Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221490 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83789 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Was there a flood or not?
The answer is, there was flood and the bible said so.
The issue is, whether it was global or regional.
To me, i believe the people then thought it was global, this does not mean that the bible is in error.
The magnitude of the flood led to that conclusion.
Since the Bible said it was global then the Bible was in error. Since the Bible said donkeys and lizards talk the Bible was in error. Since the Adam & Eve and Noah scenarios are not genetically viable the Bible was in error. Since the Earth is not a flat square circle at the center of a geocentric universe the Bible was in error.

I understand your wish to make allowances for the ignorance of primitive goatherders who didn't get out much but you can't say that the Bible "Word of God" then blame any "minor" errors on the goatherders who wrote it.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83790 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What scientific alternative to evolution do you propose that does a better job of explaining the evidence? Thanks in advance.
I don't think there is a better alternative. I think that the cards are stacked to support the academic club attitude of "money" though.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83791 Mar 29, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>well this is not one of those "several"..
Why did they build stonehenge?
this archeological site in no way shows what you purported it shows..
I'm beginning to think you really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about...
Oh wait!? Were those builders intellectually advanced and their tools also? WTF!?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83792 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Nope. I don't buy it.
Denovo mutations are "disorders".
What you personally buy is irrelevant. "Disorders" is subjective. Mutations can be beneficial, detrimental or neutral. All humans are born with around on average 125 to 175 mutations as normal. Most are neutral.
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
Somatic mutations can not be passed on to new generations.
But anything passed on through the germ line IS passed on to new generations. That's how you end up with half your DNA from your mother and half from your father. This is how reproduction works. You will not gain any mutations your parents got from sunburn.
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
Hereditary mutations come from the parent(s), and are inherent in the cells of the offspring.
If your father is born with a mutation and it's passed on to you, technically speaking it is not a mutation when describing the same DNA base(s) in your genome. It IS described as a mutation in HIS genome because neither of his parents had it. A mutation is simply a change of DNA. And DNA does change with each generation.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83793 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Oh wait!? Were those builders intellectually advanced and their tools also? WTF!?
so? was there a point there? was there a point to the whole post about an archeological site and what that has to do with evolution?

do try to have a point when you post, dear...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83794 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it does not need to directly connect the fossils. All the theory of evolution is required to do is make successful scientific predictions. And it did. Observed genetics matches the nested hierarchies observed in the fossil record. This is not necessary if evolution is incorrect.
Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.

Some of the things are in order...others are not.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83795 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I don't know where you get this idea that I am a creationist, but if that makes you feel all fuzzy, then have at it.
I don't see any "goal" in evolution. In fact, from what I see it is more of regression than progression.
Essentially all arguments against evolution stem from creationist sources, whether you are aware of this or not. 99% of anti-science anti-evolutionists tend to be creationists. The rest are scientific cranks (ranging from new-agers, alt-science to UFO nuts) or ego-driven nihilists. The particulars of the anti-science stance are not really important and it's only a minor amusement when wondering if a creationist is a young-Earther or old-Earther.

However the "devolution" idea ultimately comes from the creationist apologetics for "The Fall" in the Bible, and is really just an excuse for why creationists are unable to make any scientific predictions based on creationism. However since the human population is increasing and genetic variance along with it, that kinda flies in the face of the "devolution" idea on a genetic level. Genetic entropy only becomes a problem when sterility or lack of genetic variance is an issue - tends to affect smaller populations such as some big cat populations where inbreeding is a problem. I think I heard something recently about male sterility being a cause for concern in France though.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83796 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Atheist compositions!
Paul is not the founder of Christianity, but Jesus Christ is.
Christianity, the bible is growing and spreading in the east and far east.
I thought it was the Nicean Council using Paulanity as their guide.(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83797 Mar 29, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Irony!
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#83798 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.
Some of the things are in order...others are not.

Actually ,
the monkeys just sorta watched the apes build them :).
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83799 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> You are talking about a hominid line which is only "guessed" about at best, and 8 million years ago in that split-if it in fact even happened then. So far it is merely speculation.
Actually it was speculation based on the fossil record which was then verified by genetics, remember?

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83800 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
My, my, aren't YOU condescending?
Let's let those who are reading along decide for themselves which of us is making good solid points and which of us is posting arm-waving BS, OK?:)
Just telling it like I see it.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83801 Mar 29, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
So you understand that all the peripheral stuff about the Biblical story goes away?
There is no animals being imported from all over the world (Koala bears, Platypus's, anteaters, Panda bears, etc.) No Noah trying to build a boat that is impossible for him, or anybody, to build at the time....hell even now.
There is no Ark bouncing around on the waves for almost a year....no birds being thrown out of the Ark to check for dry land. Floods such as the big one that hit the Mesopotamian area in 2900 BC generally go away within days....weeks at most. Deserts tend to suck up flood water pretty quickly.
After the flood there was no need for Noah's sons and daughter-in-laws to split and go to the far 'corners' of the earth to re-establish civilization and establish the black race in Africa....because we know that the blacks were already there, and in fact we evolved from them.
Yeah, that flood really needs to go away, its a stupid story in light of what we know to be true today.
I'm glad to see you finally agree Charles. Welcome to the real world.
How did this real world came into form?
You don't know.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83802 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.
Some of the things are in order...others are not.
monkeys and apes did not build them, humans did. and yes, we can so go beyond that kind of precision...

my first instinct was correct. you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....none at all.

look...Bigfoot!
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83803 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I don't think there is a better alternative. I think that the cards are stacked to support the academic club attitude of "money" though.
Except you're forgetting that people with money don't like throwing away into a worthless bottomless pit. Hence if they gained no results they'd eventually stop. There's a reason why the military stopped funding research into "psychic powers". There is a reason why no-one uses "creation geology" in oil companies. There is a reason why evolution is used in medical research and agriculture. It's because science works.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83804 Mar 29, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
We're working up to it Charles. It's pretty involved.
The concept of faith you guys have been rejecting, has been applied here.
Good to see that.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#83805 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Uh HUH. And monkeys and apes built pyramids and colossal buildings all around the world using primitive tools that were totally incapable of doing the job with a precision we can still not match even with our best technology today.
Some of the things are in order...others are not.
Actually humans did that. We could match that precision same as they could. And we could do it much faster. The only difference is that economics is what prevents us from doing these things today. Oh, that and practicality.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83806 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What for?
Seriously.
For despite your objections, I'm sure that you are already aware that the scientific community has long accepted evolution as the prevailing theory of modern biology. Therefore you should expect to find quite a number of peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. And there are, literally hundreds of thousands of them, from thousands and thousands of biologists from all over the world. A quick search on PubMed alone comes up with 300,000 articles on the subject.
Despite this, you still don't accept evolution. So can you tell us why the heck would posting scientific research in support of evolution make a lick of difference to your opinions in the first place?
No. That is YOUR contention that I don't accept "evolution".
You seem to have this need to portray me as some religious creationist.
You are dead wrong.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83807 Mar 29, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then a DNA test cannot demonstrate that you are related to either of your parents?
Sure.

Can it prove I am related to Lucy?
Can it prove who and where people were before the last bottleneck in population?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83808 Mar 29, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
How error free I may or may not be has no bearing at all on the errors in the bible. You've admitted that the bible is in error when it claimed the flood was global. Can't back out of it now, Chuckles.
No Mikie, there was flood that is the major goal, and the bible said so. Period.

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