Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#84000
Mar 30, 2013
 
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I know poly. Haven't seen him in some time though.
Thanks for your thoughts.
All is hypothesis still.
Isn't Hawking working on a new paper about it?
You'd have to ask him.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84001
Mar 30, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU ARE INFINITLY WRONG!!!! I know one universal self-evident truth when it comes to human morality and itís not based on emotions or religious text books because I am not religious.
How do you decide morality using your scientific method or theory of evolution?
Iím not letting this one go so easy because this universal moral law I discovered is personal.
Please explain to me how your method of reasoning determines this one.
There is no such thing. Morality is decided by the consensus of the people within regions, and within indigenous populations.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#84002
Mar 30, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU ARE INFINITLY WRONG!!!! I know one universal self-evident truth when it comes to human morality and itís not based on emotions or religious text books because I am not religious.
How do you decide morality using your scientific method or theory of evolution?
How do you decide morality using banana beef sandwiches?

How do we hammer a nail into an ocean?

You are confused as to how tools work.
Infinite Force wrote:
Iím not letting this one go so easy because this universal moral law I discovered is personal.
You won't let it go easily because you're daft. But there is no universal moral law.
Infinite Force wrote:
Please explain to me how your method of reasoning determines this one.
By the simple fact you are unable to demonstrate your claims.(shrug)

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84003
Mar 30, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> There is no such thing. Morality is decided by the consensus of the people within regions, and within indigenous populations.
YOU ARE ETERNALLY WRONG! YOU HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

If your scientific method or theory of evolution can't figure out this one that follows the scientific method and backed with empirical data and deemed as a scientific moral law then you need to abandon your theory of evolution. Without order any rational technological civilization will collapse or destroy itself. THIS APPLIES TO ALL RATIONAL CIVILAZATIONS IN THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERESE. THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT LAW STANDS!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#84004
Mar 30, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Especially if we take into consideration research published by Miller himself which shows he was not a YEC:
http://www.crevassezone.org/reports/JIRP/03-C...
... but then I suppose the mean old evolutionists forced him to go with an old Earth paradigm at gunpoint.
Yes, I don't believe any of Mark's stories. It is very easy to look up the name of real scientists on the internet and to claim that you know them. When someone claims that that scientist wrote an article totally outside of his character and then to hear Mark has it in his garage is what makes the story laughable.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#84005
Mar 30, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU ARE ETERNALLY WRONG! YOU HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
If your scientific method or theory of evolution can't figure out this one that follows the scientific method and backed with empirical data and deemed as a scientific moral law then you need to abandon your theory of evolution. Without order any rational technological civilization will collapse or destroy itself. THIS APPLIES TO ALL RATIONAL CIVILAZATIONS IN THIS PHYSICAL UNIVERESE. THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT LAW STANDS!


Why do you keep making idiotic unsupported claims?

By the way, there is no "universal constant law". Now you are just making crap up.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84006
Mar 30, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you decide morality using banana beef sandwiches?
Giving everybody one! NO EXCEPTIONS!
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
How do we hammer a nail into an ocean?
You are confused as to how tools work.
Donít worry, my method of reasoning got it and it follows the scientific method without using controlled experiments in the lab. Donít worry itís backed with empirical data as well.
This self-evident truth is un-deniable as well!
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
You won't let it go easily because you're daft. But there is no universal moral law.
WRONG AGAIN! Now explain to me why canít theory of evolution answer this?
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
By the simple fact you are unable to demonstrate your claims.(shrug)
My discovery is a scientific moral law! I just want to know how you concluded this donít exist by your scientific method? The answer is super simplistic to understand.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84007
Mar 30, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep making idiotic unsupported claims?
By the way, there is no "universal constant law". Now you are just making crap up.
"Fundamentally, all scientific laws follow from physics, laws which occur in other sciences ultimately follow from physical laws. Often, from mathematically fundamental viewpoints, universal constants emerge from scientific laws."

>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science

You need to stop denying that a universal constant law exists. Please read the above quote and source.
Mark

United States

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#84008
Mar 30, 2013
 

Judged:

1

The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey bub, maybe God IS all about truth. YOU on the other hand are not. And don't give me this crapp about what your personal friends would do to me, I did not bring them into this. I don't even know who Bill or his wife are in order to personally insult them. If you continue to make more appeals to emotion that's your problem for getting emotionally involved on the internet. That's why I don't care if fundies call me all the names under the sun. All I've done is expose some of your flawed thinking and scientific inaccuracies, and pointed out when you are lying. I can't falsify your personal anecdotes. You may well be a coal miner and known a guy called Bill. But when you start lying about science bear in mind that people here WILL correct you whether you like it or not. It's your choice whether you want to continue lying or not. It makes no difference to us as fundies around these forums are a dime a dozen.
So, you are saying that you hold the scepter of all truth and judgment over character. Calling people liars from your position is amazing. My point is you are passing judgment on people and things from a position of what truth, your non or part knowledge.
drink The hive

New York, NY

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#84009
Mar 30, 2013
 
"I Traveled A Long Way Seeking God - But When I Finally Gave Up And Turned Back -There He Was - Within Me! O Lalli Now Why Do U Wander Like A Beggar?- Make Some Effort - And He Will Grant U A Vision Of Himself In The Form Of Bliss In Your Heart." - The Saint Of The Kashmir Shaivism Tradition...

https://www.youtube.com/watch...
Mark

United States

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#84010
Mar 30, 2013
 
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
1.) you would seriously post a calculation without even CONSIDERING famines; plagues, the effects of wars, etc. on population? LOL!
2.) You would seriously wonder "where all the bones are"? Don't you know that bones decompose rapidly on or under the surface of the earth? Do you think bones are ETERNAL or something?
<quoted text>
Let me guess: Dr. Miller was a "Bible-believing Christian"?
We have ice cores MANY TIMES older than that.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html
Up to 800,000 years for some cores!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core

I believe Dr. Miller was America's most experienced Glaciologist, as far as time on the ice as a professional. He studied mostly on teh Juneau ice feild but spent time around the earth also. I was not priming him for the answer, he offered it without hesitation. Asked him about Greenland cores and CO etc. and he said in his opinion, it's all to homogenized to really be sure that deep. An interesting indicator is the depth of a flight of WW2 aircraft that were forced down on the shelf. We never talked faith.

On the number of human remains vs population statistics, with the power of the web, it should not be hard to check how that plays out.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#84011
Mar 30, 2013
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you are saying that you hold the scepter of all truth and judgment over character. Calling people liars from your position is amazing. My point is you are passing judgment on people and things from a position of what truth, your non or part knowledge.
I don't think we can judge all liars, only the most obvious ones.

You are far more obvious than most.

Level 9

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Everett, WA

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#84012
Mar 30, 2013
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe Dr. Miller was America's most experienced Glaciologist, as far as time on the ice as a professional. He studied mostly on teh Juneau ice feild but spent time around the earth also. I was not priming him for the answer, he offered it without hesitation. Asked him about Greenland cores and CO etc. and he said in his opinion, it's all to homogenized to really be sure that deep. An interesting indicator is the depth of a flight of WW2 aircraft that were forced down on the shelf. We never talked faith.
On the number of human remains vs population statistics, with the power of the web, it should not be hard to check how that plays out.
Please, do not defame a man who is not hear to defend himself.

If you want to make that sort of insulting claim against Miller then you must provide some sort of evidence that he was such a full fledged idiot.

Seriously this looks like just another one of your lies.

In fact since the age of the ice caps is far greater than 50,000 years it is very obvious that he would not have made a statement about carbon dioxide.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Lagrangian L2

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#84013
Mar 30, 2013
 
Colorado Chick wrote:
STOP IT!!!...I feel a headache coming on..MIDOL PLEASE!!
Where's my Coors??

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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Since: Jun 11

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#84014
Mar 30, 2013
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> No!
You can not rule it out completely.
There were thriving population around that area, so the people then thought it was global due to the massive nature of the flood. Get that!
All those people in the thriving populations died in the flood. Any people not killed by the flood would know it wasn't global.

I'm sorry Charles, but the global flood really did not happen and if it was just local and small; how did Noah's Ark get 14,000 feet up the side of the mountain.

The story is just a parable/allegory.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#84015
Mar 30, 2013
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Ok, for the sake of this arguments, lets say you guys are right, what have you done to stop the menace of the world.
Technology is good, but at the same time bad.
Many daily, monthly and yearly die of plane/ air crash, auto crash and the likes.
Charles, I truly wish I had the answer to all the bad in the word.
All I can do as an individual is live a good life, bring up my children to be good citizens and live a life without drugs or evil.
We contribute to charities and help the community and generally try to set good examples to those around us.

People in this world are always going to subject themselves to some risks. No way around it...it comes with the territory

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84020
Mar 30, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> No what you are doing is psychological and a type Socratic thinking, of which has little influence in modern scientific thinking. There is no law that can overturn truth.
A scientific law is the truth. The truth must follow the universal constant principle a well. Just observing empirical evidence and interpreting the data does not make it a scientific law or truth.

I prefer to use the term self- evident truth instead of the word truth. Both or the same by the constant principle because they contain the word truth! I choose one definition over the other because it is backed with empirical evidence, itís un-deniable and itís simple to explain.

ALL UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS IS SCIENTIFIC! Donít forget, a scientific law is a universal statement backed with empirical evidence and verified repeatedly which demonstrates it is CONSTANTLY producing the same (law of non-contradictory) results.

NOTE: When I use all caps itís like me using a high-lighter on a piece of paper. I can ensure you I am not yelling.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#84021
Mar 30, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
A scientific law is the truth. The truth must follow the universal constant principle a well. Just observing empirical evidence and interpreting the data does not make it a scientific law or truth.
I prefer to use the term self- evident truth instead of the word truth. Both or the same by the constant principle because they contain the word truth! I choose one definition over the other because it is backed with empirical evidence, itís un-deniable and itís simple to explain.
ALL UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS IS SCIENTIFIC! Donít forget, a scientific law is a universal statement backed with empirical evidence and verified repeatedly which demonstrates it is CONSTANTLY producing the same (law of non-contradictory) results.
NOTE: When I use all caps itís like me using a high-lighter on a piece of paper. I can ensure you I am not yelling.

All laws were based on exactly that , observation. In fact the term scientific law is out dated and not used anymore because the fact that......You are wrong but...
You are nearly correct, where you fail miserably is not realizing that scientific law is never an absolute determination.

It is a definition to the best of ability at the time, these however can be altered in light of a more accurate definition.
Such was the determination of the universal law of gravitation where 43 arc seconds per century discrepancy existed in Mercury's orbit , this is less than 1/1000th of a degree but is explained by the Theory Of Relativity. So the truth is a definition of something, but the definitions can be refined and made more accurate, hence laws can be superseded and why we don't call them laws anymore. They are simply classical theory, not theory like a wild guess but scientific theory. This is also where terminology fails the layman , as a scientist know the difference between theory and hypothesis vs a deep rooted hunch brought by superstition.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

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#84022
Mar 30, 2013
 
Christians or any other religions who documents mediate for the name of your GOD! Please give me your definition on how ALL humans should behave on planet earth?
Hence, How do your teachings from the name of your GOD tell "ME" how do I suppose to behave?

__________

People who support and up-hold the theory of evolution. How does your theory tell me or influence the civil laws of the United States of America? Likewise, non-citizens of the United States of America, what and how do you determine your laws that tell humans how they should behave?

A law is universal and constant. IT SHOULD NEVER CHANGE and it should govern all humans on planet earth. Natural Law and Civil law should be one law governing all humans on planet earth. Because the natural LAW governs ALL humans on planet earth EQUALLY, thus should the civil law EQUALLY!

SCIENCE MISSION IS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS! Likewise, the truth is the answer to all problems!
Creation Vs. evolution is the topic at hand!
Who concept and methods on the origin of MAN-KIND can solve this riddle?

“talk to the kitteh”

Since: Jun 10

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#84023
Mar 30, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Giraffes who cannot reach the higher food die. They don't pass on their genes.
Giraffes born with longer necks can reach the higher food and survive. They get to pass on their genes.
BS. Giraffes don't rely only on food plants that are tall.

http://www.macroevolution.net/what-do-giraffe...

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