Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223384 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90354 May 23, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>There are legends of this flood in all cultures of the world. Have you never heard of the Gilgamesh epic? These stories exist outside of the bible and are virtually identical. That is enough to prove Noahs' flood a reality.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand that was the very point I was making. If they WERE identical they'd ALL say the same thing. They'd ALL say Noah, Mrs Noah, Ham, Sham, Curly and Wotsit.

They don't.

You will note similarities lessen the further apart the sources are geographically. This is because local tribes plagiarized each other's myths, much like the Jews stole bits from the Egyptian pantheon, the Christians stole their myths from the Jews, and the Muslims stole theirs from the Jews and Christians.

That doesn't mean their religions are valid. It just means they weren't terribly inventive when they decided they wanted to make up a new religion.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#90355 May 23, 2013
Lamer wrote:
If most people actually believed their religion 100% then the Muslims would just wait for us to die as Allah will judge and punish us more so than they ever could. But they do not.
Same with Christians, if they actually believe they get to spend eternity in as such a place like Heaven, then why would they want to waste another second on earth? They would be begging to be killed so they could go be with Jesus. This place is nothing compared to Heaven right?
Or did my logic fail me somewhere in there?
Your logic is grossly flawed, born from the perverted mind of an atheist. An eternal reward is not achieved by committing suicide, but by striving to follow the teachings in the Bible. Furthermore, life is a gift from God, and the experience of living on earth is precious and should be cherished.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90356 May 23, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaiah: 740 B.C.
Greece (Eratosthenes): 276 B.C.
Greece was late by around 460 years. Regardless, Isaiah made a statement that was accurate in a time before there were any satelites or anything else that would've informed him and the book of Genesis is blatant when it states that the Earth and animals were created before man, something also proven by modern science bu they marked my post as "clueless" lol.. idiots.
And funnily enough sailors had circumnavigated the Earth THOUSANDS of years earlier while later cultures (like the early Jews) were worried that a boat would fall off the edge of the Earth. The ancient Greeks were the ones who first used applied math to figure out the size of the Earth, and they were pretty close. You may note how the Bible itself describes the Earth in an EXCEEDINGLY atrocious manner, so much that to say it "accurately" described the shape of the Earth would be STUPENDOUSLY absurd. Or a stupendous lie.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#90358 May 23, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I do. Problem is that when I ask you guys for evidence, every single one of you without fail are UNable to provide it.
<quoted text>
I did.
Nothing happened.
Same as nothing happens when you pray, beyond the placebo effect.
Did you pray honestly believing that God is real? You have to be serious, God will not be mocked.

John 20:29
English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to him,“Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

1 Peter 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90359 May 23, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
Everyone with half a brain knows that 6 and 7 are used symbolically in the Bible. 7 represents fullness, completeness and what is holy, while 6 represents imperfection and incompleteness. SO, when Genesis says the everything was created in 7 days, it simply means all was created in the fullness/completeness of time.
Ah, so due to SYMBOLISM, the Bible is "literally" true, except when it isn't.

And of course you are in no way second-guessing the intentions of the author of the KJV or NIV that you are currently reading. Who were also in no way second-guessing the authors who wrote the previous translations before theirs. And the one before that. And the one before that. And the one before...

Ain't no such thing as a Biblical literalist.

Well, except for me maybe.(shrug)
Triceroy wrote:
6 is a number representing the creation and because the physical creation through man, has fallen into imperfection, 6 is used to denote imperfection. Goliath had 6 toes on each foot and was considered an enemy of God. Today we know that 6 toes denotes a physical deformity, imperfection. The mark of the beast, a mark of man was 666. The 6 three times represents gross imperfection in the physical.
616.

It's important you get the number right.

Fundies suck at math.
Triceroy wrote:
It asks man to use intelligence to understand what the number means. To calculate it. I personally believe that it's talking about the physical and the flesh's enmity with the creator. Carbon for instance, it's the building block for all matter.
What???
Triceroy wrote:
Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons.
Not necessarily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon#Isotopes
Triceroy wrote:
Anyway, kinda off subject here. The 7 days of course, are not litteral days, but symbolic of a full span of time, i.e. millions of years.
Exactly. Meaning it does NOT give an accurate description.

Of course it could well be that the uneducated ignorant goat-herders who thought the Earth was flat who actually wrote the darn thing could well have actually meant... six days.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90360 May 23, 2013
Zack Crossley wrote:
<quoted text> AMEN!
I notice you did not pay attention to subsequent rebuttals.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90361 May 23, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Gen 1:11 plants are created.
By your "reasoning," 6,000 YEARS LATER
Gen 1:14 the sun is created
99.8% of all the matter in the solar system and the single source energy for photosynthesis.
Have you been taking your meds like the good doctors tell you to?
Plants need sunlight? Feh! What silly atheist evolutionist Darwinist schools have you been going to?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#90362 May 23, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Gen 1:11 plants are created.
By your "reasoning," 6,000 YEARS LATER
Gen 1:14 the sun is created
99.8% of all the matter in the solar system and the single source energy for photosynthesis.
Have you been taking your meds like the good doctors tell you to?
Gen 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light". The light of God existed before the sun and will exist after the sun, it was the first thing to be created.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#90363 May 23, 2013
Worthington wrote:
Was the creator on drugs when he "made" Blacks?
If so the creator should be stripped of rank.
Church is ok for negroes and hispanics. Dangerous
church bullshit undermines Western Civilization.
I know that you are a racist idiot, but if you believe the theory of evolution then you believe that you are descended from black people. Humans began as a species in Africa. The evolution of light skin and light hair are later evolutionary developments. They do not represent an increase in intelligence nor morals. The last time I checked nobody thought with their skin.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#90364 May 23, 2013
Becky Crossley wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought this was a sight were you debate on real objectives not about who's who. So if your not adult enough you need to get off this sight.
Judging by what you've posted to this point, you being here to 'debate' is debatable. Outside of that... whatcha got?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90365 May 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
You are blinded by arrogance Dude.
Is it scientifically logical to assume that because YOU have not had a spiritual experience, that no one else has?
No. It is logical to assume that since not one single person out of the 7 billion currently living on this planet have been able to demonstrate such claims, there is no reason to presume such claims are valid at this time due to lack of evidence.
HTS wrote:
You are presuming that others are lying or delusional, and that only if you experienced a miraculous experience would it be valid. This supposes that no one else on earth can be trusted but you.
You propose that I am a proponent of nihilism. This is incorrect. If they were not lying or delusional then surely at least ONE of the 7 billion people on Earth could provide scientific evidence of their claims. Due to scientific evidence being objectively verifiable it would therefore have scientific support beyond mere opinion, and I would begin to at the very least tentatively trust those findings. However this has not occurred, and ultimately your complaint is that I am not taking subjective opinion based on ancient religious myths seriously.
HTS wrote:
You categorically reject all evidence of God because YOU have not personally witnessed it.
Correct. Neither has anyone else for at least 2,000 years. And even that was hear-say. I could also point to any other pseudo-scientific proposal which you may happen to agree or disagree with. UFO's. Psychics. Quantum pseudo-scientists. Alt-Med nuts. Moon-landing deniers. Each and every one of these becomes just as valid as your concept of a deity. The popularity of any one of these subjects is irrelevant to their validity as not one of them can be objectively demonstrated.
HTS wrote:
Yet you put unending faith in the words of others whom you don't know, assuming that their research which validates your religion (evolution) is valid.
Not at all. For even anti-science promoters such as yourself agree that the evidence exists, and it is one's "interpretation" of the evidence which counts. That of course is not true because interpretation is subsequently verified by testing. However you will note that those who reject evidence entirely that is known to exist will more commonly be found on forums such as this. Whereas when one reads apologetics from creationist organisations they rarely do so. A Topix fundie may deny a fossil exists. However creationist organisations will accept that the biological remains are not a fabrication. They wait until genuine researchers post their findings publicly, then offer their own opinion of what the evidence means despite being hundreds or even thousands of miles away from the finding. Which of course must fit with their pre-conceived conclusions that they already have posted on their website - Biblical inerrancy, an anti-scientific stance.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90366 May 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Naturalism is atheism by definition.
Then you are claiming that the universe and everything in it is atheistic. That also means *every* scientific field is atheistic. Your god is incapable of doing anything natural or interfering or influencing natural phenomena in any way at all whatsoever.

Congratulations, you just made your deity COMPLETELY irrelevant.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#90367 May 23, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Plants need sunlight? Feh! What silly atheist evolutionist Darwinist schools have you been going to?
God is "Light" and he was hovering over the waters of the earth.

Genesis
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said,“Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#90368 May 23, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
The Behemoth that eats grass is the Rhino. The laviethen mentioned in a few places is used in a number of ways. The great serpet/Satan is symbolically referred to as the leviathen. Then there's the massive sea creature God promises to offer up as food to people who come off victorious from the beast, after the tribulations. It to is called "Leviathen". It being the most massive sea beast and edible, I believe it was talking about the whale.
Leviathan means "huge serpent" and is Adam or Satan. Behemoth means very strong and powerful and is the Messiah. He's also called a beast in Daniel 7:11
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90369 May 23, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis 1:24-27
24 And God said,“Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said,“Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
THIS makes my statement valid, that the Bible makes it clear that animals came first. There's no clear time given between the creations either. Fact remains, the Bible in no way contradicts what we currently know about science or (true) history. We know now that animals came first, which could have been millions of years ago or no and we have no more than some 9,ooo years of real human history. 7 represents fullness/holy and since the Bible says God created Earth in 7 days, it meant he created it in the fulness/right amount of time. Any other suggestion is foolishness.
Sorry, but the first organisms where microbial/bacterial in nature. Also plants did not appear before the sun. The earliest human cave paintings are upward of 30-40,000 years old.

Remember, if you deny this you are denying science. This is usually the point where fundies say that's okay because God can do anything. Which is fine, but it just means that to say scientific evidence supports your position is a lie.

As for your claim that your interpretation of the Bible is better than his interpretation, the fact of the matter is that neither of you can make that claim. You believe in God, he believes in God. You read the Bible, he reads the Bible. You pray, he prays. Not one of you has any more special access to special knowledge of God than anyone else on the entire planet has. Cue fundamentalist ego and that's when theologies fracture and splinter into lots of little parts.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#90370 May 23, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you have no evidence.
Any and all scientific pitfalls are solved by Godmagic.
So by all means, feel free to believe what you want and spout it off as much as you want. But don't ignore the 9th Commandment by claiming scientific evidence supports it. That's what the rest of the liars for Jesus do around here.
I am not a Christian and the ninth commandment prohibits false witness, not lying. There's a difference, everybody lies but we're also not supposed to. Jehovahs witnesses are false, they have seen nothing. "They are their own witnesses, they see not nor know that they may be ashamed".
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90371 May 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> There is no scientific or archaeololgical evidence that man has been on the earth for more than about 5,000 years. If man has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, where is the evidence? I'm not looking for evo-dogma, I'm looking for scientific evidence.
Every time you say you're looking for science you lie. Every time we point to scientific evidence you reject it because it doesn't line up with your particular theology anyway. So what is the point of you asking? You are being dishonest. The fact of the matter is you are confusing recorded history with evidence of human habitation. The two are NOT the same. Recorded history goes back to around 5-6,000 years. But humans were doing other things before they decided to start writing events down, such as counting things with knots made of string or painting in caves. Your theology requires that all evidence be squeezed into a tiny window as dictated by Ussher, whose assumptions are not even necessarily Biblically supported.

Newsflash - Ussher was a f cking idiot. He does not dictate reality in any way.

Sorry if you don't like it.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90372 May 23, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
Job 41:1
"Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope?
Psalm 104:26
There the ships go to and fro, and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.
Isaiah 27:1
In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword-- his fierce, great and powerful sword-- Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea
For the idiots who doubt. Leviathan is a whale. Carbon dating is trash and Sumer is the start of our history post flood. We haven't been here that long, even if the Earth and it's animals have.
Sure. In fact the universe has only been here for 6 seconds. That's how long we've all been debating this subject for because God only poofed the universe into existence 6 seconds ago.

Prove me wrong.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#90373 May 23, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
He is but when God's people come together, God is dwelling there, especially in His Own House, the Church.
Matthew 18:20
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#90374 May 23, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Which includes babies who haven't even learned to talk or speak yet. Apparently mercy is not high on his list for these foul criminals who cry because they want some love and attention from mom. Henceforth they shall be consigned to the depths of hell along with Stalin, Hitler and Genghis Khan.
<quoted text>
Sure he is, on Drive a Volkswagen Day, your coming apocalypse. Remember? At the moment he's just chilling until the "right time". Then he will make his presence personally known again for the entire world, something he hasn't done for 2 or 3 millenia or so.
<quoted text>
None, I am already aware of your own self-constructed Abrahamic-based theology, though I may not be up on all the petty details which I find to be largely irrelevant.
<quoted text>
Babies haven't sinned against God personally for they have yet to develop the awareness of any such concepts, much less express them. To your god "wicked" is simply anyone who does not conform to any of his petty pet-hates. To him even rational skepticism is to be punished by eternal torture.
Your theology is f cked up to the core and is completely bereft of morality.
This is why, Poeism not withstanding, you are an extreme psychopath who needs serious professional help.
VWD Day stands for Vengeance, Wrath and Destruction. God understands all of us and she is a righteous judge. I wouldn't blaspheme the name of the living God.

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