Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#84046
Mar 31, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe they watched the film "Ice Station Zebra" too many times...remember when they tried to blast throught the ide with a torpedo and all the falling ice almost destroyed the sub? even at ten yrs old i cried foul!
poor Allistair McClean must have just cried...
I know it is a classic, but I have never seen that particular movie. I do remember it was supposed to involve a submarine in either the Arctic or Antarctic. Are you saying there was an explosion and the ice "fell" through the water?
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#84047
Mar 31, 2013
 
Today we as Christians celebrate the power of our Creator and his word of life which caused Jesus to raise from the dead and return to life. We have hope and faith in his promise that we will be resurrected and restored to a better consciousness and to eternal life after the judgement.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84049
Mar 31, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Nearly correct?! Am I correct or am I not! I can’t be both at the same time. Remember the law of non-contradictory states I am either are or. Don’t conclude if you are not certain (absolutely sure)!
<quoted text>
Then you are claiming un-certainty (the law of non-contradiction does not apply until you claim certainty).
Me personally I conclude with scientific laws which or absolutes (I will prove absolutes exists in the laws of nature in the next quote).
<quoted text>
The laws of gravity remain a universal constant unless the law of gravity (stopped) governing the planet of mercury 1/1000th of a degree and then started back governing the planet. This violates the law of non-contradiction which is an absolute
Absolutes exist in the laws of nature by the recording of history. Adolph Hitler war that happened will never un-happen and this is why history with Hitler will never, ever change which makes it a constant universal law in nature!
Science does not deal in absolutes or say any law is absolute.
There exist errors in them, that when identified null your absolute
hypothesis. Newtons errors were in assuming mass was a constant
and that gravity is a force. Einstein defined it better showing mass was not constant in relativity and saying gravity is an effect. But the jury is still out on it's true determination. So you see while laws may be 99.9 % correct there exist contradictions.

These contradictions show you there is no absolute law. So while laws may be pretty much constant and stand as law, they can contain flaws , these do not require the law of gravity to be (stopped) to show error and be flawed.
When a better explanation is made the law is superseded by the theory explaining it.

One example is Newtons second law , which requires mass be a constant. Under this premise acceleration is unlimited , more force will create higher velocity into infinity and mass can accelerate beyond the speed of light. This is where the second law breaks down. But is explained in the special theory of relativity.
This explanation supersedes the second law, and sets the limit for acceleration for mass and mass/less energy.

So your constants are not absolute and absolute law does not exist.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84050
Mar 31, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
Absolute law is a code for human conduct that is derived from the morals that are believed to be universal to all human beings. It is also sometimes known as natural law, referencing the idea that it reflects the laws of nature rather than the laws developed by humans. Many nations incorporate absolute law into their legal systems in addition to positive law, which are the laws created by society in order to make it function more smoothly.
The concept of absolute law is very old. Many societies have had philosophers who argued that humans are bound by universal moral codes of conduct. These moral codes are believed to be innate and unchanging because the principles of morality do not alter even as society itself undergoes shifts. Murder is a classic example of an action that is believed to go against human nature and it is notable that many societies historically and in the modern era have criminalized and heavily penalized murder.
Proponents of the concept of absolute law argue that, unlike positive law, it is not developed by legal authorities in response to social needs. Absolute law is instead natural to a society and it is possible to arrive at it by following a logical series of steps. People can understand absolute law without having a grasp of positive law because they should have an innate moral sense that governs basic behaviors.
>>>> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-absolute-law....
Remember I told you science has an answer for a universal moral law that is scientific. When I say I discovered a scientific moral law it means it stand to reason or is the same as a scientific law.
ANYBODY who claims science do not deals in absolutes does not know the true (ABSOLUTE) meaning of science. The truth is what gave birth to the scientific method.
Your marriage of the philosophical to the scientific is in error. Science does not deal in absolutes, because that leaves no room for error or flaws to exist.

There can be philosophically and universally accepted laws to govern people , but these are not scientific laws and cannot be considered "scientific moral laws" they could be accurately described as "philosophical moral laws" or "universal moral laws".

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84051
Mar 31, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
Absolute law is a code for human conduct that is derived from the morals that are believed to be universal to all human beings. It is also sometimes known as natural law, referencing the idea that it reflects the laws of nature rather than the laws developed by humans. Many nations incorporate absolute law into their legal systems in addition to positive law, which are the laws created by society in order to make it function more smoothly.
The concept of absolute law is very old. Many societies have had philosophers who argued that humans are bound by universal moral codes of conduct. These moral codes are believed to be innate and unchanging because the principles of morality do not alter even as society itself undergoes shifts. Murder is a classic example of an action that is believed to go against human nature and it is notable that many societies historically and in the modern era have criminalized and heavily penalized murder.
Proponents of the concept of absolute law argue that, unlike positive law, it is not developed by legal authorities in response to social needs. Absolute law is instead natural to a society and it is possible to arrive at it by following a logical series of steps. People can understand absolute law without having a grasp of positive law because they should have an innate moral sense that governs basic behaviors.
>>>> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-absolute-law....
Remember I told you science has an answer for a universal moral law that is scientific. When I say I discovered a scientific moral law it means it stand to reason or is the same as a scientific law.
ANYBODY who claims science do not deals in absolutes does not know the true (ABSOLUTE) meaning of science. The truth is what gave birth to the scientific method.
The perfect example of this exists, but is in no way scientific ,
but it is universally and philosophically accepted as a standard.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84052
Mar 31, 2013
 
Scientific Method Applied to Ethics
>>>> http://www.ethicsdefined.org/paths-forward/sc...

In science all scientific method can conclude ABSOLUTES when the universal constant principle is applied to empirical evidence. The “Law of non-contradiction” is the founding principles when discovering a scientific moral law.

I now present to you the universal constant moral scientific law that equally applies to men and women on planet earth. This law is universal which means all governments of the world should up-hold to ensure all men and women are protected on planet earth. This universal constant moral scientific law is founded in the principles of the law of non-contradiction.

The founding fathers of the United States of America saw and explained this self-evident truth backed with empirical evidence when it comes to creating a law that governed human behavior on a universal level. I now verify the statement with modification.“All men and women are created equal” which originated as “All men are created equal”!

This is a self- evident truth verified with empirical evidence that is not made up by man but discovered by man.

The universal scientific moral law that should govern both man and woman equally by all governments in the world is the innate quality found in the laws of nature called “The ability to choose” without coercive or physical force by no other man, woman or world government. I hold this scientific moral law to be self-evident (un-deniable) because every man and woman on planet earth is born innately with this natural quality governed by the laws of nature. No civil law should conflict with his natural law that governs all if such a civil law exists it is deemed as corrupted.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84053
Mar 31, 2013
 
This scientific moral law is what we know as FREEDOM (ability to choose).

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#84054
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I serve Jesus Christ and I know he is true. I do not know every true answer, but he does. Read the New Testament and you will find that Jesus has sent his spirit into the world to reveal all truth to us, if we believe in him.
but you only "know" that through a book of proven lies...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#84055
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Today we as Christians celebrate the power of our Creator and his word of life which caused Jesus to raise from the dead and return to life. We have hope and faith in his promise that we will be resurrected and restored to a better consciousness and to eternal life after the judgement.
another re-hashed myth from previous religious cults...
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#84056
Mar 31, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>another re-hashed myth from previous religious cults...
If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#84057
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.
i reject what has been shown to not be the truth.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84058
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.

But you reject the truth, and that was your choice.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#84059
Mar 31, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
But you reject the truth, and that was your choice.
I can not tell you how to believe, but I know what I know to be so.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#84060
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I can not tell you how to believe, but I know what I know to be so.
No. you believe what you believ is true. it has been proven to be not true, yet you still believe. that is denial of reality...

that is not a healthy world view.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#84061
Mar 31, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>No. you believe what you believ is true. it has been proven to be not true, yet you still believe. that is denial of reality...
that is not a healthy world view.
You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#84062
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
This is funny coming form you.

We have demonstrated many times on this thread and others, including just yesterday with "Mark," how fundamentalist Christians like you will say any silly thing in their attempts to make a "scientific" case for a young earth and instant special creation of species 6000 years ago.

Your pastors and Bible teachers are actually the ones who will "say anything" in defense of their indefensible position.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84063
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
You are right, except you have the roles reversed.
This is the root of "choice" And why I told you you "chose" to deny the truth.

Evolution is a truth you chose to deny.
It has nothing to do with god, but in your belief it does.
Hence the denial.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#84064
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
No, i embrace reality fully. the bible is a lie. it is proven. it was not written under any divine inspiration...proven fact.

rational people do not believe everything that is proposed as evolution or evidence for evolution; it is all analyzed and verified and open for debate.

sorry, you are just wrong. it is you that is denying proven reality...but that is what cults and cult members do.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

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#84065
Mar 31, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.
Yes, all of us outside of your bronze age fairy tale cult are well aware. They include willful ignorance, delusion, holier-than-thou-arrogance, childlike belief in fairy tales, rejection of science and history, rejection of reality, hatred of anything that doesn't conform to your silly "literal and inerrant holy book" cult, etc..

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84066
Mar 31, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Your marriage of the philosophical to the scientific is in error. Science does not deal in absolutes, because that leaves no room for error or flaws to exist.
There can be philosophically and universally accepted laws to govern people , but these are not scientific laws and cannot be considered "scientific moral laws" they could be accurately described as "philosophical moral laws" or "universal moral laws".
When the scientific law was discovered in physics “The law of non-contradiction” was validated in philosophy and backed with empirical evidence. The scientific law discovered in physics principles states a universal law is constant (un-changing/absolute) that governs all in the universe.
“Gravity is described from the point of view of a universal law. This implies that gravity is a force that should behave in similar ways regardless of where you are in the universe”
“G is the universal gravitational constant. It is basically a conversion factor to adjust the number and units so they come out to the correct value. This is a universal constant so it is true everywhere”.

>>>> http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/ph...

My point is a scientific law such as the “law of gravity” is constant (non-contradictory) and will always govern all. Gravity do not govern us one day and govern not govern us a different day. This would be a contradiction and would violate “the law of non-contradiction” which is founded not only in the scientific law of gravity but all scientific laws regardless of which branch of science you use.

Trying to disprove an absolute (scientific law) found in validated in nature is foolish/illogical.

Last example, using the scientific method found in history also validates absolutes exist in nature because you cannot un-do history. It is constant (never changes) or absolute because what I did yesterday is an absolute event that can be never changed.
To claim a scientific law is not an absolute is a foolish/illogical argument.

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