Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221446 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84261 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Evolutionists would say they are a means of HGT - horizontal gene transfer, that which increase genetic diversity. Or that they evolved from plasmids or bacteria.
You don't understand the theory entirely that is why you can't identify its flaws.
that would certainly be one of the effects of their existence. tht would in no way be a flaw in the theory of evolution. in fact, it would seem to back it up.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84262 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you show paternity test from you dada using ERV's pls. lol
Iíll do even better and prove it by birth right here on planet earth and validate it with empirical evidence. Since I am going to prove I am an Extra Terrestrial as an absolute truth this excludes all those who donít accept absolute truths from being able to accept or under-stand I am an E.T. If you accept absolute truths then we are both E.T.ís :-)

The scientific algorithm is as follows and is validated on a universal level to prove I am an E.T.:

+ 1 in math means EXTRA and this is a universal absolute truth because I (Infinite Force) became + 1 (EXRTRA ENTITY BORN ON PLANET EARTH) when I was born from my human mother on earth.

TERRESTRIAL I (Infinite Force) is because I am an inhabitant on planet earth that lives on land!

Conclusion, Extra Terrestrial I am and my kind only accept absolute truths that govern and applies to all in this universe.
Are you and Katy Perry one of my kind?!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84263 Apr 1, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>that would certainly be one of the effects of their existence. tht would in no way be a flaw in the theory of evolution. in fact, it would seem to back it up.
LOL! You are clueless. Do you know what HGT means? How do humans transfer genes without reproduction through a virus? You need to explain that new method I don't know about.

OMG. You really need to educate yourself more.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84264 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! You are clueless. Do you know what HGT means? How do humans transfer genes without reproduction through a virus? You need to explain that new method I don't know about.
OMG. You really need to educate yourself more.
i thought it was pretty much established that some of our DNA is captured viruses...

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84265 Apr 1, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Iíll do even better and prove it by birth right here on planet earth and validate it with empirical evidence. Since I am going to prove I am an Extra Terrestrial as an absolute truth this excludes all those who donít accept absolute truths from being able to accept or under-stand I am an E.T. If you accept absolute truths then we are both E.T.ís :-)
The scientific algorithm is as follows and is validated on a universal level to prove I am an E.T.:
+ 1 in math means EXTRA and this is a universal absolute truth because I (Infinite Force) became + 1 (EXRTRA ENTITY BORN ON PLANET EARTH) when I was born from my human mother on earth.
TERRESTRIAL I (Infinite Force) is because I am an inhabitant on planet earth that lives on land!
Conclusion, Extra Terrestrial I am and my kind only accept absolute truths that govern and applies to all in this universe.
Are you and Katy Perry one of my kind?!
Hmm maybe I'm an E.T. Extra-Talented that is. lol

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84267 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
A genetic disorder or disease that is heritable are caused by abnormalities in the genome that can be passed on to offspring. If not, by mutation. Not by genome alteration caused by a virus.
HIV is not transmitted genetically but through direct transmission during childbirth.
You still do not understand retroviruses.

Your body has about 100 trillion cells in it. Even with the worst of retrovirus infections only a very small fraction of a percent of your cells are infected by the virus.

We know that ERV's come from retroviruses because of several facts.

They were first identified as viruses by virologists.

They have been observed being formed.

They have been analyzed.

They have even been revived.

There is no doubt in the scientific world of where ERV's came from or what they are.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84268 Apr 1, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I'm sure you are from somewhere else , in fact I think you are from out of your mind.
You asked and I proved I am an (Extra Terrestrial) as a universal absolute truth . Now that you know what are you going to do now. Look like the joke back-fired in your face. CHUCKLING!

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84270 Apr 1, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
You asked and I proved I am an (Extra Terrestrial) as a universal absolute truth . Now that you know what are you going to do now. Look like the joke back-fired in your face. CHUCKLING!
Actually all you have done is remove all doubt, that you are
a 100% certified lunatic.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84271 Apr 1, 2013
You know what I find unteresting is that the term life is not univeraly accepted in biology,I wonder why.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84272 Apr 1, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually all you have done is remove all doubt, that you are
a 100% certified lunatic.
not sure why you folks are even responding to his posts....isn't there an age old rule about that on the interweb?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84273 Apr 1, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You still do not understand retroviruses.
Which part I did not understand?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Your body has about 100 trillion cells in it. Even with the worst of retrovirus infections only a very small fraction of a percent of your cells are infected by the virus.
What is your point?
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
We know that ERV's come from retroviruses because of several facts.
They were first identified as viruses by virologists.
They have been observed being formed.
They have been analyzed.
They have even been revived.
There is no doubt in the scientific world of where ERV's came from or what they are.
And so the scientists who said HIV is not transmitted genetically are wrong? Can you name other viruses that can be heritable other than the herpesvirus? How many chimps and humans are infected with herpesvirus if that seems to be the irrefutable evidence for ERV's?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84274 Apr 1, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>not sure why you folks are even responding to his posts....isn't there an age old rule about that on the interweb?

Yes you're right I shouldn't toy with brazen bulls.
I thought there was something in it , but it seems to have gone now.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84275 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Which part I did not understand?
<quoted text>
What is your point?
<quoted text>
And so the scientists who said HIV is not transmitted genetically are wrong? Can you name other viruses that can be heritable other than the herpesvirus? How many chimps and humans are infected with herpesvirus if that seems to be the irrefutable evidence for ERV's?
God you are stupid!

Once again, you have trillions of cells in your body. Only a small fraction of a percent will be infected by a retrovirus at its worst. Think about that.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84276 Apr 1, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually all you have done is remove all doubt, that you are
a 100% certified lunatic.
You know nothing of me and my depth of understanding and you see I speak in absolutes. Why hurl insults because what I say is absolute truth? Truth seekers donít conflict and insult each other. Why do you want to know the truth and or claim to be a scientific minded person? What do you seek to know about life? I hope you donít get off belittling people because you call yourself a person of scientific knowing.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84277 Apr 1, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>not sure why you folks are even responding to his posts....isn't there an age old rule about that on the interweb?
Yeah, I did expose your theory of evolution as a peudo science when it comes to the origin of species. I wouldn't want to talk to me either because I exposed your pseudo-science.

This is what I do when people claim my title (truth seeker and teacher of self-evident truths about the meaning of life).

I WILL CONTINUE TO DESTROY YOUR FLAWED CONCEPTS because you can't be taught on how to be a truth seeker. It's an innate quality!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84278 Apr 1, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
God you are stupid!
Once again, you have trillions of cells in your body. Only a small fraction of a percent will be infected by a retrovirus at its worst. Think about that.
You are the idiot if you can't answer my questions.

Does it matter what percentage of cells will be infected? The question I have is on the infected cells. You can't even name one virus.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84279 Apr 1, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the idiot if you can't answer my questions.
Does it matter what percentage of cells will be infected?
Yes.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#84280 Apr 1, 2013
If you get a virus in one of your cells, it copies its DNA into your DNA in order to make more copies of itself.

If that happens in a blood cell, then that one cell has the DNA insert.

If EVERY cell in your body has the DNA insert, it's part of your DNA.

That ONLY happens when a virus gets into a sperm or egg which goes on to produce a living being.

From then on, anyone born to that lineage will also have the same retroviral insert in their DNA.

So, if this happened to your grandfather's sperm, it caused you dad to have it. Your dad passes it on to you, you pass it on to your children.

That's a retroviral insert.

Any given virus COULD be an insert and COULD insert into any part of the gene sequence.

So, for you and I to have the same insert in the same place on our DNA, there are only two possibilities.
A) Someone a long way back had the virus and we both descend from that person.
B) The EXACT same virus infected two different people, and randomly inserted itself into the EXACT same spot on the INCREDIBLY LONG DNA sequence (3 BILLION pairs = 3 BILLION possible places to insert itself), and then that cell HAPPENED to be a sperm and HAPPENED to result in a kid.

The odds against B are very long, but not impossible.

However, you and I don't just have ONE retrovirus in common, we have many (let's say 30 for the sake of the discussion).

So, either you and I descend from one individual who had the 30 virus inserts -or- B happened 30x in a row without ever having a single mistaken location or additional virus.

Odds against that? Too long to have ever occurred in the entire history of the universe.

So, the fact that ALL humans have the same retroviral DNA inserts means that ALL humans share a common ancestor who had those same inserts.

Get it? Good.

Now, understand this. Of the 30 retroviral inserts we all share, chimps ALSO have 15 of them.

That means that at some point, a long time ago, when there were only 15 retroviral inserts, an individual existed who was both the forefather of all humans and the forefather of all chimps.

That's common descent.

if two people have the same retroviral insert in the same place in their DNA, they likely share a common ancestor.

And we've concluded that if two people have more than one of the same retroviral insert in the same place in their DNA, the odds against them not sharing a common ancestor go up exponentially with each additional insert.

Onto the next point:
Looking at insertion points for one retrovirus (HERV-K) here's what we find:

# of retroviral insertion points in common between humans and...
New World Monkeys: 2
Old World Monkeys: 4
Gibbons: 7
Orangutans: 9
Gorillas & Chimps: 11
Other Humans: 14

So what does that tell us?
It tells us that we share a common ancestor with all of these.

It tells us the order in which the various groups split off.

The least # of viruses in common split first. The most # split last.

The odds against humans and chimps both aquiring 11 common inserts? 1:1 followed by 132 zeros.

That is why DNA researchers consider ERVs to be slam-the-door positive evidence for evolution.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84281 Apr 1, 2013
Here. let me make it easier for you. From the Wiki article on ERV's:

"The replication cycle of a retrovirus entails the insertion ('integration') of a DNA copy of the viral genome into the nuclear genome of the host cell. Most retroviruses infect somatic cells, but occasional infection of germline cells (cells that produce eggs and sperm) can also occur. Rarely, retroviral integration may occur in a germline cell that goes on to develop into a viable organism. This organism will carry the inserted retroviral genome as an integral part of its own genome - an 'endogenous' retrovirus (ERV) that may be inherited by its offspring as a novel allele. Many ERVs have persisted in the genome of their hosts for millions of years. However, most of these have acquired inactivating mutations during host DNA replication, and are no longer capable of producing virus. ERVs can also be partially excised from the genome by a process known as recombinational deletion, in which recombination between the identical sequences that flank newly integrated retroviruses results in deletion of the internal, protein-coding regions of the viral genome."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retro...

The formation of an ERV into germline cells is a very rare event. It is much rarer than a once in a generation event for a whole population.

The point is that ERV's are well observed. You asked about them, I gave you the information. Now you are trying to move the goal posts.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84282 Apr 1, 2013
Eristotle wrote:
<quoted text>
One fact is true..."That, historically speaking, most scientists have been proved wrong".
More precisely, most scientists haven't gotten it exactly right because they lacked all of the facts.
Science by consensus is bad science.
Most people once believed the Earth was flat,and that the sun, the moon and the stars revovled around the Earth.
Nobody believed in Ice Ages until a geologist studying "erratics" (rocks found far from their origin) speculated they had been moved there by glaciers, then proved it.
Continental Drift theory was lauhged at until proven correct (now called Plate Techtonics).
Gene Shoemaker had to prove comets and asteroids really did impact Earth.
Yes, the scientific method does work...eventually.
Your scientific method will never work and all it is doing is deteriorating the quality of science because your falsifiable method of reasoning challenges scientific laws and these are absolutes. Science is becoming more and more corrupt because you now have theories challenging scientific laws. THIS IS INSANE!
The scientific method with the falsifiability with-in it will not work eventually because it violates the meaning of how nature behaves and that is non-contradictory.

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