Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#88242 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
This doesn’t prove evolution at all.
Yes, it DOES according to people who actually work in the field, including confirmed, practicing Christians like Francis Collins, Ken Miller and Karl Giberson.

Unlike you, of course, they actually UNDERSTAND what ERVs are and why they are so stunning as proof of evolution.

There are 3 BILLION base pairs in the human genome, therefore 3 BILLION places where that ancient virus could have left its mark. ALL human beings have hundreds of these retroviral markers in EXACTLY THE SAME PLACES in their genome.

Also, other members of the ape family ALSO share these makers with us (orangutans, gorillas, monkeys, etc.) and they too have them in EXACTLY THE SAME PLACES in their genome. by contrast, other mammals such as horse, mice, squirrels, etc. do NTO share these same retroviral makers with us.

The only reasonable explanation for the above is that we share common descent with these members of the ape family and we all evolved form earlier members of the ape family who HAD THESE MARKERS in their genomes and passed them down to us.

You really cannot intelligently spin this any other way.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#88243 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
Published in a 1915 newsletter - you might want to read this.
.
http://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/d...
.
All we have to go on is history - and faith. So take this for what its worth - I'm sure it will spark a few "It's a lie!!" comments. I'm getting the impression that it matters not what is said or presented to you guys - your ultimate defense will always be "You're a liar!".
what you are forgetting , dear, is that each and everyone of your silly ideas, most of which you don't even undertsand yourself, have been clearly proven to be lies.

how would you know if they are the truth in the first place when you are clearly posting things you are not capable of understanding? you are nothing more than a parrot.
KJV

United States

#88244 Apr 28, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>No, you are wrong....I live a sin free life.
Sure you do.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#88245 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Woodtick may be angry with fundies. Since they do tend to lie quite a lot I can see why he feels that way. He does not have any religious beliefs that I know of or any religion at all.
Atheism is not a religion. Atheists do not believe in god because sufficient evidence has never been given to believe in a god. You do not name people for what they don't believe in, it would take years to describe a person if that is the case. For example you are not an Allah denying, anti-Thor, non-Krishna, lapsed-Buddhist..... the list goes on and on. You are a Christian. You believe in Jesus, the trinity (probably) and all that goes with it. When an atheist is asked about his religious beliefs he simple says that he does not have any.
Think of it this way, is not playing football a sport?
why would you think i am angry?
ViaDolorosa

Cumming, GA

#88246 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no "unexplainable miracles". You might not like the explanations, but they are out their. We can show that all of the scientific evidence supports evolution and none of it supports creationism. And evolution does not disprove god. It does not even disprove Jesus and Christianity. There are easy explanations why Jesus might have referred to Noah and Adam. So please, don't think that evolution is anti-Christian. Worldwide most Christians probably do believe the theory of evolution. The high percentage of creationists seems to be a feature of the U.S. and not that of any other civilized country. I am not denying that there are creationists elsewhere in the world, just not in the high percentages that you see here.
.
.
The below recount is just one - in thousands upon thousands, of accounts of unexplained miracles.
.
A newborn baby died shortly after birth - true story - and they were letting the family hold it before taking it to the morgue.
Approximately 20-25 minutes later, the baby began breathing again. The baby was/is fine and suffers no brain damage today.
.
Science says that a human brain cannot ("cannot") go 4 minutes without oxygen before it will suffer damage.
.
.
----------
Unexplainable?
.
Source: Sept 2010 UK http://www.today.com/id/38988444/ns/today-par...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88247 Apr 28, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Most atheists in the U.S. know the Bible much better than most Christians"
Link? Or am I to talk your word for it. LOL
Since I am not a lying fundamentalist you can take my word for it.

I am not like you.

You should know this by now, this has been discussed before, complete with links. And you could have found this out for yourself:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/2...

Yes, even for someone like you, Google is your friend.
KJV

United States

#88248 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Denial. You cannot decide what religion a man has, only that man can. And according to Hitler he was one of you.
Being a Christian is not a club that you can belong to while living a sinful life.
You must turn your life over to God
Something Hitler did not do.
ViaDolorosa

Cumming, GA

#88249 Apr 28, 2013
Another newborn miracle - from 2012 - in Argentina. Newborn baby girl born, lived 20 minutes, then died.
.
Doctors pronounced her dead and took her to the freezer - and that's where she was 12 hours later when her parents went down to get a photo of her for the funeral. They opened the coffin - and touched her hand - and she began to cry.
.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-574130...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#88250 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
Even satan believes in Jesus - so that would mean that he is wiser than atheists.
Sad - and scary.
Yeah Daffy believes in Donald.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88251 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
Published in a 1915 newsletter - you might want to read this.
.
http://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/d...
.
All we have to go on is history - and faith. So take this for what its worth - I'm sure it will spark a few "It's a lie!!" comments. I'm getting the impression that it matters not what is said or presented to you guys - your ultimate defense will always be "You're a liar!".
The deathbed conversion lie has long ago been debunked. Even Answers in Genesis knows that this is a base lie:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009...

By the way, when you quote lying sites people will tend to call you a liar.
KJV

United States

#88252 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Oops, my mistake. You still posted the wrong poll results.

You should know that was not the most recent poll. This is the most recent poll, and it debunks all of your claims:

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...

Atheism in the U.S. is 6% and growing. Worldwide 13% of the population considers themselves to be convinced atheists.

In the U.S. if you add the atheists to those who have no religion or are agnostic and you have 20% of the populaton.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...

A 2010 survey published in Encyclopedia Britannica found that is atheists at about 2.0%.

Another study assessing religiosity among scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.

Sociologist Philip Schwadel found that higher levels of education are associated with increased religious participation and religious practice in daily life.

According to a 2012 report by the Pew Research Center, people describing themselves as "atheist" were 2% of the total population in the US.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_o...

According to the International Bulletin of Missionary Research, an academic journal, "about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day."

Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population

While there are more atheists than ever before as global population continually increases, the atheist percentage of the total population seem to be declining

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religi...

Sources outside of Wikipedia give differing estimates:

The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.39%(of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.74%, Hindu 13.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, atheists 2.01%

persecution. A 2006 study by researchers at the University of Minnesota involving a poll of 2,000 households in the United States found atheists to be the most distrusted of minorities,

In 2012, an article entitled Atheism in decline by Nigel Tomes declared:

In 1970 atheists (those avowing there is no God) numbered 166 million worldwide; that was almost one-in-twenty—4.5% of the globe’s population. By 2012 atheists’ number is estimated at 137 million. That’s a decline of almost 30 million. Since world population is growing, atheists’ share declined to less than one-in-fifty—under 2% in 2012. Put differently, every 24 hours there are 800 fewer atheists in the world! Atheism is in decline.
KJV

United States

#88253 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Lying for Jesus is still lying. Breaking the Ninth Commandment is a sin for Christians.

You know you have nothing.
I know I have something.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88254 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
.
.
The below recount is just one - in thousands upon thousands, of accounts of unexplained miracles.
.
A newborn baby died shortly after birth - true story - and they were letting the family hold it before taking it to the morgue.
Approximately 20-25 minutes later, the baby began breathing again. The baby was/is fine and suffers no brain damage today.
.
Science says that a human brain cannot ("cannot") go 4 minutes without oxygen before it will suffer damage.
.
.
----------
Unexplainable?
.
Source: Sept 2010 UK http://www.today.com/id/38988444/ns/today-par...
Not hardly. The baby was not dead. It had a heartbeat and respiration that was so low that the doctor could not detect it.

No magic needed.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Zhengzhou, China

#88255 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
"Let me ask you this - let's say a man, named John, decides to steal his neighbor's newspaper off his porch.
Does that mean all men named 'John' are a thief? Of course not - the conclusion would be that this particular "John" IS a thief, though, based on HIS decision to steal the newspaper."

Let me ask you this: Let's say a man who has been identified as an Evolutionist decides to kill everyone he considers inferior.
Does that mean all Evolutionists want to kill everyone they consider inferior?
Of course not. The conclusion would be that this particular man identified as an Evolutionist is a eugenist, though, based on HIS decision to kill everyone he sondiers inferior.

Let's be consistent.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88256 Apr 28, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...
A 2010 survey published in Encyclopedia Britannica found that is atheists at about 2.0%.
Another study assessing religiosity among scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.
Sociologist Philip Schwadel found that higher levels of education are associated with increased religious participation and religious practice in daily life.
According to a 2012 report by the Pew Research Center, people describing themselves as "atheist" were 2% of the total population in the US.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_o...
According to the International Bulletin of Missionary Research, an academic journal, "about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day."
Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population
While there are more atheists than ever before as global population continually increases, the atheist percentage of the total population seem to be declining
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religi...
Sources outside of Wikipedia give differing estimates:
The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.39%(of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.74%, Hindu 13.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, atheists 2.01%
persecution. A 2006 study by researchers at the University of Minnesota involving a poll of 2,000 households in the United States found atheists to be the most distrusted of minorities,
In 2012, an article entitled Atheism in decline by Nigel Tomes declared:
In 1970 atheists (those avowing there is no God) numbered 166 million worldwide; that was almost one-in-twenty—4.5% of the globe’s population. By 2012 atheists’ number is estimated at 137 million. That’s a decline of almost 30 million. Since world population is growing, atheists’ share declined to less than one-in-fifty—under 2% in 2012. Put differently, every 24 hours there are 800 fewer atheists in the world! Atheism is in decline.
And those were poorly done polls. Once again, the poll I linked was more intensive, and world wide. Your is at best a collection of polls. Here is the link again:

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...

If you can find a better and more recent poll then let's see it. Mine was taken last year.

Atheism in the U.S. is 6%. Worldwide only 59% of people are religious, 23 % think of themselves as not religious. And another 13% consider themselves convince atheists. Added together that is 36% of the world's population consider themselves either not religious or atheist.

My poll is newer and more thorough than yours.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88258 Apr 28, 2013
Oh my, another Fundy shoots himself in the foot. From this site:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_o...

" The number of atheists is on the rise across the world, with religiosity generally declining.[1] Scientists and in particular eminent scientists are mostly atheists, perhaps the only demographic in the West in which this occurs.[2][3]"

More dishonesty from KJV. From his first article let's look at the complete paragraph, rather than the quote mine:

"
It is difficult to quantify the number of atheists in the world. Respondents to religious-belief polls may define "atheism" differently or draw different distinctions between atheism, non-religious beliefs, and non-theistic religious and spiritual beliefs.[180] A Hindu atheist would declare oneself as a Hindu, although also being an atheist at the same time.[181] A 2010 survey published in Encyclopædia Britannica found that the non-religious made up about 9.6% of the world's population, and atheists about 2.0%. This figure did not include those who follow atheistic religions, such as some Buddhists.[182] A broad figure estimates the number of atheists and agnostics on Earth at 1.1 billion.[183]"

And let's look at the next paragraph while we are at it:

"
A November–December 2006 poll published in the Financial Times gives rates for the United States and five European countries. The lowest rates of atheism were in the United States at only 4%, while the rates of atheism in the European countries surveyed were considerably higher: Italy (7%), Spain (11%), Great Britain (17%), Germany (20%), and France (32%).[25] The European figures are similar to those of an official European Union survey, which reported that 18% of the EU population do not believe in a god.[184] Other studies have placed the estimated percentage of atheists, agnostics, and other nonbelievers in a personal god as low as single digits in Poland, Romania, Cyprus, and some other European countries,[185] and up to 85% in Sweden, 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland.[23] According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 22% of Australians have "no religion", a category that includes atheists.[186] Between 64% and 65%[23] of Japanese and up to 81%[187] of Vietnamese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in a god. A 2012 Gallup survey reported that 13% of people surveyed worldwide self-report to be atheists.[188] In the United States, there was a 1% to 5% increase in self-reported atheism from 2005 to 2012, and a larger drop in those who self-identified as "religious", down by 13%, from 73% to 60%"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...

It looks like KJV has been less than honest even with his own sites.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#88259 Apr 28, 2013
ViaDolorosa wrote:
Published in a 1915 newsletter - you might want to read this.
.
http://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/d...
Unceremoniously rebutted as a LIE by your very own allies at Answers in Genesis!

What Really Happened?

Unfortunately, when the full text of the report is examined, there are many inconsistencies that make the story untenable. While it is possible that Lady Hope did visit Darwin’s home in late 1881, this was almost seven months before his death.5 He was certainly not bedridden for six months before his death. Further, there was nothing to indicate that he was always studying the Bible.

On the Down House property, there was a small summerhouse, but it was too small to accommodate 30 people. There is nothing in his writings to indicate that Darwin ever asked anyone to speak about “Christ Jesus.”

Further, it is fascinating what Lady Hope’s story does not say. It does not say that Darwin renounced evolution. It merely says that Darwin speculated over the outcome of his ideas. He never backed away from evolution. Nor does the Lady Hope story say that Darwin actually became a Christian. The story, even if true, merely claims the Darwin was reading the Bible and made a statement about Christ. Nowhere is there a claim of a saving relationship with the Savior.

As soon as this story became public, the denials from Darwin’s family began (as they did after every supposed “conversion story” became known). In a letter to James Howe, Darwin’s son Francis wrote in 1915:“He [Darwin] could not have become openly and enthusiastically Christian without the knowledge of his family, and no such change occurred.”6

In a letter dated May 28, 1918, Francis again writes:“Lady Hope’s account of my father’s views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but I have not seen any reply.”3
Darwin’s daughter Henrietta wrote in 1922:“I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness.... He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier.”7

Conclusion

Beyond these denials, if the tale were true, why did Darwin’s wife Emma not rejoice in this? She was always troubled by what she perceived as the godless nature of his views. If he indeed repented, why did she not make this known? Also, if the story were credible, why did Lady Hope wait 33 years before relating it, and even then, relating it in a country across the ocean?

Given the weight of evidence, it must be concluded that Lady Hope’s story is unsupportable, even if she did actually visit Darwin. He never became a Christian, and he never renounced evolution.
As much as we would like to believe that he died with a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, it is much more likely that he didn’t. It is unfortunate that the story continues to be promoted by many sincere people who use this in an effort to discredit evolution when many other great arguments exist, including the greatest: the Bible.

Editors’ note: this article was originally published March 31, 2009, and has been republished under the Arguments Christians Should Not Use web series.

[GILLETTE AGAIN] Apparently Lady Hope was a liar. Isn't; that against one of your Jesus' main commandments?

Gee, may you should heed the advice of these "Christians" and make this an "Argument Christians Should Not Use."
LOL!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#88260 Apr 28, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I have something.
I know, but the free clinic can treat you for it, if you are lucky. Remember; herpes is forever.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Zhengzhou, China

#88261 Apr 28, 2013
Now for a discussion on the genetic fallacy:

Would you buy a hair restoration program from me?
You shouldn't, because I am capillarily challenged.
Would you buy a diet and exercise program from me?
You shouldn't, because I am a man of considerable adiposity.

So why do you expect us to buy a program which purports to make better people, if that program shows no evidence of making better people?

I am reminded of Father Divine, a cult leader who provided a commune for his followers in Philadelphia in the 1920's.
He claimed that he and his followers were immortal.
One time, however, a woman in his commune died. He left the follower's dead body lying in place.
He argued that it wasn't his resposibility, because she couldn't have been a true follower of his or she wouldn't have died.
After two weeks, the city of Philadelphia finally gave in and removed the body.
From then on, the city was quick to act upon any further fatalities.
Finally, Father Divine himself died.
A few of his followers remained, arguing that his spirit was living on, but they were fooling no one but themselves.

If you ask me, Father Divine was wrong in claiming immortality for himself and his followers.

So what's the diff?
ViaDolorosa

Cumming, GA

#88262 Apr 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The deathbed conversion lie has long ago been debunked. Even Answers in Genesis knows that this is a base lie:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009...
By the way, when you quote lying sites people will tend to call you a liar.
.
No - it hasn't been "debunked" - it has been "denied" by atheists, that's all.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Do you have a Topix crush? (Jun '11) 6 min Sublime1 7,987
A To Z Of Movies (Sep '12) 7 min CJ Rocker 4,185
last word - first (Jun '12) 8 min Vector aka Victor... 7,210
Word Association 2 (Sep '13) 9 min Mega Monster 6,715
Change-one-of-six-letters (Dec '12) 10 min CJ Rocker 3,766
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 10 min Proud To Be Trina 150,995
One word~~multiple meanings! (Oct '13) 12 min -CatCiao- 717
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 42 min Grace Nerissa 37,480
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 2 hr -Lea- 23,923
Bill Cosby 3 hr FTW Forever 176

Weird People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE