Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173594 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83779 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> There are several. One would be Gobekli tepe.
!2'000 years ago, hunter gatherers built a 30 or more acre complex with elaborate carvings in stones weighing tons..then 1000 or so yrs later they carefully fill it all back in with sand and stone and completely disappear...
What were these "apemen" who were not considered far from treehangers with primitive spears etc. possibly thinking of? Fooling the world into thinking they possessed intelligence and abilities thousands of years beyond their capability and social structure?
How dare they screw with the future anthropologists like that!..knowing full well they were totally out of place in history and all.
Funny, I thought it was just made by humans and this, being only 12,000 years old tops was more of archaeological significance rather than evolutionary significance.(shrug)

Just checking, you're not a von Däniken fan are you?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83780 Mar 29, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
The only flood in the area that falls into the Biblical slot is dated to 2900 BC so if the Bible can stretch there it works. And like we have been telling you there was no interruption to the rest of the world and all the civilizations around the world that were flourishing both at 2900 BC or 2350 BC.
None of the Biblical stories fit the rest of the world civilizations going on at the time that the Hebrews were writing their opus.
Why do you suppose a God would contact a small tribe of wandering goat herders in the Middle East and not the big civilizations in China and India and the Indus valley Civilizations that wouldn't have to go through the crap that the goat herders did??
Serious problems with the Jewish God that you guys adopted thru the efforts of St.Paul
Atheist compositions!
Paul is not the founder of Christianity, but Jesus Christ is.
Christianity, the bible is growing and spreading in the east and far east.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83781 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Imagine in the not-distant future, if humanity sends a colony to Mars. They live there, gradually expanding their numbers as the years go by. And gradually, babies are born with longer, lighter limbs as natural selection favors thinner bodies in the lower gravity of Mars.
Say also that they begin to gradually have lung changes as they begin to acclimate to the different Martian atmosphere- say the way we know that some fish on earth developed into lungfish/mudskippers and then transitioned into full air-breathing land creatures.
After a long time, say some of these "Martians" come back to visit the earth, looking very different and having different lung setups -- perhaps they would need breathing tanks to walk around on earth.
Would earth people want to "breed" with them? Would offspring be sterile, or even possible?
Or would they be too different, because of the changes brought about by their situation of reproductive isolation?
Depends on how long they were gone and how much genetic divergence had taken place. We know that neanderthals were able to interbreed with us although they were different enough to be noted as a distinct subspecies of humans. Until we hunted them or shagged them into oblivion that is.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83782 Mar 29, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. That's why I'm not as ignorant as you.
Irony!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83783 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> So you think we may reach that point of non-reproductability?
Eventually. Might not even be for hundreds of thousands of years though. Assuming we're not all wiped out by some freak plague, asteroid, blow ourselves up in WW3 or the fundie apocalypse comes about.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#83784 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I don't know where you get this idea that I am a creationist, but if that makes you feel all fuzzy, then have at it.
I don't see any "goal" in evolution. In fact, from what I see it is more of regression than progression.
Yes my ancestors died, so that I might live, they just had no fuggin clue about me :).
My parents were creationists, the screwed and created me.
But it wasn't regression, they created the perfect animal...he he heh

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83785 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Why there are PLENTY of humanoid species which can no longer interbreed.
They're called the great apes.
You are talking about a hominid line which is only "guessed" about at best, and 8 million years ago in that split-if it in fact even happened then. So far it is merely speculation.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83786 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Of course. But what of the thousands of years of separation worldwide...before that travel had any effect?
.
Current estimates put human migration from Africa at 125,000 years ago at most. Neanderthals is more around 300,000 years ago, and we could still interbreed. So based on that it looks like modern humans could still have many thousands of years longer before we find divergence significantly noticeable. It's not that there is no effect, it's just that the effect is that slow.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#83787 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, I thought it was just made by humans and this, being only 12,000 years old tops was more of archaeological significance rather than evolutionary significance.(shrug)
Just checking, you're not a von Däniken fan are you?
They should name major league teams after creationists Von Daniken and atheists , we could cheer them on .
The ancient aliens are ahead by 7, 1st and 10 on the 2 yard line in the fourth quarter with 2 minutes left to go , this could be the first time they defeated the Jesus freaks in the superbowl in NFL history !
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83788 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> This is neither child's play nor comedy, but this is reality. For we work by faith and not by sight.
Food for thought, Frodo.
Yes I know that you actively decide to not see reality in favour of faith. I have thought about these things Chuck.

And I'm still waiting on that cheque.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83789 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Was there a flood or not?
The answer is, there was flood and the bible said so.
The issue is, whether it was global or regional.
To me, i believe the people then thought it was global, this does not mean that the bible is in error.
The magnitude of the flood led to that conclusion.
Since the Bible said it was global then the Bible was in error. Since the Bible said donkeys and lizards talk the Bible was in error. Since the Adam & Eve and Noah scenarios are not genetically viable the Bible was in error. Since the Earth is not a flat square circle at the center of a geocentric universe the Bible was in error.

I understand your wish to make allowances for the ignorance of primitive goatherders who didn't get out much but you can't say that the Bible "Word of God" then blame any "minor" errors on the goatherders who wrote it.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83790 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What scientific alternative to evolution do you propose that does a better job of explaining the evidence? Thanks in advance.
I don't think there is a better alternative. I think that the cards are stacked to support the academic club attitude of "money" though.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83791 Mar 29, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>well this is not one of those "several"..
Why did they build stonehenge?
this archeological site in no way shows what you purported it shows..
I'm beginning to think you really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about...
Oh wait!? Were those builders intellectually advanced and their tools also? WTF!?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83792 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Nope. I don't buy it.
Denovo mutations are "disorders".
What you personally buy is irrelevant. "Disorders" is subjective. Mutations can be beneficial, detrimental or neutral. All humans are born with around on average 125 to 175 mutations as normal. Most are neutral.
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
Somatic mutations can not be passed on to new generations.
But anything passed on through the germ line IS passed on to new generations. That's how you end up with half your DNA from your mother and half from your father. This is how reproduction works. You will not gain any mutations your parents got from sunburn.
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
Hereditary mutations come from the parent(s), and are inherent in the cells of the offspring.
If your father is born with a mutation and it's passed on to you, technically speaking it is not a mutation when describing the same DNA base(s) in your genome. It IS described as a mutation in HIS genome because neither of his parents had it. A mutation is simply a change of DNA. And DNA does change with each generation.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83793 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Oh wait!? Were those builders intellectually advanced and their tools also? WTF!?
so? was there a point there? was there a point to the whole post about an archeological site and what that has to do with evolution?

do try to have a point when you post, dear...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83794 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it does not need to directly connect the fossils. All the theory of evolution is required to do is make successful scientific predictions. And it did. Observed genetics matches the nested hierarchies observed in the fossil record. This is not necessary if evolution is incorrect.
Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.

Some of the things are in order...others are not.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83795 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I don't know where you get this idea that I am a creationist, but if that makes you feel all fuzzy, then have at it.
I don't see any "goal" in evolution. In fact, from what I see it is more of regression than progression.
Essentially all arguments against evolution stem from creationist sources, whether you are aware of this or not. 99% of anti-science anti-evolutionists tend to be creationists. The rest are scientific cranks (ranging from new-agers, alt-science to UFO nuts) or ego-driven nihilists. The particulars of the anti-science stance are not really important and it's only a minor amusement when wondering if a creationist is a young-Earther or old-Earther.

However the "devolution" idea ultimately comes from the creationist apologetics for "The Fall" in the Bible, and is really just an excuse for why creationists are unable to make any scientific predictions based on creationism. However since the human population is increasing and genetic variance along with it, that kinda flies in the face of the "devolution" idea on a genetic level. Genetic entropy only becomes a problem when sterility or lack of genetic variance is an issue - tends to affect smaller populations such as some big cat populations where inbreeding is a problem. I think I heard something recently about male sterility being a cause for concern in France though.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83796 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Atheist compositions!
Paul is not the founder of Christianity, but Jesus Christ is.
Christianity, the bible is growing and spreading in the east and far east.
I thought it was the Nicean Council using Paulanity as their guide.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#83797 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Irony!
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#83798 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.
Some of the things are in order...others are not.

Actually ,
the monkeys just sorta watched the apes build them :).

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