Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85050 Apr 5, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Plus we already know that Jesus was not well documented, and Charles agreed.

It's all cuz of the Jewish conspiracy apparently.
Still more....

At this time there was a wise man called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. Many people among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive. Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have reported wonders. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day.(18:63)

This is the recent, uninterpolated text that replaces the traditional version which, unfortunately, had suffered early interpolation. For a more detailed evaluation of Josephus and his references to Jesus, please see my separate article on Josephus in this series.

External Evidence: Secular

Cornelius Tacitus, one of the most reliable source historians of first-century Rome, wrote in his Annals a year-by-year account of events in the Roman Empire under the early Caesars. Among the highlights that he reports for the year A.D. 64 was the great fire of Rome. People blamed the emperor Nero for this conflagration since it happened "on his watch," but in order to save himself, Nero switched the blame to "the Christians," which is the first time they appear in secular history. Careful historian that he was, Tacitus then explains who "the Christians" were: "Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus" (15:44). He then goes on to report the horrors that were inflicted on the Christians in what became their first Roman persecution.

Tacitus, it should be emphasized, was not some Christian historian who was trying to prove that Jesus Christ really lived, but a pagan who despised Christians as a "disease," a term he uses later in the passage. Had Jesus never even existed, he would have been the first to expose that pathetic phantom on whom such cultists placed their trust. Were no other references to Jesus available, this passage alone would have been sufficient to establish his historicity. Skeptics realize this, and so have tried every imaginable means to discredit this passage—but to no avail. Manuscript analysis and computer studies have never found any reason to call this sentence into question, nor its context.
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85051 Apr 5, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Plus we already know that Jesus was not well documented, and Charles agreed.

It's all cuz of the Jewish conspiracy apparently.
And still more......

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus also recorded events of the first century in his famous Lives of the Twelve Caesars. He, too, regarded the Christians as a sect "professing a new and mischievous religious belief" (Nero 16) and doubtless cited "Christus" as well, spelling his name "Chrestus" (Claudius 25). That the vowels "e" and "i" were often interchangeable is demonstrated by the French term for "Christian" to this day:chretien.

Pliny the Younger was the Roman governor of Bithynia—today, the northwestern corner of Turkey—and about the year 110 he wrote the emperor Trajan (98-117 A.D.), asking what to do about the Christians, a "wretched cult" whom he mentions eight times in his letter. Christ himself is cited three times, the most famous instance referring to Christians "...who met on a fixed day to chant verses alternately among themselves in honor of Christ, as if to a god..." (Letter No. 96). Trajan's response, interestingly enough, suggests that Christians not be hunted out.(Ibid., No. 97). But again, if Christ were only a mythical character, these hostile sources would have been the first to emblazon that fact in derision.

Other ancient secular sources, such as Theudas and Mara bar Serapion also bear witness to the historicity of Jesus. But any further evidence clearly comes under the "beating a dead horse" category so far as this article is concerned. Nothing more is necessary in view of the overpowering evidence that Jesus of Nazareth was no myth, but a totally historical figure who truly lived. Skeptics should focus instead on whether or not Jesus wasmore than a man. That, at least, could evoke a reasonable debate among reasonable inquirers, rather than a pointless discussion with sensationalists who struggle to reject the obvious.
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85052 Apr 5, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Plus we already know that Jesus was not well documented, and Charles agreed.

It's all cuz of the Jewish conspiracy apparently.
"H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946

When asked which person left the most permanent impression on history, he replied that judging a person’s greatness by historical standards:

“By this test, Jesus stands first.”

“I am a historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”

“Christ is the most unique person of history. No man can write a history of the human race without giving first and foremost place to the penniless teacher of Nazareth.”

Kenneth Scott Latourette, former President of American Historic Society

In A History of Christianity:

“It is evidence of His importance, of the effect that He has had upon history and presumably, of the baffling mystery of His being that no other life ever lived on this planet has evoked so huge a volume of literature among so many people and languages, and that, far from ebbing, the flood continues to mount.”

“As the centuries pass by, the evidence is accumulating that measured by its effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. The influence appears to be mounting.”

“No other life lived on this planet has so widely and deeply affected mankind.”

George Bancroft, great American historian

“I find the name of Jesus Christ written on the top of every page of modern history.”"

http://www.why-jesus.com/history.htm

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#85053 Apr 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a baseless claim on your part.
Whether you like it or not you are an ape. Whether you like it or not you share an ancestor with chimpanzees. There is no reliable evidence that supports your claims. We have more than enough evidence.
Why do you think that your side keeps losing court cases. Legal cases are based upon evidence too. If you don't have any evidence you lose.

There is another possibility, MM isn't human. Probably some species of avian brained creature.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#85055 Apr 5, 2013
Tinka wrote:
How old compared to how much more time there is on it for the great GREAT REAL MAN to put forth effort to sustain it?
I think we are that close to the end as we know it...Some do I suppose but never did many speak out clear loud kept it all in their closets as told.
It'll blow is what, it would be the most humain way to end the plague of the sickest animal there ever was residing/roaming on the Earth. Earth's man killing each other off like sick animals not enough but they prai on innocent like it's dinner to them humankind it means nothing to spirit they get worse...
They are sick disturbed vile creatures and all that they have already taken in under their care having to live just to survive is it?
To go along follow quietly when are we showing what they do other than through WAR the platform of distructive behaviors to each land it would make the most sense to protect it from within and not to sent out, for lands really are not being taking over anylonger Land is purchased...
So to molest use and abuse when will they show man in their real state frame of mind?
Random word generator??

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#85056 Apr 5, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
There is another possibility, MM isn't human. Probably some species of avian brained creature.
COme on... that's not fair to the birds!

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#85057 Apr 5, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>COme on... that's not fair to the birds!
Well? If if quacks it's a duck right? lol
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85058 Apr 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, i would argue the first is not a questionable claim.

christian digma claims god is infallible. yet it has been proven he is not in the bible itself. hence, the god of the christian cult is not the one described in the bible. that god does not exist.
Can't argue with that. Mainly because it makes no sense.

"Use of Drop-In Group Medical Appointments (DIGMAs) at our San Jose Medical Center has substantially leveraged physician time; improved accessibility at both the individual physician and the departmental levels; increased quality of care by better addressing patients' mind-body needs and improving follow-up care; achieved high levels of patient and physician professional satisfaction; and reduced cost to the organization by leveraging existing staffing resources. This article discusses the DIGMA model and suggests how it can be usefully implemented at other health care facilities."

M&M

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#85059 Apr 5, 2013
Tinka wrote:
How old compared to how much more time there is on it for the great GREAT REAL MAN to put forth effort to sustain it?
I think we are that close to the end as we know it...Some do I suppose but never did many speak out clear loud kept it all in their closets as told.
It'll blow is what, it would be the most humain way to end the plague of the sickest animal there ever was residing/roaming on the Earth. Earth's man killing each other off like sick animals not enough but they prai on innocent like it's dinner to them humankind it means nothing to spirit they get worse...
They are sick disturbed vile creatures and all that they have already taken in under their care having to live just to survive is it?
To go along follow quietly when are we showing what they do other than through WAR the platform of distructive behaviors to each land it would make the most sense to protect it from within and not to sent out, for lands really are not being taking over anylonger Land is purchased...
So to molest use and abuse when will they show man in their real state frame of mind?
Tires rolling down the road, and stop signs , signs of the times.
The times still ticking , and those ticks they get on the dogs.
Fleas them fleas biting . The fish bite sometimes if the sun is setting. Does the sun really sit or is it set? Gemstone settings
look better in gold , golden retrievers, chasing tires.

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#85060 Apr 5, 2013
Game yet nothing but hunted a different species of it all...

It mainly resides in the woodlands...

People in caves people in cities people on the outskirts there are those that hunt and then there are the hunted...

And that is life on Earth inbetween there still are those that never had a clue and just went along for the ride...
So seekers doers much maybe could have been that forgiven but how long are they stringing shit on?

Maybe it will be left to them those that just existed worked hard and never thought of harming anyone the un-tortured and they can manage and keep it up but there will be an end to all suffering coming soon one can only not to just assume wish and to speak of references to what man is capable of even through the demise of another to demolish soul spirit of youth child women anything goesno remorse but for self preservation ... Real men in the end they will devour themselves for that if not for families that will be all that there will be left ...

Mormons are great for tearing them up Religion has surely proven what they are about money greed and power is what...

They are sick and perverted to an outside must not be understood but facts are that facts...
And in that truth who will join them for an existance and who is going to battle?
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85061 Apr 5, 2013
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>It was through a few years of bible study that I figured out that religion is nothing more than a way to control minds and wallets.
So you flunked out of that too. Again an atheist that would not be a good candidate for the atomic micro scope scan looking for an atheist brain.

M&M

M&M
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85062 Apr 5, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>Are you sure?

;-)
absolutely

M&M
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85063 Apr 5, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Pay attention.

There are absolutely NO contemporary accounts of your Nazarene.

None.

Zip.

Nada.

Zilch.

The alleged tales of Josephus and Tacitus are proven forgeries, written centuries later.

QUIT QUOTING THEM!! THEY DON'T FRIGGING COUNT!!!
You need to take a pill dude.

"There are absolutely NO contemporary accounts of your Nazarene."

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

For centuries, believers, scoffers and the curious have wondered at the Biblical account of the Star of Bethlehem. The Bible recounts unusual or even impossible astronomical events at Christ’s birth. For many doubters, the account of the Star is easily dismissed as myth. For many believers, it’s a mystery accepted on faith. But what happens if we combine current scriptural accounts, astronomical fact and a desire for truth? The Star of Bethlehem documents the search to understand how the Lord used the stars and planets to reveal His plans for Christ’s birth. Uncover the mystery for yourself.

From Producer Stephen McEveety, The Passion Of The Christ

http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/produc...
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85064 Apr 5, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Pay attention.

There are absolutely NO contemporary accounts of your Nazarene.

None.

Zip.

Nada.

Zilch.

The alleged tales of Josephus and Tacitus are proven forgeries, written centuries later.

QUIT QUOTING THEM!! THEY DON'T FRIGGING COUNT!!!
"H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946

When asked which person left the most permanent impression on history, he replied that judging a person’s greatness by historical standards:

“By this test, Jesus stands first.”

“I am a historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”

“Christ is the most unique person of history. No man can write a history of the human race without giving first and foremost place to the penniless teacher of Nazareth.”

Kenneth Scott Latourette, former President of American Historic Society

In A History of Christianity:

“It is evidence of His importance, of the effect that He has had upon history and presumably, of the baffling mystery of His being that no other life ever lived on this planet has evoked so huge a volume of literature among so many people and languages, and that, far from ebbing, the flood continues to mount.”

“As the centuries pass by, the evidence is accumulating that measured by its effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. The influence appears to be mounting.”

“No other life lived on this planet has so widely and deeply affected mankind.”

George Bancroft, great American historian

“I find the name of Jesus Christ written on the top of every page of modern history.”"

http://www.why-jesus.com/history.htm

M&M
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85065 Apr 5, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Pay attention.

There are absolutely NO contemporary accounts of your Nazarene.

None.

Zip.

Nada.

Zilch.

The alleged tales of Josephus and Tacitus are proven forgeries, written centuries later.

QUIT QUOTING THEM!! THEY DON'T FRIGGING COUNT!!!
Did Jesus Really Exist?
By Paul L. Maier, The Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University

"No, he didn't!" some skeptics claim, thinking that this is a quick, powerful lever with which to pry people away from "the fable of Christianity." But the lever crumbles at its very first use. In fact, there is more evidence that Jesus of Nazareth certainly lived than for most famous figures of the ancient past. This evidence is of two kinds: internal and external, or, if you will, sacred and secular. In both cases, the total evidence is so overpowering, so absolute that only the shallowest of intellects would dare to deny Jesus' existence. And yet this pathetic denial is still parroted by "the village atheist," bloggers on the internet, or such organizations as the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

Read much more By Paul L. Maier, The Russell H. Seibert Professor of Ancient History, Western Michigan University
Mary Magdalena

United States

#85066 Apr 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what archeological finds support the myth of the abrahamic god?
You don't know? What do you know?
You miss on every shot you take.
Another great candidate for the Atomic Micro Scope brain scan.

M&M
buckwheat

Tulsa, OK

#85067 Apr 5, 2013
Mary Magdalena wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jesus Really Exist?
"No, he didn't!"
Tout Court!

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#85068 Apr 5, 2013
They roamed the ground far before there ever was Television Tribal measures were that for the hunt of 4 legged animals not that which walked on two...

It was that for life measures to hunt for starvation not to, to this day?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85069 Apr 5, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
First the dude your foundation to understanding (your logical view on life) as an agnostic must change because it states GOD cannot be proved or disproved and GOD is an absolute truth found by only accepting absolute truths. This is an enduring process you must choose on your own.
Concluding that one absolute truth (GOD) cannot be found as an agnostic will have an effect on your thinking because now you will reject all absolutes and this is what GOD is.
Since you cannot scientifically conclude using the law of non-contradiction (absolute truth) because your agnostic view of GOD cannot be proven or disproven is a contradictory statement and violates the-law of non-contradiction. YOU CAN CHOOSE OPPOSING ANSWERS AND CALL IT THE TRUTH!
Remember my friend, when you conclude on an answer about reality (absolute truth) you must choose either or.
Your scientific conclusion using the logic of the law of non-contradiction(absolute truth) ONLY allows you to conclude:
A. GOD IS PROVABLE
B. OR NOT PROVABLE
It cannot be both answers (agnostic view) so choose wisely my friend because you have to make the choice on you own, I only opened the gateway for you to discovering absolute truths which lead to knowing who GOD is.
Ah, I see your problem. Agnostic view is B - that a God is not provable. Agnostic is NOT A, never has, and never will be. And agnostic is what science is.

The answer is simple - you don't understand science. You don't understand logic. And you claim to be God by claiming knowledge of "absolute truth". Which in itself violates your own rule of non-contradiction because you know jackshit.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#85070 Apr 5, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong!
Archaeology has the answer.
From archaeological findings among world's religion, Judaism and Christianity stands out.
Others have/ has/ had little or no archaeological backings to back up their projections( stories).
Sorry, but ancient Egypt has always had you beat. By millenia.

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