials you aren't mentioning.
Knighted into the Dynastic Order of Our Lady of the Conception of Vila Vicosa by His Royal Highness, Dom Duarte Pio, Duke of Braganca and Titular King and Head of the Royal House of Portugal which was bestowed in recognition of great acts and services to the Royal House and the Church.

Things that make you go "hmmm..."?
Holy Piltdown man.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#91189 May 29, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?
No.

Not from "nothing". The earliest moments theorized of the Big Bang starts at a "something". An incredibly dense, hot "something" -- but "something" never the less.

That we were not there to witness it does not negate the evidence science DOES have.

And the evidence science DOES have suggests that the Universe, including the Milky Way galaxy, the Solar System, and Earth all had a different beginning other than that as presented in the Bible.

Remember also that NONE of this makes a claim FOR or AGAINST the possibility of a Supreme Being. None.

If your faith requires that God (or Allah, or whomever) put those forces into motion....have at it.

Science just goes by the evidence He/She/It left us.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91190 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
"You're not allowed to teach religion in school."
Wrong again
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features...
The new Religious Education syllabus in the Lancashire town – for kids aged four and up – will include the belief that God does not exist. Pupils will learn about faiths including Christianity alongside humanism – which rejects religious beliefs. But here, Father Michael Lavin of the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church in Blackburn says he fears children may be left confused.
[/QUOTE]

The Brits always were pretty smart

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#91191 May 29, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol,keep telling your self that.
BURIAL CONSISTENT WITH ANCIENT JEWISH BURIAL CUSTOM
The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths. The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body. The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect, from removal from the cross to entombment. It was then removed and placed to one side. There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed. The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs. All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth. Such cloths are mentioned in the New Testament and are spoken of in the Misnah - oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century. The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem on the Cloth. Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel. Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites. Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts. Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth. All of these are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html
The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.
The cloths finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada.
The Masada fabrics have been reliably dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE. Research keeps pointing towards authenticity.
Praise the Lord!!
Now you can go kick your dog. LOL.
You cite things in nonexistence, I showed the
ONLY 1st CENTURY Jewish Burial Shroud IN EXISTENCE!

But if you want to hear it from a Jewish believers POV. Then be my guest.

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/shroudoftur...

The only thing that make the shroud real is your belief, there is nothing in reality that makes it real , other than your belief.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#91192 May 29, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
so wait, you think that not mentioning any god is somehow making kids atheists?
So you think the Soviet school system didn't teach atheism?

Militant atheism, according to Harold J. Berman, a Harvard specialist in Soviet law, was the state credo of the Soviet Union. The militant state atheism of the Bolshevik Revolution owed its origins to the Marxist-Leninist dictum that religion was the opium of the masses. As such, the goal of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the liquidation of religion and the means to achieve this goal included the destruction of churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, religious monuments, as well the mass deportation of believers to Siberian forced labor camps, which is commonly referred to as the Gulag. Many of these houses of worship were converted into bath houses, granaries, and museums of atheism, the latter of which were constructed in order to proselytize the masses into accepting atheism. In addition, atheistic and antireligious carnivals were frequently held in order to promote the mockery of the religious and the beliefs that they held sacred.

Under the Soviet doctrine of separation of Church and state, detailed in the Constitution of the Soviet Union, churches in the Soviet Union were forbidden to give to the poor or carry on educational activities. They could not publish literature, since all publishing was done by state agencies. Churches were forbidden to hold any special meetings for children, youth or women, or any general meetings for religious study or recreation, or to open libraries or keep any books other than those necessary for the performance of worship services. Furthermore, under militant atheist policies, Church property was expropriated. Moreover, not only was religion banned from the school and university system, but pupils were to be indoctrinated with atheism and antireligious teachings. For example, schoolchildren were asked to convert family members to atheism and memorize antireligious rhymes, songs, and catechisms, while university students who declined to propagate atheism lost their scholarships and were expelled from universities. In addition, scientific theories, such as the Big Bang, which implied a creator God, were suppressed in favor of theories which were thought to support atheistic materialism.

http://martyredintheussr.com/about.html

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#91193 May 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="KJV
"]<quoted text>
Kong
Is the formation of the The Big Bang from nothing, science?[/QUOTE]

Is the belief that some god was always floating around forever up in the sky over earth rational??

Is the belief that this same god was interested in the Hebrews sex habits rational??

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