Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 222984 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#84112 Mar 31, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What racist views?
The word "race" had a different meaning then than it does now. He was definitely less racist than the average person of that time. Darwin's so called "racism" is simply another lie told by creatards.
Now I don't know what happened between you and your professor. It is possible that he was in the wrong or you could have simply kept asking stupid questions, and yes there is such a thing as a stupid question.
Most of the people who argue against evolution purposefully keep themselves ignorant of science and the scientific method.
Since evolution is observed just about everywhere what do you have against the theory of evolution, which merely explains observed fact?
Did I say I was arguing against evolution with the professor?, no.

My comment is attacks the attitude of the professor or scientist.

Yes, Darwin WAS racist, I have posted his own words on this thread.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84113 Mar 31, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Don't remember your little bee and flower debacle, huh? that took me three seconds to shoot down...
Oh dear, I don't recall you shooting me down. I must've been the gun in your pants eh.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84114 Mar 31, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I say I was arguing against evolution with the professor?, no.
My comment is attacks the attitude of the professor or scientist.
Yes, Darwin WAS racist, I have posted his own words on this thread.
Do you want to post them one more time? Can you include proper links if you do so?

And I didn't say that you were arguing creationism against the professor, I merely noted that what you described sounds like a failing of many creationists.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84115 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is the foundation of all biological sciences.
Yes pharmacology is dependent on evolutionary biology.
I am not a evolution major, but can tell you the science in any field can be a "hard science" depending on the level you take it to.
But there are 5 critical subjects in all biology, evolution being one of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology#Foundati...
The subjects I studied focused in on physics mostly and was TEC.
Here is what Princeton say's..
Evolution Research
Evolution is a central unifying concept in biology. The past 10 years has witnessed tremendous advances in the study of evolution, fueled by discoveries in molecular biology, genetics, genomics, and computational biology. With this array of tools, our faculty and partners in a variety of departments are probing the process of evolution at its most fundamental level, from the origins of life to the genetic basis of phenotypic differences within and between species. The multidisciplinary and quantitative nature of this research has forged particularly strong linkages between research groups in Molecular Biology with those in Computer Science, Physics, and Ecology and Evolutionary Biology.
http://molbio.princeton.edu/faculty/research/...
Perhaps you may need to rethink your position?
And yet biology doesn't have an actual definition for species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem

I studied pharmacology and it is not dependent on evolutionary biology but physiology. It has nothing to do with evolution of species.

What does computer science have to do with evolution?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84117 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet biology doesn't have an actual definition for species.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem
I studied pharmacology and it is not dependent on evolutionary biology but physiology. It has nothing to do with evolution of species.
What does computer science have to do with evolution?
There has always been arguments where to put species on the tree, a very hard job in some cases.
Perhaps you did not study pharmacology far enough to get to that.

And..

"What does computer science have to do with evolution?"

You may have to ask the professor at Princeton that one.:)

But I do know it takes crunching numbers to calculate how many mutations by the evolutionary clock or (molecular clock) over how much time it would take a species to develop certain characteristics in DNA, so they can look back and see when a species emerged. All part of molecular biology, which is tied to evolutionary biology. You need computers to deal with such numbers,
though they can be done by humans the time involved is ridiculous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_clock



“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84118 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
There has always been arguments where to put species on the tree, a very hard job in some cases.
Perhaps you did not study pharmacology far enough to get to that.
And..
"What does computer science have to do with evolution?"
You may have to ask the professor at Princeton that one.:)
But I do know it takes crunching numbers to calculate how many mutations by the evolutionary clock or (molecular clock) over how much time it would take a species to develop certain characteristics in DNA, so they can look back and see when a species emerged. All part of molecular biology, which is tied to evolutionary biology. You need computers to deal with such numbers,
though they can be done by humans the time involved is ridiculous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_clock
No I am not a pharmacist. But it doesn't matter. The study of evolution in Biology is irrelevant in Pharmacology. All it needs to is deal with drugs and its effects in the mind and body. With your logic, every major that requires biology means all majors are dependent on evolutionary biology. I believe that's fallacy of division.

What is the use of computer science when dealing with evolution when there is no hard evidence for mutations in speciation? Do you have evidence?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84119 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha, if you studied physics, how is evolution of species relevant in your study?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84120 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No I am not a pharmacist. But it doesn't matter. The study of evolution in Biology is irrelevant in Pharmacology. All it needs to is deal with drugs and its effects in the mind and body. With your logic, every major that requires biology means all majors are dependent on evolutionary biology. I believe that's fallacy of division.
What is the use of computer science when dealing with evolution when there is no hard evidence for mutations in speciation? Do you have evidence?
"no hard evidence for mutations in speciation"

You have to be joking right?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84121 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Aura Mytha, if you studied physics, how is evolution of species relevant in your study?
Did you quit learning? If you did how did you cut your brain off?
Because I have learned 3x as much as I learned in school , since school was out. In fact I have learned so much since school, school was only a point in my education. Much is because the internet, but I think mostly because I wanted to learn more.
So again I ask you , when did you stop learning, and how did you cut your brain off? I spend much time going over theory, watching lectures and visiting websites learning. As well as watching interesting videos relevant to biology, as life fascinates me it became a major curiosity.

I once doubted abiogenesis and evolution, but after careful study
and the above mentioned avenues of research. I'm positive of both and the evidence is there to make me so. Not faith nor hope , no will to be an advocate, in fact I wished it weren't true we are the descendants of primitive primates who were little more than savage animals.

But I reality hit hard and home with the realization, we are the evolutionary descendants of these savage animals. The proof is there ,all the evidence is there, there is no mistaking it, no covering it up or wishing it away. It's simply the truth.

Next question how did we get here? This is a bit more complex than tracing our genetic and fossil history, it involves going back into Earth's deep history , and the formation of this planet itself. This is my major, and the biggest mystery there ever was.
The clues are there though and we can see exactly what happened with what substances that were used. We do not know exactly how yet but are getting close to solving it.

Origin is a burning question that will absolutely not go away until we can conclusively answer how, and all options are on the table. So please don't say the old ones are rejected completely, but we must go where the evidence leads, And it leads to the Early Earth with shallow seas during the last of the heavy bombardment.
That is where it happened. The science is inspiring and is answering that burning question we all want to know.

http://watchdocumentary.org/watch/the-shape-o...

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84122 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
"no hard evidence for mutations in speciation"
You have to be joking right?
I'm not joking.

Science websites states there is no direct evidence for speciation because the event happened in the distant past. Which leaves the theory with just conjectures.

The fruit fly experiment given a different food source for the flies denotes geographic isolation for many generations that led to speciation. With that experimental logic, I can say that an Asian man is a different species than a Caucasian man because of isolating population and they have different food source. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?

What is the true definition of species considering the fact that neanderthals were able to interbreed with homo sapiens?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84123 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not joking.
Science websites states there is no direct evidence for speciation because the event happened in the distant past. Which leaves the theory with just conjectures.
The fruit fly experiment given a different food source for the flies denotes geographic isolation for many generations that led to speciation. With that experimental logic, I can say that an Asian man is a different species than a Caucasian man because of isolating population and they have different food source. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?
What is the true definition of species considering the fact that neanderthals were able to interbreed with homo sapiens?
There is no "true" definition of species. Many species that are close to each other can interbreed. As species separate at first they can breed together moderately well, ligers and tions come to mind, their offspring can still breed. As they separate more they have offspring that are generally infertile, such as mules.

Species is more a term of convenience rather than a specific term.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84124 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you quit learning? If you did how did you cut your brain off?
Because I have learned 3x as much as I learned in school , since school was out. In fact I have learned so much since school, school was only a point in my education. Much is because the internet, but I think mostly because I wanted to learn more.
So again I ask you , when did you stop learning, and how did you cut your brain off? I spend much time going over theory, watching lectures and visiting websites learning. As well as watching interesting videos relevant to biology, as life fascinates me it became a major curiosity.
I once doubted abiogenesis and evolution, but after careful study
and the above mentioned avenues of research. I'm positive of both and the evidence is there to make me so. Not faith nor hope , no will to be an advocate, in fact I wished it weren't true we are the descendants of primitive primates who were little more than savage animals.
But I reality hit hard and home with the realization, we are the evolutionary descendants of these savage animals. The proof is there ,all the evidence is there, there is no mistaking it, no covering it up or wishing it away. It's simply the truth.
Next question how did we get here? This is a bit more complex than tracing our genetic and fossil history, it involves going back into Earth's deep history , and the formation of this planet itself. This is my major, and the biggest mystery there ever was.
The clues are there though and we can see exactly what happened with what substances that were used. We do not know exactly how yet but are getting close to solving it.
Origin is a burning question that will absolutely not go away until we can conclusively answer how, and all options are on the table. So please don't say the old ones are rejected completely, but we must go where the evidence leads, And it leads to the Early Earth with shallow seas during the last of the heavy bombardment.
That is where it happened. The science is inspiring and is answering that burning question we all want to know.
http://watchdocumentary.org/watch/the-shape-o...
I haven't stopped learning.

With all that research you've done you have not spotted even one contradiction or inconsistencies in the theory of evolution?
Ranx

Naperville, IL

#84125 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No I am not a pharmacist. But it doesn't matter. The study of evolution in Biology is irrelevant in Pharmacology. All it needs to is deal with drugs and its effects in the mind and body. With your logic, every major that requires biology means all majors are dependent on evolutionary biology. I believe that's fallacy of division.
What is the use of computer science when dealing with evolution when there is no hard evidence for mutations in speciation? Do you have evidence?
You're absolutely right. It's not beneficial at all to know how microbes might evolve to become more resistant to the drugs we have access to. It's not like there's drug-resistant TB or methicillin-proof staph or anything like th..

Oh, wait.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84126 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not joking.
Science websites states there is no direct evidence for speciation because the event happened in the distant past. Which leaves the theory with just conjectures.
The fruit fly experiment given a different food source for the flies denotes geographic isolation for many generations that led to speciation. With that experimental logic, I can say that an Asian man is a different species than a Caucasian man because of isolating population and they have different food source. Do you not see the flaw in that logic?
What is the true definition of species considering the fact that neanderthals were able to interbreed with homo sapiens?
Okay there is only one species of primate that is human, all races fit within it, we are all the same species.
But the fact that Neandertal may have interbreed with humans is not surprising , as many species close on the tree in fact can.
It's not surprising and a welcome thought.
Because our cousins have all died out, and maybe one day we can bring them back. To me that would be the greatest thing. Such as
floresiensis dude would be so cool to see him goofing off at
Venice beach. The neandertal reconstructions show toward the end they were nearly indistinguishable from other humans.
As this 24,000 ya 4 year old boy shows us.

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/anth1...

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84127 Mar 31, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no "true" definition of species. Many species that are close to each other can interbreed. As species separate at first they can breed together moderately well, ligers and tions come to mind, their offspring can still breed. As they separate more they have offspring that are generally infertile, such as mules.
Species is more a term of convenience rather than a specific term.
How many liligers are there in the wild? It is very rare even in captivity and ligers and tions usually produce sterile offspring. Imagine the odds of macro-evolution that would take massive amounts of mutations for many generations?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84128 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't stopped learning.
With all that research you've done you have not spotted even one contradiction or inconsistencies in the theory of evolution?
The only contradiction is manufactured by those who oppose the idea, and within the scientific community, religious people included there is none. If there were it would falsify it and we would have to scrap it. So many scientists try and it is their job to do so, but are unable to because a convergence of the evidence make everything fit. From DNA, ERVs the fossil record , nestled hierarchy .
And the timeline itself support the evolution of life , through 5 major extinctions each time new species emerging. All this fits together in the fossil record.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84129 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
How many liligers are there in the wild? It is very rare even in captivity and ligers and tions usually produce sterile offspring. Imagine the odds of macro-evolution that would take massive amounts of mutations for many generations?
There are no ligers in the wild since they don't live in the same environments. Part of speciezation is the separation of the animals into different environments.

And as to the second part of your post what was the point?

We have had over 3 billion years since life first showed up for it to evolve.

The amount of difference in species matches up very nicely with the rate of evolution.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84130 Mar 31, 2013
Ranx wrote:
<quoted text>
You're absolutely right. It's not beneficial at all to know how microbes might evolve to become more resistant to the drugs we have access to. It's not like there's drug-resistant TB or methicillin-proof staph or anything like th..
Oh, wait.
Oh wow, we now have evidence for evolution. Superbugs!

How do you explain the Lederberg experiment when the antibiotic-resistant bacteria have already existed before penicillin or sreptomycin treatment? How do you explain endospores in bacteria that contain resistance to antibiotics? It can even survive an ultraviolet radiation. The wiki article even says that resitome or resistant gene may have already been present in the bacteria. Can you demonstrate the mutation if that did occur?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84131 Mar 31, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh wow, we now have evidence for evolution. Superbugs!
How do you explain the Lederberg experiment when the antibiotic-resistant bacteria have already existed before penicillin or sreptomycin treatment? How do you explain endospores in bacteria that contain resistance to antibiotics? It can even survive an ultraviolet radiation. The wiki article even says that resitome or resistant gene may have already been present in the bacteria. Can you demonstrate the mutation if that did occur?
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl.1/1800....

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Level 8

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#84132 Mar 31, 2013
DUDES...GIVE IT A REST...it's EASTER!!!

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