Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91085 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is coming...see where it has already started in states, soon to be at the federal level. Have fun watching...:-)
The anti-evolution bill, HB 1674, had passed the House Education Committee in a close 9 to 8 vote earlier in the session, but it never made it to the full House for a vote. Legislators, however, could still use the language of the bill in another measure, which was attempted last year, or use other legislative rules or protocols to pass it.
Sponsored by Gus Blackwell, a Laverne Republican, the bill argues that topics, such as evolution, global warming and cloning can cause controversy, and teachers should teach their weaknesses and strengths. The problem here is that the underlying science of these subjects is absolutely not controversial among scientists, researchers and academics. The controversy is generated by some religious people, who feel subjects such as evolution contradict their world view, specifically their belief in creationism. I wrote about the bill here. Similar bills have been passed in Louisiana and Tennessee.
http://okiefunk.com/node/1216
I'm aware of the bills. Politicians will do what they will do especially if it keeps them in office. The courts tend to see things very differently.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91086 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but the problem is a Christian school cost money and the parents are already forced into paying property taxes to pay for the secular public schools that teach things against their religion.
It is quite unfair.
How would you like to have to pay for school that teaches things you don't believe in...and then, on top of that, fund a private school tuition?
Very unfair and unconstitutional.
Taxation without representation.
You are represented. You have heard of elections haven't you? Or do you choose not to vote?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91087 May 29, 2013
I can agree with some of what you say but certainly not the "both sides trying to force their opinions and points on others". Those of us of the scientific bent are not trying to force our science into anyone's church. On the other hand, it is the religious believers that are trying to force their beliefs into science classes. Those are the facts and they are undisputed.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91088 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but the problem is a Christian school cost money and the parents are already forced into paying property taxes to pay for the secular public schools that teach things against their religion.
It is quite unfair.
How would you like to have to pay for school that teaches things you don't believe in...and then, on top of that, fund a private school tuition?
Very unfair and unconstitutional.
Taxation without representation.
Wrong, it is not taxation without representation. You can have a hand in what is taught in schools. You cannot ask that religion be taught at schools. That is illegal. It is unconstitutional. Several courts have found that.

Now if you want to try to show that creationism is correct using science you are free to do so. Of course you run a risk if you do. Any scientific idea or theory has to be falsifiable. That is, there has to be some way to prove it wrong. So far all creationist ideas have been shown to be wrong when approached using the scientific method. We don't even have to know how the creation was done. All that we need to know are what are some of the predicted consequences of Biblical creation and Noah's Ark. The consequences predicted by creationists have always been shown to be wrong to date.

That is why there is not even a hypothesis of creation or the Flood, much less a theory.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#91089 May 29, 2013
We don't force atheists children to come to church to learn about God His creations...

We don't let atheists come into our church and teach our children they came from monkeys...:)...

so why should we be forced to pay for secular schools who teach such nonsense.

It's wrong to force taxation for this, especially if we have children who need schooling....just not their idea of schooling.

It's paying twice for schooling each child.

not fair!

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#91090 May 29, 2013
patrisha1976 wrote:
LOL. Charles Darwin was a racist. There's no prove that all life arose from one common ancestor. I am not surprised that the evolutionist theories are collapsing. Atheist science defend Darwinism like a religion. What a big fraud! One Hoax after another. They are so quick to announce their fake evolution discoveries, but they are not so quick to expose their mistakes and disproven conjectures.
In contrast to the existing views on race, Darwin showed that:
patrisha1976 wrote:
LOL. Charles Darwin was a racist.

Not so much. Virtually EVERY Englishman of the period would be considered racist in today's society. But Darwin was much LESS so than you might believe:

People cannot be classified as different species.
All races are related and have a common ancestry.
All people come from "savage" origins.
The different races have much more in common than was widely believed.
The mental capabilities of all races are virtually the same and there is greater variation within races than between races.
Different races of people can interbreed and there is no concern for ill effects.
Culture, not biology, accounted for the greatest differences between the races.
Races are not distinct, but rather they blend together .

"This diversity of judgment does not prove that the races ought not to be ranked as species, but it shews that they graduate into each other, and that it is hardly possible to discover clear distinctive characters between them.
- Charles Darwin; The Descent of Man, 1871

[QUOTE who="patrisha1976"]T here's no prove that all life arose from one common ancestor.

Incorrect. There is ample evidence from multiple scientific lines. ALL point to common ancestry.

[QUOTE who="patrisha1976"]I am not surprised that the evolutionist theories are collapsing.

Incorrect. Again. The Theory of Evolution is quite robust.

[QUOTE who="patrisha1976"]A theist science defend Darwinism like a religion.

Incorrect. Yet again! If you were to try to promote in public school History classes that there was no widespread Jewish extermination by the Nazis in WWII, then I would be contesting that with as much passion.

[QUOTE who="patrisha1976"]W hat a big fraud! One Hoax after another. They are so quick to announce their fake evolution discoveries, but they are not so quick to expose their mistakes and disproven conjectures.
Incorrect (Congratulations! Four 'Incorrects' in a row!-- Going for the record?).

There were a few frauds, ALL exposed by science. NONE exposed by non-scientists.
Care to provide an example of a fraud? I can demonstrate.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#91091 May 29, 2013
Crap. That's what happens (above) when one tries to multi-task.

Hope you can figure it out.

“Day is Day”

Level 3

Since: May 13

Night is Night

#91092 May 29, 2013
MikeF wrote:
I can agree with some of what you say but certainly not the "both sides trying to force their opinions and points on others". Those of us of the scientific bent are not trying to force our science into anyone's church. On the other hand, it is the religious believers that are trying to force their beliefs into science classes. Those are the facts and they are undisputed.
Force doesn't have to mean going to a certain place. I see force from both sides on here by one or the other saying "You are an idiot" "You are wrong stupid, this is how it is" so on and so on. People respond to criticism and sarcasm with criticism and sarcasm in return.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#91093 May 29, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You are represented. You have heard of elections haven't you? Or do you choose not to vote?
Oh yes, I definitely vote. Wouldn't miss it for anything. Things are looking up with Charter schools and school tax vouchers in states with common sense.

BELOW ARE THE FIVE STATES THAT HAVE BANNED EVOLUTION FROM THE CLASSROOM, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

“Currently five states _ Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi and Oklahoma _ have no references to evolution in their state school curriculums, according to the National Center for Science Education.”

http://wsbradio.com/common/ap/2004/01/30/D80D...

http://www.natcenscied.org/
----------

THREE MORE States are currently preparing there court cases to do the
same thing!

It is expected that these States will win their cases as well, as the ACLU seems to be focused on having a single way to say The Pledge.(A
topic that was put to bed some 40 years ago, with 2 accepted ways to say The Pledge).

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91094 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
We don't force atheists children to come to church to learn about God His creations...
We don't let atheists come into our church and teach our children they came from monkeys...:)...
so why should we be forced to pay for secular schools who teach such nonsense.
It's wrong to force taxation for this, especially if we have children who need schooling....just not their idea of schooling.
It's paying twice for schooling each child.
not fair!
It is fair. You are provided with a school that does not push Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca or even Christianity.

You have the absolute right to practice your religion largely as you see fit up to and including placing your children in a religious school of your choosing.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91095 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
We don't force atheists children to come to church to learn about God His creations...
We don't let atheists come into our church and teach our children they came from monkeys...:)...
so why should we be forced to pay for secular schools who teach such nonsense.
It's wrong to force taxation for this, especially if we have children who need schooling....just not their idea of schooling.
It's paying twice for schooling each child.
not fair!
Of course it is, and you know it. Otherwise you would not have ducked my question if a school should teach 2 + 2 = 5 if that is what the religion of some students' parents says.

If you want to teach your kids that 2 + 2 = 5 you can use your own money. You should be happy that you are allowed to fill their innocent minds with that nonsense. In many countries you don't have that choice at all.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91096 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yes, I definitely vote. Wouldn't miss it for anything. Things are looking up with Charter schools and school tax vouchers in states with common sense.
BELOW ARE THE FIVE STATES THAT HAVE BANNED EVOLUTION FROM THE CLASSROOM, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
“Currently five states _ Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi and Oklahoma _ have no references to evolution in their state school curriculums, according to the National Center for Science Education.”
http://wsbradio.com/common/ap/2004/01/30/D80D...
http://www.natcenscied.org/
----------
THREE MORE States are currently preparing there court cases to do the
same thing!
It is expected that these States will win their cases as well, as the ACLU seems to be focused on having a single way to say The Pledge.(A
topic that was put to bed some 40 years ago, with 2 accepted ways to say The Pledge).
You still can't link. Your first link says "nonexistent" page. The second goes to the home page. Not to the specific one you mentioned. All you have to do is to copy and paste the page you are on that you want to site. It is not that difficult.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91097 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yes, I definitely vote. Wouldn't miss it for anything. Things are looking up with Charter schools and school tax vouchers in states with common sense.
BELOW ARE THE FIVE STATES THAT HAVE BANNED EVOLUTION FROM THE CLASSROOM, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
“Currently five states _ Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi and Oklahoma _ have no references to evolution in their state school curriculums, according to the National Center for Science Education.”
http://wsbradio.com/common/ap/2004/01/30/D80D...
http://www.natcenscied.org/
----------
THREE MORE States are currently preparing there court cases to do the
same thing!
It is expected that these States will win their cases as well, as the ACLU seems to be focused on having a single way to say The Pledge.(A
topic that was put to bed some 40 years ago, with 2 accepted ways to say The Pledge).
Bullcrap. At least as far as Florida is concerned:

Standard 15 states that Diversity and Evolution of Living Organisms is a requirement.

http://www.cpalms.org/Standards/PublicPreview...

Note that I work in public education.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91098 May 29, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullcrap. At least as far as Florida is concerned:
Standard 15 states that Diversity and Evolution of Living Organisms is a requirement.
http://www.cpalms.org/Standards/PublicPreview...
Note that I work in public education.
Thanks Mike. There is a reason that I demand valid links when working with creationists. When I went to his two sites, as I said, there was nothing that supported his claim.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#91099 May 29, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but the problem is a Christian school cost money and the parents are already forced into paying property taxes to pay for the secular public schools that teach things against their religion.
It is quite unfair.
How would you like to have to pay for school that teaches things you don't believe in...and then, on top of that, fund a private school tuition?
Very unfair and unconstitutional.
Taxation without representation.
Science is not a religion, dumbass.
It would be unconstitutional to teach third century religion in place of twenty first century science in a public school.
"Unfair?" I pay taxes for roads built specifically for real estate developers. I pay taxes for politicians I did not vote for or who proudly fail to represent their constituents. I pay taxes to provide "incentive packages" and tax deductions for those who barely notice. I pay taxes for pro sports arenas and stadiums. I pay taxes for people to be incarcerated for smoking a plant. I pay taxes to support crooked bankers. I pay taxes to invade and occupy countries we have no business in, and to barely support the broken men and families that has been the result.
AND I've paid for 28 years of private schooling for my kids.
If you are a productive member of society, pony up your fair share. If you decide to have children and decide not to opt for the publicly available education, pony up your fair share.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#91100 May 29, 2013
One is glad to be of service.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#91102 May 29, 2013
"Unfair?" Did I somehow forget to mention the 501(c)s funneled by non-profit, non-political religious organizations to support their stooges and cronies in government?
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#91103 May 29, 2013

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#91104 May 29, 2013
One of Aron Ra's better pieces of work on why creationism does not belong in public schools:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“Day is Day”

Level 3

Since: May 13

Night is Night

#91105 May 29, 2013
Ok I have a couple questions. I see threads that say "posting for points" others say "lets swap props". What is that about? Also there is a gray thumbs up icon in right upper corner of everyone's comment box. What is it? Just curious.

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