Evolution vs. Creation

There are 163773 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

KJV

United States

#85270 Apr 7, 2013
wow wrote:
wow
Funny

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85271 Apr 7, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Likewise.
Your cult lied to you.
i do not belong to a cult.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85272 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
What did it spring out of before anything existed?
If something existed then it was the universe. What existed before the universe.
Definition of the universe:
The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, including planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, and all matter and energy.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
exactly it was the universe before it expanded.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#85273 Apr 7, 2013
TIP ABSOLUTE TRUTH SEEKERS:

Since we know GOD is an absolute truth you must accept ONLY absolute truths to know GOD true nature. NO EXCEPTIONS!
You got to reach deep on this one and soon you will realize you don't need faith or any religious quotes that do not speak in absolute truths (violate the law of non-contradiction).

You must only accept absolute truths to up-hold GOD ways in this corrupted world in its way of thinking!

Apply the law of non-contradiction (GOD LAW) to the constitution of the United States of America.
Now are we able to choose what we want to do without violating the “Law of non-contradiction”!
ABSOLUTE FREEDOM under the law of non-contradiction as the foundation of our constitution is what we want!

KJV

United States

#85274 Apr 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>It amazes me that you could honestly believe that the Lord and Creator of energy, matter, time, and space - even the concept of three spatial dimensions, in which a 3-D body must exit...could actually HAVE a physical form that He reproduced in some sort of cute miniature for humans.

A creator of the whole idea and substance of "form" could not be of any particular form itself. Perhaps more intelligent readers would understand that by "in his image" was meant the ability to think and perceive and create, or to act with free will. That would at least make some kind of superficial sense compared to imagining God as literally some super duper human form. How can you be so silly????
"could actually HAVE a physical form that He reproduced in some sort of cute miniature for humans"

This is a good point. But according to the Bible, God has shown his face or himself to many humans though out time. While he most likely doesn't hold this form it seems to be the form he chooses to manifest himself as.

"Perhaps more intelligent readers would understand that by "in his image" was meant the ability to think and perceive and create, or to act with free will"

It is conceivable. You could also be correct somethings we will never know in this life. I would not rule out either possibility.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85275 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"could actually HAVE a physical form that He reproduced in some sort of cute miniature for humans"
This is a good point. But according to the Bible, God has shown his face or himself to many humans though out time. While he most likely doesn't hold this form it seems to be the form he chooses to manifest himself as.
"Perhaps more intelligent readers would understand that by "in his image" was meant the ability to think and perceive and create, or to act with free will"
It is conceivable. You could also be correct somethings we will never know in this life. I would not rule out either possibility.
but the bible if full of known lies so why would any rational person believe anything in it?

believing what a known cult tells you is not the thought process of a healthy mind.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#85276 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets look at the second one.
"Matter cannot exist outside the universe"
What do you think the the universe is?
The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, including planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, and all matter and energy.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
That is a poor definition, correctly it os....
"The universe is comprised of all "known" in existence."
We are cocooned in it though , so we do not know it anything is outside the space/time continuum we are in.
But it doesn't mean it's not possible there is not something else, an outside of of it or another one , and even that this one is not part of a larger one.

We could even be inside a black hole created by another universe.
For layman terms it is all existing matter and energy + dimensions of space/time to the limits of our perception and measure.
But this was once thought to be only the milky way.
The definitions change with discovery , so there is no actual limitation of what could be. We just haven't discovered it yet.

Relativity restricts our ability to detect beyond these limitations we define as the Observable Universe , but not our minds to them. We simply cannot yet say if there is an outside to it.


Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85277 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You really have two choices.
1) the universe self started from nothing
e.g. Magic
2) there was a creator.
In answer to your long post to be technical we have no evidence of any universe before the Big Bang. That may or may not have been the start of the universe, and we may never know. The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree. It is not settled science. Most of the sources you quoted were giving abbreviated answers since they are for very general audiences. For all practical purposes the Big Bang was the start of the universe.

Now in this post you have a false dichotomy. Physicists have known for some time that the concept of "nothing" is impossible in our universe. I am sure that this has been linked before, but I am linking it yet again. It explains how a universe can come from nothing and still follow all of the laws of physics:

KJV

United States

#85278 Apr 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, isn't it funny that GOD let more than half of the old Roman, Christian Empire fall to the Muslim infidels in a few short years, turning millions of Christians into Muslims which by your belief system means they should be on their way to hell instead of heaven.

Muslims of course interpret their rapid takeover of Syria, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco and even Spain, then Turkey, Greece, and the Balkins, as obvious evidence that GOD was on their side, not the Christians. And there are only a few Christians left in Egypt - instead of NONE - because they were tolerant of Christians, though they encourage them still to understand the truth of the Quran.

Why do you think GOD let all those millions get condemned to a religion of hell?
"Yeah, isn't it funny that GOD let more than half of the old Roman, Christian Empire fall to the Muslim infidels in a few short years, turning millions of Christians into Muslims which by your belief system means they should be on their way to hell instead of heaven."

You seem to have a hard time with the free will concept that God gave man.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85279 Apr 7, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
TIP ABSOLUTE TRUTH SEEKERS:
Since we know GOD is an absolute truth you must accept ONLY absolute truths to know GOD true nature. NO EXCEPTIONS!
You got to reach deep on this one and soon you will realize you don't need faith or any religious quotes that do not speak in absolute truths (violate the law of non-contradiction).
You must only accept absolute truths to up-hold GOD ways in this corrupted world in its way of thinking!
Apply the law of non-contradiction (GOD LAW) to the constitution of the United States of America.
Now are we able to choose what we want to do without violating the “Law of non-contradiction”!
ABSOLUTE FREEDOM under the law of non-contradiction as the foundation of our constitution is what we want!
Wrong right off the bat.

You assume "god is absolute truth".

Claims presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. What evidence do you have to support this claim?

You keep misapplying your "law of noncontradiction" that makes its use meaningless.
KJV

United States

#85280 Apr 7, 2013
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>Booooooooooooonnnnnnnn nnngggggggggggg

Yes, for someone who is only capable of binary logic, as most conservatives are, that might be your dichotomy of how the universe started......

however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......

the only way the universe could start from magic if there was a creator....which begs the question.....where did the creator come from.....

its turtles all the way down.
"however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......"

Bawhahahaha..........

Pretty funny!:)
KJV

United States

#85281 Apr 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i do not belong to a cult.
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.

ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:

The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85282 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
good thing i'm not an atheist then...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85283 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......"
Bawhahahaha..........
Pretty funny!:)
And why can't a universe start from nothing?

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#85284 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
LOL.

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#85285 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
Wow talk about taking things out of context. The case you are referring to had to do with a prisoner who said his rights were violated when he was not allowed to form a group to discuss atheism like other prisoners were allowed to do according to their religious beliefs. The court ruled that

"... whether atheism is a 'religion' for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture."

"Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by ... God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003)('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

"The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a 'religion' for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions"
They referred to another Supreme Court decision (Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985)), where the court said:

"At one time it was thought that this right [referring to the right to choose one’s own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."

the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals hasn't declared atheism to be a religion as the layperson might usually define it, they simply acknowledged that atheism hold equal standing with religions with regard to the First Amendment.

as for public schools teaching dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins

Sorry Dude, but I hate to tell you this, most chrisitans and other deists believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution. Its only the wacko evangelical fundamentalist crowd that refuses to accept science
KJV

United States

#85286 Apr 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>That is a poor definition, correctly it os....
"The universe is comprised of all "known" in existence."
We are cocooned in it though , so we do not know it anything is outside the space/time continuum we are in.
But it doesn't mean it's not possible there is not something else, an outside of of it or another one , and even that this one is not part of a larger one.

We could even be inside a black hole created by another universe.
For layman terms it is all existing matter and energy + dimensions of space/time to the limits of our perception and measure.
But this was once thought to be only the milky way.
The definitions change with discovery , so there is no actual limitation of what could be. We just haven't discovered it yet.

Relativity restricts our ability to detect beyond these limitations we define as the Observable Universe , but not our minds to them. We simply cannot yet say if there is an outside to it.
The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, including planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, and all matter and energy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

Translate universe | into French | into German |into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of universe
noun
1 (the universe) all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
Origin:
late Middle English: from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus 'combined into one, whole', from uni-'one'+ versus 'turned'(past participle of vertere)

universe in other Oxford dictionaries
Definition of universe in the US English dictionary

http://www.definitions.net/definition/univers...

universe, existence, creation, world, cosmos, macrocosm(noun)
everything that exists anywhere
"they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/universe

Main Entry: uni·verse
Pronunciation:\ˈyü-nə-ˌvə rs\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin universum, from neuter ofuniversus entire, whole, from uni-+versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn — more at worth
Date: 14th century
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated :cosmos: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1): the entire celestial cosmos (2): milky way galaxy (3):an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy 2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization 3 : population 4 4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem5 : a great number or quantity <a large enough universe of stocks … to choose from — G. B. Clairmont>

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#85287 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
Hey, that may be good news....I wwonder if the IRS agrees that atheism is a religion. Do you think they will give me tax exempt status
KJV

United States

#85288 Apr 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>In answer to your long post to be technical we have no evidence of any universe before the Big Bang. That may or may not have been the start of the universe, and we may never know. The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree. It is not settled science. Most of the sources you quoted were giving abbreviated answers since they are for very general audiences. For all practical purposes the Big Bang was the start of the universe.

Now in this post you have a false dichotomy. Physicists have known for some time that the concept of "nothing" is impossible in our universe. I am sure that this has been linked before, but I am linking it yet again. It explains how a universe can come from nothing and still follow all of the laws of physics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =0ZiXC8Yh4T0XX
" The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree"

Because it's rather difficult to talk about before the existence of everything I will use words suggesting time when I am totally aware there was no time at that time.

Now for the universe to come into existence while there was nothing proves a creator sense you all agree there is no such thing as magic.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85289 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
" The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree"
Because it's rather difficult to talk about before the existence of everything I will use words suggesting time when I am totally aware there was no time at that time.
Now for the universe to come into existence while there was nothing proves a creator sense you all agree there is no such thing as magic.
but there wasn't nothing...there was everything.

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