Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#86046 Apr 12, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You write:
“Your science and you claim that the universes is 13.7 billion or 14 billion or 15 billion years old give or take. The exact date is not important at all.
The fact is you and your science agree on one very important item. That item is the universe had a start, A beginning.“
You are right the exact date is not important; in fact the exact date is impossible to determine. As far as the beginning goes, we ‘think’ it had a beginning 14+- billion years ago
You write:
“The word universe means all matter and space and energy, not that is known but ALL matter, space & energy that would include Multi verses.”
I don’t know that this is true, and I don’t believe you do either. Are you a physicist like Stephen Hawking?
You write:
“So we have a date that science and you agree that the Universe (ALL matter, Space & energy) started. Before the start of the universe there was no matter or space or energy because if there was then there would have been the universe and hence no beginning date that science and you claim was about 14 billion years ago ( give or take a few billion ). So this brings us to the same point that you laugh at Theist about. Your universe model sprang fourth from nothingness.”
Yes, this is the data that those scientists in the field hold. It sprang from essentially nothing, or a miniscule point of energy. I’m not a physicist so you need to go easy on me here..:-)
I do see where you’re going with this.
You write:
“Nothing then poof everything.
But in your case there is nothing or no reason for this magic to have happened.”
I think it is entirely possible that sometime in the future a genius physicist may solve the problem, so we’ll just have to wait for that moment.
I think your God and our universe are inscrutable. Actually at this time I think your God is not real. We understand that the universe is true because we live in it and can see millions/billions of various points of data in it. We know we humans are made of star stuff, as we have a small bit of knowledge about how the universe works.
Your God is a real mystery. He has never shown himself, or done anything at all to prove his existence. His book, the Bible, is being shown to be nothing but myth/stories with some little connections to historical characters and places. ALL the foundational stories that set ‘Him’ up as the creator of our world and us humans are being proven wrong. It’s going to be interesting to follow what happens in the coming years.
Interesting that you think that when Jesus tells us that we are in no position to judge anybody, you think that is a fable?, you think that is something worthless?
Mark

United States

#86047 Apr 12, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot Pol Pot in Cambodia. I don't know how many he killed, but it was in the millions, and as far as I know he was an atheists.
Do you know about the Christian wars? I doubt they killed as many as Stalin (he was a real true sociopath), but their death toll WAS in the millions and was absolutely uncalled for, and I really doubt that 'God' was behind ANY of it.
As late as the early 1800's the Catholics tried (probably succeeded in some cases), to kill people for blasphemy or heresy in some countries. They still tell politicians how the government should regulate marriage and sexual practices. And they are still responsible for thousands of deaths in Africa by their outmoded birth control policies among the poor.
There are always going to be bad and evil people plotting to take over and it always involves killing. Like Hitler, some will use religion, and some are just sociopaths and don't give a sh!t for human life.
Remember that atheists are tremendously UNDER represented in jails and prisons. We are generally good people...we just don't believe your myths.
There are a thousand cases where God fearing leaders stepped in at the right moment and prevented a conflict and/or slaughter- nuclear included. I agree with you that people are people, there are those of a good heart and those that are heartless regardless of their advertized faith. Where does this kindness come from? Accidents? Evolution completely fails at this point. If it is driven by survival of the fittest as Hitler believed its all backwards, where did the higher conciseness of love and kindness come from? I say God.

We Christians are to follow Christ, he turned away from power, revenge and fame, why? Because he understood the big picture and that people fail, are failures and need an example. The best of us are an image of what God is. Evil and free will are realities but God is not to be blamed for the bad that happens in this temporal world by the hand of evil men. It is finite and will be changed one day soon. As far as right and wrong, He is Creator and makes the rules. Human emotions are designed by God to establish marraige and family, playing games with these lead to destruction and pain for all those envolved but soceity wants its way. As I mentioned once before, when Ivan was ordered to attack the Germans deadly defenses, many "atheists" burned their party cards and made little crosses out of tin cans, you see, there is no hope in nothingness and the emotion of hope is as real as a bullet and also God designed. That was no myth to them, what would you do?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Twin Cities

#86048 Apr 12, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting that you think that when Jesus tells us that we are in no position to judge anybody, you think that is a fable?, you think that is something worthless?
No, actually I think that is really good pious authorship.

Jesus has some good lines in the Bible, but the God behind him is a real asshole...an evil malicious killer. But them I remember its all just made up. A force used to control the masses, and earn a buck or two.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86049 Apr 12, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>They like to use the old attorney trick of assaulting/trying to discredit the character of the witness when they have no backing argument.
Ofcourse. The lord is your strength, amen. Keep up the good work!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86050 Apr 12, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>1 Corinthians 6:20.. both our body and our spirit belong to God.We are just borrowing it while here on earth
Ofcourse. But i just want the guy to understand that, God despite been our creator, has given us the free will to make any choices we deem it fit.
It is now left for us to choose what is right or wrong, while God will be at his throne watching.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86051 Apr 12, 2013
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>HAHAHA!! Another good knee slapper Chuckie!
That is another laughter in disguise.
You lose again.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86052 Apr 13, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mutation is Not about suddenly growing gills"
It's not the color of eyes!
And is more along the lines of gills then eye color.
No. Its about changes to the nucleotide sequence, large or small.

The EFFECTS of some mutations might be to change eye colour. Or lengthen a limb slightly. Or increase the bone density in the nose. etc etc etc Whether this changes the odds of survival is what determines whether such a change gets selected for or against.

But the effects of MOST mutations is exactly zero.

That is biology as understood by biologists. Not your comic book "grow a pair of gills, you pussy!" scenario.

Growing a pair of gills would be the result of a long series of small mutations, most or all of which would offer some slight benefit along the way even if that benefit is not actually "gills" until very late in the development. The earlier stages might be providing some other function or an intermediate one.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86053 Apr 13, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a thousand cases where God fearing leaders stepped in at the right moment and prevented a conflict and/or slaughter- nuclear included. I agree with you that people are people, there are those of a good heart and those that are heartless regardless of their advertized faith. Where does this kindness come from? Accidents? Evolution completely fails at this point. If it is driven by survival of the fittest as Hitler believed its all backwards, where did the higher conciseness of love and kindness come from? I say God.
We Christians are to follow Christ, he turned away from power, revenge and fame, why? Because he understood the big picture and that people fail, are failures and need an example. The best of us are an image of what God is. Evil and free will are realities but God is not to be blamed for the bad that happens in this temporal world by the hand of evil men. It is finite and will be changed one day soon. As far as right and wrong, He is Creator and makes the rules. Human emotions are designed by God to establish marraige and family, playing games with these lead to destruction and pain for all those envolved but soceity wants its way. As I mentioned once before, when Ivan was ordered to attack the Germans deadly defenses, many "atheists" burned their party cards and made little crosses out of tin cans, you see, there is no hope in nothingness and the emotion of hope is as real as a bullet and also God designed. That was no myth to them, what would you do?
Love for your fellows and being trustworthy and valuing trustworthiness in others and punishing lying or lack of reciprocity in dealing and so on and so on are ALL positive survival characteristics. We are a social species. Even a social order - many primates show these characteristics, because a group that functions well together improves the survival odds of each member.

Even the vaunted love and loyalty of dogs can be attributed to the same thing. That is how they behave with each other in a pack - transferring their kin-loyalty to humans was pretty easy. A dog thinks its part of a pack when it joins a human family.

I don't think any of that depends on directives from a sky wizard.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86054 Apr 13, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Now back to us.
Your science and you claim that the universes is 13.7 billion or 14 billion or 15 billion years old give or take. The exact date is not important at all.
The fact is you and your science agree on one very important item. That item is the universe had a start, A beginning.
The word universe means all matter and space and energy, not that is known but ALL matter, space & energy that would include Multi verses.
So we have a date that science and you agree that the Universe (ALL matter, Space & energy) started. Before the start of the universe there was no matter or space or energy because if there was then there would have been the universe and hence no beginning date that science and you claim was about 14 billion years ago ( give or take a few billion ). So this brings us to the same point that you laugh at Theist about. Your universe model sprang fourth from nothingness.
Nothing then poof everything.
But in your case there is nothing or no reason for this magic to have happened.
Christians have a big advantage to your beliefs we know why and how.
Science is honest enough to say that before the big bang - we don't know. Nobody does, including you.

Instead of admitting it, you pretend you have an answer in "God", yet all you have done is move the question back one step.

The reality is that nobody knows why there is anything, and "God" is not an answer.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86055 Apr 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And lastly but not the least, do not run away from the truth. We all have free will to decide which way to go or follow, " atheism ", or, " theism ".
No, coward, you are running from the question.

If God is omniscient, knowing all the future, then He has no Free Will.

What makes you think you do, if God does not?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86056 Apr 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>And what effect has your hooting got to do with the validity of the story of the Christians spread? None.
Next ?
You have no good evidence for your assertions about Jesus, so you stoop to lying and claiming sources that do not exist. You even claimed Pliny was a witness until I pointed out that this was impossible.

But I am really not concerned that you choose to believe in Jesus. Only that you feel the need to deny valid science because of it. Many Christians are not so silly as needing to believe in a literal Genesis in order to believe in Jesus.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86057 Apr 13, 2013
Mary Magdalena wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
"our universe is part of something larger: a multiverse."
This writer does not know common definition of words used daily in science.
And you quote him. LOL
Follow the piper.
As our understanding changes, our definitions must change.

There was a time only 100 years ago, when universe and galaxy were thought to be synonymous.

The term multiverse is considered appropriate to include entities that may exist outside the domain of our own Big Bang. Physicists are perfectly comfortable with the term and its common usage now.

Get over it. When new ideas form, new words are coined to denote them.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86058 Apr 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> If humans knows that doing wrong will lead to disaster, we will never dare that, but yet people still find themselves daring that, why?
God has given us that free will to decide which way we want to follow.
Are you the owner of your life?
Still does not answer the question.

God has no Free Will.

How do you know that you do?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86059 Apr 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, coward, you are running from the question.
If God is omniscient, knowing all the future, then He has no Free Will.
What makes you think you do, if God does not?
You are already dying many thousand times before your real death. Now listen Chimes, God is a God of patience that is very slow to anger, he has his own time of dealing with us all, so you are very free to make any form of noises you deem it fit.
God like our parents has given us all free wills to choose between good or bad, " Atheism ", or " Theism ".

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86060 Apr 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no good evidence for your assertions about Jesus, so you stoop to lying and claiming sources that do not exist. You even claimed Pliny was a witness until I pointed out that this was impossible.
But I am really not concerned that you choose to believe in Jesus. Only that you feel the need to deny valid science because of it. Many Christians are not so silly as needing to believe in a literal Genesis in order to believe in Jesus.
Foul!!!
Any Christian that denies the existence of Christ is a farce. Christ whether you or any one likes it or not, existed and he is the saviour of mankind.
And again, the accounts of Jesus was very accurate despite the Jewish and Roman set up, but nothing can ever be hidden under the sun.
The same Roman power then paved way for the spread the gospel of Christ, which cuts accross all nations on earth.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86061 Apr 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Still does not answer the question.
God has no Free Will.
How do you know that you do?
Just admit your ignorance. If God has no free will, why do we die, when in reality we don't want to?
And again, are you the owner of your life? Ofcourse no, because no one knows his or her hours of death.
So, that is where God is far more higher than us.
So, go on with your hooting.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#86062 Apr 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Just admit your ignorance. If God has no free will, why do we die, when in reality we don't want to?
And again, are you the owner of your life? Ofcourse no, because no one knows his or her hours of death.
So, that is where God is far more higher than us.
So, go on with your hooting.
why do you stick with this silly argument? we die because we are mortal animals and they all die.

your mythical god has nothing to do with it.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#86063 Apr 13, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Woody, let it go, ok?
You believe or don't believe whatever you want!
Quit the cowpie slinging!
quit bringing your cult into the discussion and i will.

the only cowpies thrown here start with chapter and verse...

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#86064 Apr 13, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why do you stick with this silly argument? we die because we are mortal animals and they all die.
your mythical god has nothing to do with it.
Free will, free saying, freedom of speech, expression and democracy, etc.
Now you mentioned mortal, what about immortal?
Just admit the fact that, you an atheist who hates to hear about the truth and the things of God.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#86065 Apr 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Free will, free saying, freedom of speech, expression and democracy, etc.
Now you mentioned mortal, what about immortal?
Just admit the fact that, you an atheist who hates to hear about the truth and the things of God.
none of those freedoms have anything to do with your mythical cult or your mythical god.

there is nothing immortal that we have any evidence of .

you have yet to provide any truth from your cult. so farm they are all provable lies.

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