Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221264 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84058 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.

But you reject the truth, and that was your choice.
FREE SERVANT
#84059 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
But you reject the truth, and that was your choice.
I can not tell you how to believe, but I know what I know to be so.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84060 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I can not tell you how to believe, but I know what I know to be so.
No. you believe what you believ is true. it has been proven to be not true, yet you still believe. that is denial of reality...

that is not a healthy world view.
FREE SERVANT
#84061 Mar 31, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>No. you believe what you believ is true. it has been proven to be not true, yet you still believe. that is denial of reality...
that is not a healthy world view.
You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#84062 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
This is funny coming form you.

We have demonstrated many times on this thread and others, including just yesterday with "Mark," how fundamentalist Christians like you will say any silly thing in their attempts to make a "scientific" case for a young earth and instant special creation of species 6000 years ago.

Your pastors and Bible teachers are actually the ones who will "say anything" in defense of their indefensible position.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84063 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
You are right, except you have the roles reversed.
This is the root of "choice" And why I told you you "chose" to deny the truth.

Evolution is a truth you chose to deny.
It has nothing to do with god, but in your belief it does.
Hence the denial.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84064 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You choose to deny reality and are in denial of the truths that are given in the Bible. You have faith in men who will say anything to promote Evolution, if people will buy it.
No, i embrace reality fully. the bible is a lie. it is proven. it was not written under any divine inspiration...proven fact.

rational people do not believe everything that is proposed as evolution or evidence for evolution; it is all analyzed and verified and open for debate.

sorry, you are just wrong. it is you that is denying proven reality...but that is what cults and cult members do.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#84065 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>If you reject the truth, it is your choice. I have many reasons for knowing the Bible is true.
Yes, all of us outside of your bronze age fairy tale cult are well aware. They include willful ignorance, delusion, holier-than-thou-arrogance, childlike belief in fairy tales, rejection of science and history, rejection of reality, hatred of anything that doesn't conform to your silly "literal and inerrant holy book" cult, etc..

“Universal Conscious Conscience”

Level 3

Since: Feb 08

Planet Earth

#84066 Mar 31, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Your marriage of the philosophical to the scientific is in error. Science does not deal in absolutes, because that leaves no room for error or flaws to exist.
There can be philosophically and universally accepted laws to govern people , but these are not scientific laws and cannot be considered "scientific moral laws" they could be accurately described as "philosophical moral laws" or "universal moral laws".
When the scientific law was discovered in physics “The law of non-contradiction” was validated in philosophy and backed with empirical evidence. The scientific law discovered in physics principles states a universal law is constant (un-changing/absolute) that governs all in the universe.
“Gravity is described from the point of view of a universal law. This implies that gravity is a force that should behave in similar ways regardless of where you are in the universe”
“G is the universal gravitational constant. It is basically a conversion factor to adjust the number and units so they come out to the correct value. This is a universal constant so it is true everywhere”.

>>>> http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/ph...

My point is a scientific law such as the “law of gravity” is constant (non-contradictory) and will always govern all. Gravity do not govern us one day and govern not govern us a different day. This would be a contradiction and would violate “the law of non-contradiction” which is founded not only in the scientific law of gravity but all scientific laws regardless of which branch of science you use.

Trying to disprove an absolute (scientific law) found in validated in nature is foolish/illogical.

Last example, using the scientific method found in history also validates absolutes exist in nature because you cannot un-do history. It is constant (never changes) or absolute because what I did yesterday is an absolute event that can be never changed.
To claim a scientific law is not an absolute is a foolish/illogical argument.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#84067 Mar 31, 2013
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, all of us outside of your bronze age fairy tale cult are well aware. They include willful ignorance, delusion, holier-than-thou-arrogance, childlike belief in fairy tales, rejection of science and history, rejection of reality, hatred of anything that doesn't conform to your silly "literal and inerrant holy book" cult, etc..
MIDutch, welcome back! Have you been away? Or just posting on other threads?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#84068 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
When the scientific law was discovered in physics “The law of non-contradiction” was validated in philosophy and backed with empirical evidence. The scientific law discovered in physics principles states a universal law is constant (un-changing/absolute) that governs all in the universe.
“Gravity is described from the point of view of a universal law. This implies that gravity is a force that should behave in similar ways regardless of where you are in the universe”
“G is the universal gravitational constant. It is basically a conversion factor to adjust the number and units so they come out to the correct value. This is a universal constant so it is true everywhere”.
>>>> http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/ph...
My point is a scientific law such as the “law of gravity” is constant (non-contradictory) and will always govern all. Gravity do not govern us one day and govern not govern us a different day. This would be a contradiction and would violate “the law of non-contradiction” which is founded not only in the scientific law of gravity but all scientific laws regardless of which branch of science you use.
Trying to disprove an absolute (scientific law) found in validated in nature is foolish/illogical.
Last example, using the scientific method found in history also validates absolutes exist in nature because you cannot un-do history. It is constant (never changes) or absolute because what I did yesterday is an absolute event that can be never changed.
To claim a scientific law is not an absolute is a foolish/illogical argument.

You obviously are not a scientist, or even a scientifically minded person. Falsifiability is paramount in science, it is a goal of finding the truth, and why nothing is absolute.
We have constants we call laws that we think maybe constant, and unchanging.

But I proved to you they are not absolute even though they are constants, Newton was 99.00 % right , but Einstein is 99.1 % right. Both are still flawed in some aspects when put to the test.
Neither are absolute and it is not foolish/illogical to realize it.

It is however scientific, and any number of scientific minds on this thread will tell you this.

E=MC^2 overrules F=Ma , but F=Ma is accurate enough to a point.
Where beyond this point it is no longer true and relativistic
equations must take presidence.
FREE SERVANT
#84069 Mar 31, 2013
If those of us who know truth do not stand up for it, then we may allowing those among us who don't know to be taken advantage of and indirectly letting them fall for anything.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#84070 Mar 31, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
If those of us who know truth do not stand up for it, then we may allowing those among us who don't know to be taken advantage of and indirectly letting them fall for anything.
Isn't that exactly what i am doing when i say the bible and the religious cult based on it is a proven lie?

glad you support my efforts and see the tuth in them...

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#84071 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
When the scientific law was discovered in physics “The law of non-contradiction” was validated in philosophy and backed with empirical evidence. The scientific law discovered in physics principles states a universal law is constant (un-changing/absolute) that governs all in the universe.
“Gravity is described from the point of view of a universal law. This implies that gravity is a force that should behave in similar ways regardless of where you are in the universe”
“G is the universal gravitational constant. It is basically a conversion factor to adjust the number and units so they come out to the correct value. This is a universal constant so it is true everywhere”.
>>>> http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/ph...
My point is a scientific law such as the “law of gravity” is constant (non-contradictory) and will always govern all. Gravity do not govern us one day and govern not govern us a different day. This would be a contradiction and would violate “the law of non-contradiction” which is founded not only in the scientific law of gravity but all scientific laws regardless of which branch of science you use.
Trying to disprove an absolute (scientific law) found in validated in nature is foolish/illogical.
Last example, using the scientific method found in history also validates absolutes exist in nature because you cannot un-do history. It is constant (never changes) or absolute because what I did yesterday is an absolute event that can be never changed.
To claim a scientific law is not an absolute is a foolish/illogical argument.
Is this the law you are talking about??
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#84072 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
Giving everybody one! NO EXCEPTIONS!
Apparently you didn't understand what I was getting at. Do banana beef sandwiches help us decide what is moral?
Infinite Force wrote:
Don’t worry, my method of reasoning got it and it follows the scientific method without using controlled experiments in the lab. Don’t worry it’s backed with empirical data as well.
This self-evident truth is un-deniable as well!
Nah, your method is very Aristotelian. And we threw that out many many centuries ago.
Infinite Force wrote:
My discovery is a scientific moral law! I just want to know how you concluded this don’t exist by your scientific method? The answer is super simplistic to understand.
By the simple fact you've been unable to demonstrate it. Morality is not determined by science. It's an abstract concept. Like Star Wars.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#84073 Mar 31, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you are saying that you hold the scepter of all truth and judgment over character. Calling people liars from your position is amazing. My point is you are passing judgment on people and things from a position of what truth, your non or part knowledge.
Never claimed to hold any such thing at all. All I do is point out people's actions. If they lie then there is no problem in calling them a liar. It's that simple.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#84074 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
<quoted text>
A scientific law is the truth. The truth must follow the universal constant principle a well. Just observing empirical evidence and interpreting the data does not make it a scientific law or truth.
I prefer to use the term self- evident truth instead of the word truth. Both or the same by the constant principle because they contain the word truth! I choose one definition over the other because it is backed with empirical evidence, it’s un-deniable and it’s simple to explain.
ALL UNIVERSAL STATEMENTS IS SCIENTIFIC! Don’t forget, a scientific law is a universal statement backed with empirical evidence and verified repeatedly which demonstrates it is CONSTANTLY producing the same (law of non-contradictory) results.
NOTE: When I use all caps it’s like me using a high-lighter on a piece of paper. I can ensure you I am not yelling.
Mercury broke the law. So what do you suggest we do? Arrest it?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#84075 Mar 31, 2013
Infinite Force wrote:
Christians or any other religions who documents mediate for the name of your GOD! Please give me your definition on how ALL humans should behave on planet earth?
Hence, How do your teachings from the name of your GOD tell "ME" how do I suppose to behave?
__________
People who support and up-hold the theory of evolution. How does your theory tell me or influence the civil laws of the United States of America? Likewise, non-citizens of the United States of America, what and how do you determine your laws that tell humans how they should behave?
A law is universal and constant. IT SHOULD NEVER CHANGE and it should govern all humans on planet earth. Natural Law and Civil law should be one law governing all humans on planet earth. Because the natural LAW governs ALL humans on planet earth EQUALLY, thus should the civil law EQUALLY!
SCIENCE MISSION IS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS! Likewise, the truth is the answer to all problems!
Creation Vs. evolution is the topic at hand!
Who concept and methods on the origin of MAN-KIND can solve this riddle?
This is the problem. Not everyone agrees with what laws should govern everybody. Which is why you will find all laws are different in every single country on the planet without exception. Heck, even in the US alone they differ, which is why they are different in different states. Take the death penalty for example. Legal in some states, not on others. Should it be legal? Is it "moral"? Who decides? How do we tell if it's moral or not objectively by using the scientific method?

You can't.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#84076 Mar 31, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Isn't that exactly what i am doing when i say the bible and the religious cult based on it is a proven lie?
glad you support my efforts and see the tuth in them...
you don't understand anything and you know what a LIE is? you are clueless.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#84077 Mar 31, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
It appears the long age core dating is based on assumptions of uniform median precip/year = time per meter of ice, and doesn't account for early post-flood periods
There have been many floods. There was no global flood.
Mark wrote:
of extreme cycles and snowfall.(When you have polar temperatures make surface contact with warm "very good" oceans, you get catastrophic weather patters and extream snowfall. In other words, they have missed the catastrophe that created the base, just like they missed the radical pole reversals in the Steens.
"Dating is a difficult task. Five different dating methods have been used for Vostok cores, with differences such as 300 years at 100 m depth, 600yr at 200 m, 7000yr at 400 m, 5000yr at 800 m, 6000yr at 1600 m, and 5000yr at 1934 m.[24]"
The Greenland cores homogenize past 60,000 cycles, but then they call out 120,000 YO, how? Because uniform precip. is "assumed".
"Different dating methods makes comparison and interpretation difficult. Matching peaks by visual examination of Moulton and Vostok ice cores suggests a time difference of about 10,000 years but proper interpretation requires knowing the reasons for the differences"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core
http://www.iceandclimate.nbi.ku.dk/research/s...
As far as your baseless and crude comments about myself and Dr. Miller, without any knowledge of the facts is telling. You are wrong.
Right. Therefore we must accept your anecdotes at face value despite the fact you cannot support them and Millers own words indicate he was not a YEC. Ergo he really WAS forced to write under an old-Earth paradigm by the evil atheist evolutionist time-travelling conspiracy, or...

... you're just another typical fundie liar for Jesus.

Since the latter has already been established only one of these seem more likely.

What's the "scientific theory" of creationism?

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