Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#84021 Mar 30, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
A scientific law is the truth. The truth must follow the universal constant principle a well. Just observing empirical evidence and interpreting the data does not make it a scientific law or truth.
I prefer to use the term self- evident truth instead of the word truth. Both or the same by the constant principle because they contain the word truth! I choose one definition over the other because it is backed with empirical evidence, itís un-deniable and itís simple to explain.
ALL UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS IS SCIENTIFIC! Donít forget, a scientific law is a universal statement backed with empirical evidence and verified repeatedly which demonstrates it is CONSTANTLY producing the same (law of non-contradictory) results.
NOTE: When I use all caps itís like me using a high-lighter on a piece of paper. I can ensure you I am not yelling.

All laws were based on exactly that , observation. In fact the term scientific law is out dated and not used anymore because the fact that......You are wrong but...
You are nearly correct, where you fail miserably is not realizing that scientific law is never an absolute determination.

It is a definition to the best of ability at the time, these however can be altered in light of a more accurate definition.
Such was the determination of the universal law of gravitation where 43 arc seconds per century discrepancy existed in Mercury's orbit , this is less than 1/1000th of a degree but is explained by the Theory Of Relativity. So the truth is a definition of something, but the definitions can be refined and made more accurate, hence laws can be superseded and why we don't call them laws anymore. They are simply classical theory, not theory like a wild guess but scientific theory. This is also where terminology fails the layman , as a scientist know the difference between theory and hypothesis vs a deep rooted hunch brought by superstition.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84022 Mar 30, 2013
Christians or any other religions who documents mediate for the name of your GOD! Please give me your definition on how ALL humans should behave on planet earth?
Hence, How do your teachings from the name of your GOD tell "ME" how do I suppose to behave?

__________

People who support and up-hold the theory of evolution. How does your theory tell me or influence the civil laws of the United States of America? Likewise, non-citizens of the United States of America, what and how do you determine your laws that tell humans how they should behave?

A law is universal and constant. IT SHOULD NEVER CHANGE and it should govern all humans on planet earth. Natural Law and Civil law should be one law governing all humans on planet earth. Because the natural LAW governs ALL humans on planet earth EQUALLY, thus should the civil law EQUALLY!

SCIENCE MISSION IS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS! Likewise, the truth is the answer to all problems!
Creation Vs. evolution is the topic at hand!
Who concept and methods on the origin of MAN-KIND can solve this riddle?

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#84023 Mar 30, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Giraffes who cannot reach the higher food die. They don't pass on their genes.
Giraffes born with longer necks can reach the higher food and survive. They get to pass on their genes.
BS. Giraffes don't rely only on food plants that are tall.

http://www.macroevolution.net/what-do-giraffe...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#84024 Mar 30, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
Christians or any other religions who documents mediate for the name of your GOD! Please give me your definition on how ALL humans should behave on planet earth?
Hence, How do your teachings from the name of your GOD tell "ME" how do I suppose to behave?
__________
People who support and up-hold the theory of evolution. How does your theory tell me or influence the civil laws of the United States of America? Likewise, non-citizens of the United States of America, what and how do you determine your laws that tell humans how they should behave?
A law is universal and constant. IT SHOULD NEVER CHANGE and it should govern all humans on planet earth. Natural Law and Civil law should be one law governing all humans on planet earth. Because the natural LAW governs ALL humans on planet earth EQUALLY, thus should the civil law EQUALLY!
SCIENCE MISSION IS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS! Likewise, the truth is the answer to all problems!
Creation Vs. evolution is the topic at hand!
Who concept and methods on the origin of MAN-KIND can solve this riddle?
The last guy that tried to make universal law ended up committing suicide . His name was Adolf Hitler.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84025 Mar 30, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>BS. Giraffes don't rely only on food plants that are tall.
http://www.macroevolution.net/what-do-giraffe...
Yes, but in typical giraffe habitat there is not enough low browse to keep giraffes fed all year round.

Thee may be times when they even eat mostly low browse. That does not mean that high browse is not the controlling dietary factor in their diet.

Your article only said that they eat other food besides high browse.
Mark

United States

#84026 Mar 30, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, do not defame a man who is not hear to defend himself.
If you want to make that sort of insulting claim against Miller then you must provide some sort of evidence that he was such a full fledged idiot.
Seriously this looks like just another one of your lies.
In fact since the age of the ice caps is far greater than 50,000 years it is very obvious that he would not have made a statement about carbon dioxide.
It appears the long age core dating is based on assumptions of uniform median precip/year = time per meter of ice, and doesn't account for early post-flood periods of extreme cycles and snowfall.(When you have polar temperatures make surface contact with warm "very good" oceans, you get catastrophic weather patters and extream snowfall. In other words, they have missed the catastrophe that created the base, just like they missed the radical pole reversals in the Steens.

"Dating is a difficult task. Five different dating methods have been used for Vostok cores, with differences such as 300 years at 100 m depth, 600yr at 200 m, 7000yr at 400 m, 5000yr at 800 m, 6000yr at 1600 m, and 5000yr at 1934 m.[24]"

The Greenland cores homogenize past 60,000 cycles, but then they call out 120,000 YO, how? Because uniform precip. is "assumed".

"Different dating methods makes comparison and interpretation difficult. Matching peaks by visual examination of Moulton and Vostok ice cores suggests a time difference of about 10,000 years but proper interpretation requires knowing the reasons for the differences"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core

http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/s...

As far as your baseless and crude comments about myself and Dr. Miller, without any knowledge of the facts is telling. You are wrong.
Mark

United States

#84027 Mar 30, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh my.
Mark has proof that the Ice caps are less than 6,000 years old. Form a noted glaciologist no less. He just forgot to publish that revolutionary claim
Maynard Miller is most famous for his work on the Juneau ice field. That is an actively flowing glacier and it is very possible that the age of the ice in it is less than 6,000 years. That does not mean the ice of the ice caps is only 6,000 years old. That has been shown by several dating methods to be much much older than that.
More made up stories by Mark. We have a very poor liar here.
Oh my, Joan M. came tomy wedding.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84029 Mar 30, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The last guy that tried to make universal law ended up committing suicide . His name was Adolf Hitler.
Was his way a universal law or not?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84030 Mar 30, 2013
By the way Mark, I see you have yet to post a link ot any paper of your supposed friend that supports your claim.

I bet that I will be waiting a long long time for it.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84031 Mar 30, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Was his way a universal law or not?
No.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84032 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You are nearly correct, where you fail miserably is not realizing that scientific law is never an absolute determination.
Nearly correct?! Am I correct or am I not! I canít be both at the same time. Remember the law of non-contradictory states I am either are or. Donít conclude if you are not certain (absolutely sure)!
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a definition to the best of ability at the time, these however can be altered in light of a more accurate definition.
Then you are claiming un-certainty (the law of non-contradiction does not apply until you claim certainty).
Me personally I conclude with scientific laws which or absolutes (I will prove absolutes exists in the laws of nature in the next quote).
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Such was the determination of the universal law of gravitation where 43 arc seconds per century discrepancy existed in Mercury's orbit , this is less than 1/1000th of a degree but is explained by the Theory Of Relativity.
The laws of gravity remain a universal constant unless the law of gravity (stopped) governing the planet of mercury 1/1000th of a degree and then started back governing the planet. This violates the law of non-contradiction which is an absolute
Absolutes exist in the laws of nature by the recording of history. Adolph Hitler war that happened will never un-happen and this is why history with Hitler will never, ever change which makes it a constant universal law in nature!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#84033 Mar 31, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Asked him about Greenland cores and CO etc. and he said in his opinion, it's all to homogenized to really be sure that deep. An interesting indicator is the depth of a flight of WW2 aircraft that were forced down on the shelf.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD410.h...

Creationist Claim CD410:

Ice cores are claimed to have as many as 135,000 annual layers. Yet airplanes of the Lost Squadron were buried under 263 feet of ice in forty-eight years, or about 5.5 feet per year. This contradicts the presumption that the wafer-thin layers in the ice cores could be annual layers.

Response:

Ice layers are counted by different methods (mainly, visible layers of hoar frost, visible dust layers, and layers of differing electrical conductivity) which have nothing to do with thickness. These methods corroborate each other and match with other independently determined dates (Seely 2003).

The airplanes landed near the shore of Greenland, where snow accumulation is rapid, at about 2 m per year. Allowing for some compaction due to the weight of the snow, that accounts for the depth of snow under which they are buried. The planes are also on an active glacier and have moved about 2 km since landing. Ice core dating takes place on stable ice fields, not active glaciers. The interior of Greenland, where ice cores were taken, receives much less snow. In Antarctica, where ice cores dating back more than 100,000 years have been collected, the rate of snow accumulation is much less still.

A report of "many hundreds" of layers in the ice above the Lost Squadron may also be explained by the airplanes' location on Greenland. That location is relatively warm because it is low and more southerly; its surface gets repeatedly melted during the summer, creating multiple melt layers per year. At the site of the GISP2 ice core, melting occurs only about once every couple centuries. Melt layers are easily distinguished in ice cores. The more than 100,000 layers in ice cores are definitely not melt layers (Seely 2003).
Links:

Kuechmann, F. C., 2000. Creationist comedy. http://noanswersingenesis.org.au/kuechmann_cr...
References:

Seely, Paul H. 2003. The GISP2 ice core: Ultimate proof that Noah's flood was not global. Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith 55(4): 252-260. http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Se...
Further Reading:

Seely, Paul H. 2003. The GISP2 ice core: Ultimate proof that Noah's flood was not global. Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith 55(4): 252-260. http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Se...

Brinkman, Matt, 1995. Ice core dating. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#84034 Mar 31, 2013
From a Christian scientist, no less...

The GISP2 Ice Core:
Ultimate Proof that Noahís Flood Was Not Global

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Se...

Quote:

"Recently an ice core nearly two miles long has been extracted from the Greenland ice sheet. The first 110,000 annual layers of snow in that ice core (GISP2) have been visually counted and corroborated by two to three different and independent methods as well as by correlation with volcanic eruptions and other datable events. Since the ice sheet would have floated away in the event of a global flood, the ice core is strong evidence that there was no global flood any time in the last 110,000 years. "
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#84035 Mar 31, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Dammit, Mikey!
WHAT?
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#84036 Mar 31, 2013
Natural systems are defined or bounded and the essential features or main aspects are outlined and indicated in ways that can be determined if we make explicit observations related to their cycles. All natural systems are patterned to function for a purpose and the patternmay not be easily seen or understood as to their paths and formed conclusions.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#84037 Mar 31, 2013
I have no doubt that the Bible is true and our side will bring the truth of it to light, if the powers that be don't overwhelm us with their numbers of so-called scientific experts who cloud good reasoning. The fields are ripe and the workers are few, very very few!

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84038 Mar 31, 2013
Absolute law is a code for human conduct that is derived from the morals that are believed to be universal to all human beings. It is also sometimes known as natural law, referencing the idea that it reflects the laws of nature rather than the laws developed by humans. Many nations incorporate absolute law into their legal systems in addition to positive law, which are the laws created by society in order to make it function more smoothly.

The concept of absolute law is very old. Many societies have had philosophers who argued that humans are bound by universal moral codes of conduct. These moral codes are believed to be innate and unchanging because the principles of morality do not alter even as society itself undergoes shifts. Murder is a classic example of an action that is believed to go against human nature and it is notable that many societies historically and in the modern era have criminalized and heavily penalized murder.

Proponents of the concept of absolute law argue that, unlike positive law, it is not developed by legal authorities in response to social needs. Absolute law is instead natural to a society and it is possible to arrive at it by following a logical series of steps. People can understand absolute law without having a grasp of positive law because they should have an innate moral sense that governs basic behaviors.

>>>> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-absolute-law....

Remember I told you science has an answer for a universal moral law that is scientific. When I say I discovered a scientific moral law it means it stand to reason or is the same as a scientific law.

ANYBODY who claims science do not deals in absolutes does not know the true (ABSOLUTE) meaning of science. The truth is what gave birth to the scientific method.

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84039 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
I have no doubt that the Bible is true and our side will bring the truth of it to light, if the powers that be don't overwhelm us with their numbers of so-called scientific experts who cloud good reasoning. The fields are ripe and the workers are few, very few!
Truths (absolutes) your bible speak from page one to the last page?

My friend, who seeks the truth and want to know of GOD, I speak to you in a parable. Why do you pray and ask GDD to control people? Do the GOD you love control people?

For example, you pray to GOD and ask him that all humans in the world to know you and submit to Christianity. Why would a creature created by GOD ask such when GOD created you free (ability to choose)? Why would you ask GOD to take something away that he gave all his creatures (ability to choose)?

Everything in your bible is not true (not of GOD). If you are truly a truth seeker you will ONLY hold on to that which is true (absolute) and not violating GOD creation (laws of nature).

If you truly do this, you will not hold your bible as the official law to human morality.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#84040 Mar 31, 2013
Gillette wrote:
From a Christian scientist, no less...
The GISP2 Ice Core:
Ultimate Proof that Noahís Flood Was Not Global
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Se...
Quote:
"Recently an ice core nearly two miles long has been extracted from the Greenland ice sheet. The first 110,000 annual layers of snow in that ice core (GISP2) have been visually counted and corroborated by two to three different and independent methods as well as by correlation with volcanic eruptions and other datable events. Since the ice sheet would have floated away in the event of a global flood, the ice core is strong evidence that there was no global flood any time in the last 110,000 years. "
A fitting answer to the question I give many creationists: "Does ice float in your world?"

Of course they will come up with ridiculous excuses. One of my favorites is that during the flood, since it was a magical event, there could have been multiple layers of ice laid down. Of course that fails when it is pointed out that during the flood ice still would have floated, and 100,000 layers in one year is still ridiculous.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#84041 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
Truths (absolutes) your bible speak from page one to the last page?
My friend, who seeks the truth and want to know of GOD, I speak to you in a parable. Why do you pray and ask GDD to control people? Do the GOD you love control people?
For example, you pray to GOD and ask him that all humans in the world to know you and submit to Christianity. Why would a creature created by GOD ask such when GOD created you free (ability to choose)? Why would you ask GOD to take something away that he gave all his creatures (ability to choose)?
Everything in your bible is not true (not of GOD). If you are truly a truth seeker you will ONLY hold on to that which is true (absolute) and not violating GOD creation (laws of nature).
If you truly do this, you will not hold your bible as the official law to human morality.
All men can be liars, but the Creator is true and I believe he is the God of te Bible. Truth seekers will find him.

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