Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173376 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#89372 May 17, 2013
creationist wrote:
When you reject God you become stupid. Obviously that's what has happened here.
No evolutionist has ever "rejected god". That would be a stupid thing to do. Now many people don't believe in god because there is no evidence for god, that is not a foolish thing to do.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#89373 May 17, 2013
creationist wrote:
<quoted text> actually I'm pretty shire he did. Check the Bible. And the were created each in their own way.
The problem is that the Bible is full of flaws. It is not a valid source for science, history, or even morals.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#89374 May 18, 2013
creationist wrote:
<quoted text> wrong carbon dating doesn't work. Want proof? How's this. The found a mammoth in the ice and used carbon dating to date it. They said that one part was older than a different part of the same animal!
Previous Claim: CD011.1 | List of Claims | Next Claim: CD011.3

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Claim CD011.2:
Widely different radiocarbon dates are obtained from the same frozen mammoths. Different parts of the Vollosovitch mammoth date to 29,500 and 44,000 years before present (BP). One part of Dima, a frozen baby mammoth, was 40,000, another part 26,000, and wood immediately around it was 9-10,000 BP. Two parts of the Fairbanks Creek mammoth date to 15,380 and 21,300 BP.
Source:

Brown, Walt, 2001. In the beginning: Compelling evidence for creation and the Flood (7th ed.) Center for Scientific Creation. http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/Fro...
Hovind, Kent, n.d. Doesn't carbon dating or potassium argon dating prove the Earth is millions of years old? http://www.drdino.com/QandA/index.jsp...

Response:
1. The dates come from different mammoths. The reference cited by Brown and cribbed by Hovind likely refers only to a Fairbanks mammoth, which Brown also mentions (Pw 1975, 30). The 15,380 and 21,300 BP dates come from separate mammoths, and it is noted that the 21,300 date is invalid because it comes from a hide soaked in glycerin. It is uncertain what is Brown's source for the 29,500 and 44,000 dates.

Ukraintseva (1993) reviews the Kirgilyakh mammoth, also known as Dima, and cites three dates obtained for it. All are around 40,000 years before present. Dates for deposits surrounding the mammoth are consistent with dates for the mammoth.

References:

1. Pw, Troy L., 1975. Quaternary stratigraphic nomenclature in unglaciated Central Alaska. U. S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 862.
2. Ukraintseva, V. V., 1993. Vegetation Cover and Environment of the "Mammoth Epoch" in Siberia. Hot Springs, SD: Mammoth Site of Hot Springs of South Dakota

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD011_2...
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#89375 May 18, 2013
Intelligent Design Creation theory should include explanations for the beginning of our universe with a body of principles belonging to the subject of it's design. What caused our universe to come into being? Why is our universe arranged and designated to do what it does? Something that is created will show signs of originality of thought and will have meaningful forms. Our universe and Earth shows all the signs of having a Creator.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#89378 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Intelligent Design Creation theory should include explanations for the beginning of our universe with a body of principles belonging to the subject of it's design. What caused our universe to come into being? Why is our universe arranged and designated to do what it does? Something that is created will show signs of originality of thought and will have meaningful forms. Our universe and Earth shows all the signs of having a Creator.
nope.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#89379 May 18, 2013
creationist wrote:
<quoted text>
Better to believe in a god than believing that we came from a rock. Don't tell me that yours makes sense and my doesn't until you can actually prove what you believe.
You're the one that says we came from a rock.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#89380 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Intelligent Design Creation theory should include explanations for the beginning of our universe with a body of principles belonging to the subject of it's design. What caused our universe to come into being? Why is our universe arranged and designated to do what it does? Something that is created will show signs of originality of thought and will have meaningful forms. Our universe and Earth shows all the signs of having a Creator.
Why can't you get this creationism to be elevated to theory? Where is the evidence supporting it? How does knowing the "who" even help us cure Polio?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89381 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Intelligent Design Creation theory should include explanations for the beginning of our universe with a body of principles belonging to the subject of it's design. What caused our universe to come into being? Why is our universe arranged and designated to do what it does? Something that is created will show signs of originality of thought and will have meaningful forms. Our universe and Earth shows all the signs of having a Creator.
such as? i thought it was just mindless repetitive patterns and cycles? you seem to contradict yourself a lot.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#89382 May 18, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Why can't you get this creationism to be elevated to theory? Where is the evidence supporting it? How does knowing the "who" even help us cure Polio?
Understanding how God has patterned systems to work will lead to cures of all kinds.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89383 May 18, 2013
creationist wrote:
<quoted text> wrong carbon dating doesn't work. Want proof? How's this. The found a mammoth in the ice and used carbon dating to date it. They said that one part was older than a different part of the same animal!
I know people who can't use a tape measure properly either...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89384 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Understanding how God has patterned systems to work will lead to cures of all kinds.
how do patterned systems show a god? seems more like a mindless repetition to me. the way a non-living system would act.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#89385 May 18, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how do patterned systems show a god? seems more like a mindless repetition to me. the way a non-living system would act.
Patterns are not mindless direction. All patterns have Reason for being where and what they are and they are a result of a command from the Creator.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89386 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Patterns are not mindless direction. All patterns have Reason for being where and what they are and they are a result of a command from the Creator.
why would you think that? what suggests that? in fact, a repetitive system would be a natural way for a non-designed universe to work, wouldn't it?
HTS

Williston, ND

#89387 May 18, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how do patterned systems show a god? seems more like a mindless repetition to me. the way a non-living system would act.
.

Intelligence is the only observable force in the universe capable of creating complexity.
The existence of the profound complexity of living systems offers irrefutable evidence of intelligent design.
A conclusion that random forces can create complex systems can only be explained by a pre-commitment to the religion of atheism.
It is obvious that the atheists on this forum are religiously committed to their worldview because they willfully abandon scientific observation in favor of evo-fairytales of a primordial soup, worms evolving into humans, etc.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#89388 May 18, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why would you think that? what suggests that? in fact, a repetitive system would be a natural way for a non-designed universe to work, wouldn't it?
No. A system must follow a pattern that has been shown.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89389 May 18, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>.
Intelligence is the only observable force in the universe capable of creating complexity.
The existence of the profound complexity of living systems offers irrefutable evidence of intelligent design.
A conclusion that random forces can create complex systems can only be explained by a pre-commitment to the religion of atheism.
It is obvious that the atheists on this forum are religiously committed to their worldview because they willfully abandon scientific observation in favor of evo-fairytales of a primordial soup, worms evolving into humans, etc.
not even close to true. there is immense complexity in the universe and there isn't one shred of evidence to suggest any intelligence design or created it.

try to stick to the known facts and leave myth out of the discussion.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89390 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>No. A system must follow a pattern that has been shown.
why would you think that?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89391 May 18, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>No. A system must follow a pattern that has been shown.
why do you keep forgetting to add the facts that suggest this assumption of yours?
HTS

Williston, ND

#89392 May 18, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>not even close to true. there is immense complexity in the universe and there isn't one shred of evidence to suggest any intelligence design or created it.
try to stick to the known facts and leave myth out of the discussion.
I said that intelligence is the only OBSERVED force that is proven capable of creating complexity.
You observe the universe and ASSUME that no intelligence created it. Random forces have no proven capacity to create complexity.

I agree, let.s keep myths out of the discussion... Like the MYTH that natural selection can create complexity.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#89393 May 18, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
I said that intelligence is the only OBSERVED force that is proven capable of creating complexity.
You observe the universe and ASSUME that no intelligence created it. Random forces have no proven capacity to create complexity.
I agree, let.s keep myths out of the discussion... Like the MYTH that natural selection can create complexity.
what else besides natural selection would have created diversity. there is no shred of evidence of any guiding intelligence to the universe at all. not one shred. yet there is tons of evidence for natural selection.

and no, i observe the universe and its complaxity and ...again....know that there is not one teensy shred of evidence of any guiding or creating intelligence. not one shred...

so it is just the facts I am dealing with, while it is YOU that keeps bringing your mythical creator/intelligence into the deal.

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