Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85366 Apr 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Sorry, the Ancient Egyptians were more of Christians than any other faiths, until the Muslims hijacked that. Thank God for the Copts( Coptic Christians).
Charles Idemi wrote:
And they were predominantly Christians, until the Muslims hijacked that.
Your historical revisionism aside, all the appeals to popularity in the world don't change the fact that the Egyptian pantheon has far more in the way of archaeological sites of significance than you do. Which was the original point you dishonestly decided to dodge.

Note how when someone else has more evidence than you you resort to logical fallacies like argumentum ad populum or claim it's all a great big Jewish/Muslim/atheist conspiracy. That's not a good show for your case Chuck.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85367 Apr 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Like i said, there were Jewish conspiracies.
The Arabs, Assyrians and other tribes confirmed his existence. Who are you to challenge that.
I am the guy who's pointing out that Jewish conspiracies wiping out all the evidence you need is NOT our problem.(shrug)

Oh by the way, your second sentence contradicts your first. This means you're lying. But then you already know that. And so does everyone else.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85368 Apr 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Lol
so, a Christian managed to secure the emperor's position?
How?
Probably killed the last one.(shrug)
Charles Idemi wrote:
Just admit your ignorance.
Don't have to. I'm not the one claiming a religion's popularity equates to validity.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85369 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
Subduction Zone"]<quoted text> No, it doesn't.
(The Question was "does science date the universe?")
You really sure about that answer?
Yup. As your own linky demonstrated.

Of course since you're reality denier I guess it's unfair for us to expect you to be able to read.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85370 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You really have two choices.
1) the universe self started from nothing
e.g. Magic
2) there was a creator.
Actually you are totally wrong. First off, your number 2 IS magic. Second, these are the actual choices:

1 - The universe started naturally. It had no cause.

2 - The universe started naturally. It had a cause.

3 - Goddidit with magic.

4 - A currently unknown fourth option which no-one has conceived yet.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85371 Apr 8, 2013
rpk58 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not a new idea - the idea of God being formless. If you look through the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity, you can find many places where the idea that the true form of God is beyond our understanding is brought out.
The problem is that all fundies claim to have divine knowledge that other people do not have.

Funnily enough not one fundie has ever been able to demonstrate it. Not on these threads at least.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85372 Apr 8, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
TIP ABSOLUTE TRUTH SEEKERS:
Since we know GOD is an absolute truth you must accept ONLY absolute truths to know GOD true nature. NO EXCEPTIONS!
You got to reach deep on this one and soon you will realize you don't need faith or any religious quotes that do not speak in absolute truths (violate the law of non-contradiction).
You must only accept absolute truths to up-hold GOD ways in this corrupted world in its way of thinking!
The problem being that only God (assuming it even exists at all) would know absolute truth. If a God does not exist, it is still possible that absolute truth exists, except the only problem is that it is unknowable.

And since you are an imperfect being and not God I reject all your claims to any such knowledge.
Infinite Force wrote:
Apply the law of non-contradiction (GOD LAW) to the constitution of the United States of America.
Now are we able to choose what we want to do without violating the “Law of non-contradiction”!
ABSOLUTE FREEDOM under the law of non-contradiction as the foundation of our constitution is what we want!
Sorry, but any "God law" violates the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. This is because it guarantees both freedom of and freedom from religion. Therefore your law can only be implemented if you hate America.

Why do you hate America, Curtis?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85373 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Yeah, isn't it funny that GOD let more than half of the old Roman, Christian Empire fall to the Muslim infidels in a few short years, turning millions of Christians into Muslims which by your belief system means they should be on their way to hell instead of heaven."
You seem to have a hard time with the free will concept that God gave man.
Only because it violates Curtis' "LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION!" Surely we cannot allow that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85374 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school.
It is treated as a religion for Constitutional legal purposes so that the rights of atheists as a group can be maintained, along with those of non-atheist groups.
KJV wrote:
Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
Oh dear. Sorry K, but ALL science is "materialistic". When was the last time you saw an official weather report on TV seriously claiming that hurricane hilda is due to the Gods being angry?

Turns out you tried that line of argumentation in court multiple times.

You STILL lost.

Teaching science you don't like is not the same as teaching atheism.

So every time you complain about "non-materialistic dogma" all you're REALLY saying is Goddidit with magic.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85376 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean without a creator?
That would be by your definition MAGIC!
Nope. Your creator is magic because you propose a who with zero mechanisms other than magic poof.

Just because you can't personally grasp the idea of the universe coming into existence without a god doesn't mean that your argument from incredulity is valid.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#85377 Apr 8, 2013
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>His arse.
Always learn to say meaningful things. Ok, Crappy?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85378 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Why couldn't the universe exist on its own? "
Did the universe always exist?
Your science claims a age to the universe. The universe is everything. So there had to be nothing before the universe. The laws of our universe does not allow something to come from nothing.
It had to then be created.
Actually in our universe we have scientifically observed particle/anti-particle pairs spontaneously appearing in a vacuum. There is no cause. This is not a problem within the model of quantum physics although it is not consistent with classical Newtonian mechanics.

Not that this should be a problem for you, since under God, mechanics schmechanics. Nothing matters.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85379 Apr 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"And KJV, what is the difference between your creator and magic? It can be shown how the universe can come from nothing from understanding the laws of physics."
In your eyes there would be no difference. However magic could not exist if there was nothing. Nothing is a complete void of everything.
You believe all that ever existed sprang fourth out of nothingness.
I claim it was all created.
... by an invisible magic Jew wizard who poofed it all into existence cuz it sez so in this old book that says donkeys and lizards talk and that the Earth is a flat square circle at the center of a geocentric universe.
Elohim

Branford, CT

#85380 Apr 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Always learn to say meaningful things. Ok, Crappy?
I always do. Too bad you don't heed your own advice. Ok Dipshitt?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85381 Apr 8, 2013
Mary Magdalena wrote:
<quoted text>
"rather sad that you think you are perfect.."
When God created man, he created him perfect. Man sinned and brought death into the world. So we are not perfect any longer.
Mary Magdalena wrote:
<quoted text>
I was created whole and perfect.
So you're perfectly imperfect. Thought so.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85382 Apr 8, 2013
Mary Magdalena wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not a Freudian slip. I am perfect. one of the lucky few. But sin is what caused you to be born less then perfect.
You're not lucky, just ridiculously self-involved. In fact your ego probably shatters door frames everywhere you walk.(shrug)
KJV

United States

#85383 Apr 8, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>**********
ry
Did Jesus Really Exist?
By Paul L. Maier, The Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University

External Evidence: Jewish

The Jewish rabbinical traditions not only mention Jesus, but they are also the only sources that spell his name accurately in Aramaic, his native tongue: Yeshua Hannotzri—Joshua (Jesus) of Nazareth. Some of the references to Jesus in the Talmud are garbled—probably due to the vagaries of oral tradition—but one is especially accurate, since it seems based on written sources and comes from the Mishna—the earliest collection of writings in theTalmud. This is no less than the arrest notice for Jesus, which runs as follows:

He shall be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and lured Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. Anyone who knows where he is, let him declare it to the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem.

Four items in this statement strongly support its authenticity as a notice composed before Jesus' arrest: 1) The future tense is used; 2) Stoning was the regular punishment for blasphemy among the Jews whenever the Roman government was not involved; 3) There is no reference whatever to crucifixion; and 4) That Jesus was performing "sorcery"— the extraordinary or miraculous with a negative spin—is quite remarkable. This not only invokes what historians call the "criterion of embarrassment," which proves what is conceded, but accords perfectly with how Jesus' opponents explained away his miraculous healings: performing them with the help of Beelzebul (Luke 11:18).

Moreover, the first-century Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus, twice mentions "Jesus who is called the Christ" in his Jewish Antiquities. In the second of these, he tells of the death of Jesus' half-brother James the Just of Jerusalem (20:200). And two books earlier, in the longest first-century non-biblical reference to Christ, he tells of Jesus midway through his discussion of events in Pontius Pilate's administration:

More......

External Evidence: Secular

Cornelius Tacitus, one of the most reliable source historians of first-century Rome, wrote in his Annals a year-by-year account of events in the Roman Empire under the early Caesars. Among the highlights that he reports for the year A.D. 64 was the great fire of Rome. People blamed the emperor Nero for this conflagration since it happened "on his watch," but in order to save himself, Nero switched the blame to "the Christians," which is the first time they appear in secular history. Careful historian that he was, Tacitus then explains who "the Christians" were: "Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus" (15:44). He then goes on to report the horrors that were inflicted on the Christians in what became their first Roman persecution.

Tacitus, it should be emphasized, was not some Christian historian who was trying to prove that Jesus Christ really lived, but a pagan who despised Christians as a "disease," a term he uses later in the passage. Had Jesus never even existed, he would have been the first to expose that pathetic phantom on whom such cultists placed their trust. Were no other references to Jesus available, this passage alone would have been sufficient to establish his historicity. Skeptics realize this, and so have tried every imaginable means to discredit this passage—but to no avail. Manuscript analysis and computer studies have never found any reason to call this sentence into question, nor its context.

For More see his full article.


Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#85384 Apr 8, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Despite the conspiracies among the Christian authorities in collaborations with the Roman power, the stories of Mohammed still went far. Truth can never be denied or killed, it must reveal it self one day!
You mean went far, through jihad or holy war( bloodshed). Interesting!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#85385 Apr 8, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Chuck, don't go NEAR that irony meter.
Likewise.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#85386 Apr 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no, you have been shown the proof time and time again on these pages. the god of your cult is made up of proven lies. he is a myth.
there could possibly be a god out there, it is as unprovable as the existence of the flying spaghetti monster, but there is not the god of your cult, that has been proven. you are worshiping to a lie.
Keep on listening to the lies of your cult, Woody.
Next crap?

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