Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221445 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

KJV

United States

#85280 Apr 7, 2013
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>Booooooooooooonnnnnnnn nnngggggggggggg

Yes, for someone who is only capable of binary logic, as most conservatives are, that might be your dichotomy of how the universe started......

however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......

the only way the universe could start from magic if there was a creator....which begs the question.....where did the creator come from.....

its turtles all the way down.
"however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......"

Bawhahahaha..........

Pretty funny!:)
KJV

United States

#85281 Apr 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i do not belong to a cult.
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.

ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:

The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85282 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
good thing i'm not an atheist then...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85283 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"however, the Universe did start from nothing, only there was no magic involved......"
Bawhahahaha..........
Pretty funny!:)
And why can't a universe start from nothing?

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#85284 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
LOL.

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#85285 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
Wow talk about taking things out of context. The case you are referring to had to do with a prisoner who said his rights were violated when he was not allowed to form a group to discuss atheism like other prisoners were allowed to do according to their religious beliefs. The court ruled that

"... whether atheism is a 'religion' for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture."

"Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by ... God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003)('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

"The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a 'religion' for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions"
They referred to another Supreme Court decision (Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985)), where the court said:

"At one time it was thought that this right [referring to the right to choose ones own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."

the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals hasn't declared atheism to be a religion as the layperson might usually define it, they simply acknowledged that atheism hold equal standing with religions with regard to the First Amendment.

as for public schools teaching dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins

Sorry Dude, but I hate to tell you this, most chrisitans and other deists believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution. Its only the wacko evangelical fundamentalist crowd that refuses to accept science
KJV

United States

#85286 Apr 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>That is a poor definition, correctly it os....
"The universe is comprised of all "known" in existence."
We are cocooned in it though , so we do not know it anything is outside the space/time continuum we are in.
But it doesn't mean it's not possible there is not something else, an outside of of it or another one , and even that this one is not part of a larger one.

We could even be inside a black hole created by another universe.
For layman terms it is all existing matter and energy + dimensions of space/time to the limits of our perception and measure.
But this was once thought to be only the milky way.
The definitions change with discovery , so there is no actual limitation of what could be. We just haven't discovered it yet.

Relativity restricts our ability to detect beyond these limitations we define as the Observable Universe , but not our minds to them. We simply cannot yet say if there is an outside to it.
The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence, including planets, stars, galaxies, the contents of intergalactic space, and all matter and energy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

Translate universe | into French | into German |into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of universe
noun
1 (the universe) all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.
Origin:
late Middle English: from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus 'combined into one, whole', from uni-'one'+ versus 'turned'(past participle of vertere)

universe in other Oxford dictionaries
Definition of universe in the US English dictionary

http://www.definitions.net/definition/univers...

universe, existence, creation, world, cosmos, macrocosm(noun)
everything that exists anywhere
"they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence.

http://i.word.com/idictionary/universe

Main Entry: uni·verse
Pronunciation:\ˈyü-nə-ˌvə rs\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin universum, from neuter ofuniversus entire, whole, from uni-+versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn — more at worth
Date: 14th century
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated :cosmos: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1): the entire celestial cosmos (2): milky way galaxy (3):an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy 2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization 3 : population 4 4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem5 : a great number or quantity <a large enough universe of stocks … to choose from — G. B. Clairmont>

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#85287 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
A cult is nothing more then a religion
Atheism is a religion therefore a cult.
ATHEISM IS A RELIGION as deemed by the courts.
John Calvert, a lawyer and intelligent design proponent declared:
The Seventh Judicial Circuit of the Court of Appeals of the United States held that ATHEISM IS A RELIGION. Therefore, it cannot be promoted by a public school. Currently, public schools are often unwittingly promoting atheism through a dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins.
Hey, that may be good news....I wwonder if the IRS agrees that atheism is a religion. Do you think they will give me tax exempt status
KJV

United States

#85288 Apr 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>In answer to your long post to be technical we have no evidence of any universe before the Big Bang. That may or may not have been the start of the universe, and we may never know. The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree. It is not settled science. Most of the sources you quoted were giving abbreviated answers since they are for very general audiences. For all practical purposes the Big Bang was the start of the universe.

Now in this post you have a false dichotomy. Physicists have known for some time that the concept of "nothing" is impossible in our universe. I am sure that this has been linked before, but I am linking it yet again. It explains how a universe can come from nothing and still follow all of the laws of physics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =0ZiXC8Yh4T0XX
" The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree"

Because it's rather difficult to talk about before the existence of everything I will use words suggesting time when I am totally aware there was no time at that time.

Now for the universe to come into existence while there was nothing proves a creator sense you all agree there is no such thing as magic.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#85289 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
" The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree"
Because it's rather difficult to talk about before the existence of everything I will use words suggesting time when I am totally aware there was no time at that time.
Now for the universe to come into existence while there was nothing proves a creator sense you all agree there is no such thing as magic.
but there wasn't nothing...there was everything.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85290 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
" The BB is the start of the universe as we know it. Many physicists will say that time is meaningless before the BB, others will disagree"
Because it's rather difficult to talk about before the existence of everything I will use words suggesting time when I am totally aware there was no time at that time.
Now for the universe to come into existence while there was nothing proves a creator sense you all agree there is no such thing as magic.
No, once again you are making false claims. Nor did you watch the video that I linked for you. No magic needed, no creator either.

Who created your creator by the way? It is even more complex than the universe so something must have created it by your "logic". Why couldn't the universe exist on its own? You seem to thin your god could exist on his own, I am just cutting out an unneeded step. If you claim a god is needed then that claim demands a creator for your god, etc. and so on. Or in other words, turtles all the way down.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85291 Apr 7, 2013
And KJV, what is the difference between your creator and magic? It can be shown how the universe can come from nothing from understanding the laws of physics.

On a small scale it can be observed in the Casimir effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
KJV

United States

#85292 Apr 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>And why can't a universe start from nothing?
You mean without a creator?

That would be by your definition MAGIC!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85293 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean without a creator?
That would be by your definition MAGIC!
No, one again, that can be explained by the laws of physics.

You keep ignoring the links given to you. Why is that? Is lying your only response?

You are the one who believes in magic, not us.
KJV

United States

#85294 Apr 7, 2013
Karma is a_______ wrote:
<quoted text>Wow talk about taking things out of context. The case you are referring to had to do with a prisoner who said his rights were violated when he was not allowed to form a group to discuss atheism like other prisoners were allowed to do according to their religious beliefs. The court ruled that

"... whether atheism is a 'religion' for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture."

"Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of 'ultimate concern' that for her occupy a 'place parallel to that filled by ... God in traditionally religious persons,' those beliefs represent her religion."

"We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion. See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003)('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"

"The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a 'religion' for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions"
They referred to another Supreme Court decision (Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985)), where the court said:

"At one time it was thought that this right [referring to the right to choose one’s own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."

the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals hasn't declared atheism to be a religion as the layperson might usually define it, they simply acknowledged that atheism hold equal standing with religions with regard to the First Amendment.

as for public schools teaching dogmatic and uncritical teaching of materialistic theories of origins

Sorry Dude, but I hate to tell you this, most chrisitans and other deists believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution. Its only the wacko evangelical fundamentalist crowd that refuses to accept science
"Sorry Dude, but I hate to tell you this, most chrisitans (Christians) and other deists believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution. Its only the wacko evangelical fundamentalist crowd that refuses to accept science"

Science? Funny...... More like Satan.

Was the Big Bang nothing exploding and creating everything?

How old is the universe?

Can matter exist outside the universe?
KJV

United States

#85295 Apr 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, once again you are making false claims. Nor did you watch the video that I linked for you. No magic needed, no creator either.

Who created your creator by the way? It is even more complex than the universe so something must have created it by your "logic". Why couldn't the universe exist on its own? You seem to thin your god could exist on his own, I am just cutting out an unneeded step. If you claim a god is needed then that claim demands a creator for your god, etc. and so on. Or in other words, turtles all the way down.
"Why couldn't the universe exist on its own? "

Did the universe always exist?
Your science claims a age to the universe. The universe is everything. So there had to be nothing before the universe. The laws of our universe does not allow something to come from nothing.

It had to then be created.
KJV

United States

#85296 Apr 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And KJV, what is the difference between your creator and magic? It can be shown how the universe can come from nothing from understanding the laws of physics.

On a small scale it can be observed in the Casimir effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
"And KJV, what is the difference between your creator and magic? It can be shown how the universe can come from nothing from understanding the laws of physics."

In your eyes there would be no difference. However magic could not exist if there was nothing. Nothing is a complete void of everything.
You believe all that ever existed sprang fourth out of nothingness.

I claim it was all created.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85297 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Sorry Dude, but I hate to tell you this, most chrisitans (Christians) and other deists believe in the Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution. Its only the wacko evangelical fundamentalist crowd that refuses to accept science"
Science? Funny...... More like Satan.
Nope, just science. The U.S. is one of the few countries where there is a significant belief in the Genesis myths by Christians exist.
Was the Big Bang nothing exploding and creating everything?
The Big Bang was not an explosion. Only creatards make that claim. And yes, it very well be that the Big Bang occurred from nothing. As long as the total energy of the universe is zero the creation of matter does not violate conservation of energy. And to truly understand that you will have to talk to a physicist.
How old is the universe?
Can matter exist outside the universe?
We only can know how long ago the Big Bang occurred. For all practical purposes that is the start of the universe. It could have existed before then, we may never know.

What does that have to do with evolution anyway? It seems that you are moving the goal posts pretty far back.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85298 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"And KJV, what is the difference between your creator and magic? It can be shown how the universe can come from nothing from understanding the laws of physics."
In your eyes there would be no difference. However magic could not exist if there was nothing. Nothing is a complete void of everything.
You believe all that ever existed sprang fourth out of nothingness.
I claim it was all created.
No, it has been shown that "nothing" is impossible in our universe, or don't you understand that?

You keep claiming "magic", or in other words your invisible friend did it. I claim that everything can be explained by observable repeatable science.

And once again, why are you moving the goal posts so far back? Though I am an atheist I have never claimed evolution disproves god. It only disproves the silly version of god that you believe in.
The existence of a god does not mean that it has to be the god of the Bible. So rather than argue how the universe started lets move the goal posts back where they belong. Onto the Earth. Where the evidence of evolution is so undeniable that as a percentage more historians deny the holocaust than scientists believe in creation.

You are a believer in an unsupported cult.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#85299 Apr 7, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Why couldn't the universe exist on its own? "
Did the universe always exist?
Your science claims a age to the universe. The universe is everything. So there had to be nothing before the universe. The laws of our universe does not allow something to come from nothing.
It had to then be created.
No, once again, we can date when the Big Bang occurred. That is not necessarily the beginning of the universe.

It is only the beginning of the universe as we know it. Is that concept above your ability to understand or not?

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