Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 201774 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83677 Mar 29, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the clear fossil record of beings moving from more ape-like to more human-like proves that...
Do show where and how those transitions are actuality.
You can not or you would be world renowned and instantly famous.
This "clear" record is anything but "clear".

That is where all the controversy is and has been for centuries.
Any real researcher or scientific researcher know this as common knowledge.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#83678 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Get real. You are deflecting in the absence of any connecting or verifying proof and you know it...you have little to nothing to proceed with.
You're a lame bullshit artist.

Our textbooks, museums and DNA labs are CHOCK FULL of evidence pointing to evolution, common descent, etc.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#83679 Mar 29, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the snowshoe hares around my place turn from brown to white as the season changes. when we have a late snow season we have all these white hares running around the woods looking really nervous!
Ya their half brown now.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#83680 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Get real. You are deflecting in the absence of any connecting or verifying proof and you know it...you have little to nothing to proceed with. You continually throw out hypothetical scenarios as examples of proof of evolution and are grasping at straws when it comes to actuality...or you would have already provided that very evidence that you spew rhetoric about but never seem to produce.
I bet you are tired!
Tired of being made a fool of.
The fact that you stoop to name calling in lieu of presenting any rational argument is example enough that you are an incompetent wannabe who is incapable of anything beyond "tard" or other grade school hominems...now THAT is rudeness(as you put it).
No, not only that you are using words you do not understand correctly.

And I don't name call. I use appropriate descriptive words.

Creatards are called creatards because of their actions, not because of their beliefs.

I am more than willing to help people out, but if they come on as rude ignorant bumpkins who have no idea how science is done or why it works then they get rudeness back tenfold.

So would you like to learn the scientific method, how it works, why it works, what is and is not evidence etc.?

It is clear right now that you are in no position to judge truth from lie. I will be running off soon, but this is not a task that can be accomplished in a few minutes anyway.

My offer to help is always genuine. When people play nice, I play nice, but lately I have had an overdose of creatards so my patience is a bit on the low side.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#83681 Mar 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya their half brown now.
That is due to bears coming out from hibernation. It is really not their fault, the white color confuses them.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83682 Mar 29, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is one thing that is sometimes considered as "proof" in science. That is concordance.
When several different disciplines all agree independently on a claim then it is pretty much deemed to be proven. We don't have evidence for evolution just in the fossil record. In biology there are countless phylogenical trees that all show evolution to be the answer. Evidence for evolution can be seen in the fossil record, in the laboratory, in the field, in your DNA. Every aspect of science agrees with evolution. None with creation.
This video explains it much better than I ever could:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
I have no doubt that evolution is a reality. I do have a problem with the chronological placement and resulting "story" of historical evolution concerning human existence as presented by anthropologists and historians....and the influences (terrestrial and extraterrestrial) upon that depiction...which is quite obviously flawed and unsubstantiated.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#83683 Mar 29, 2013
Langoliers, have you had a chance to figure out why humid air rises yet?

It is a simple science question.

I am sure that you are not too DENSE to figure it out.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83684 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Do show where and how those transitions are actuality.
You can not or you would be world renowned and instantly famous.
This "clear" record is anything but "clear".
That is where all the controversy is and has been for centuries.
Any real researcher or scientific researcher know this as common knowledge.
what transitions? a clear record of beings being more ape-like to being more human like. that IS the transition.

tough to deny verifiable, viewable, touchable facts like that, yet somehow you still seem to do it...

what do you call it when someone denies the reality in front of them?...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83685 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
THose who happened to be born with the genetic makeup for a longer neck would tend, as a group, to eat better, live longer, reproduce more and thus pass that setup of genes throughout the population eventually.
It has nothing to do with "mutative cellular action within spermiation or zygote." LOL
Then it would not have been transferred to the generations, so none would have ever grown larger length necks(which is a ludicrous example anyway).

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#83686 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> I have no doubt that evolution is a reality. I do have a problem with the chronological placement and resulting "story" of historical evolution concerning human existence as presented by anthropologists and historians....and the influences (terrestrial and extraterrestrial) upon that depiction...which is quite obviously flawed and unsubstantiated.
OK, I'll bite. How so?

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#83687 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>??? Answered well by others.

In my HYPOTHETICAL example (NOT meant to be a giraffe), from generation to generation as the drought continues, those animals with longer necks eat better, live longer, reproduce more compared to the stubby necks, and thus the gene for the longer neck spreads throughout the population.

Natural selection.
"The giraffe is an unusual animal that contains an interesting design mechanism. Did you know that a full grown giraffe's heart weighs over 24 pounds and pumps 16 gallons a minute? Because the giraffe's heart is much larger than his head, a series of special one-way, back-flow preventer valves are needed in the neck to regulate the flow of blood to the head, especially when the giraffe is bending down to get that much needed drink of water. Without these valves, the immense blood pressure coupled with gravity would make for one nasty headache and other such repercussions. Elastic blood vessels in the giraffe's head allow harboring of enough blood to prevent the giraffe from passing out when bent in this position.

The creationist points out that this intricate design mechanism is, you guessed it, a design! The evolutionist will have you believe that this system evolved with time, that eventually a giraffe mutated merrily along until the valves properly formed in the neck and the elastic blood vessels sufficiently formed in the head (along with other details left out here).

If evolution is true, the struggle for the Giraffe to survive must have been one ugly sight!

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83688 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Just blind luck and good fortune for the long necks.
Imagine a rabbit in the Arctic snows who is born with a mutation for black fur. How long do you think that particular animal will live and escape all the various predators?
Ever notice that virtually ALL the species that live on or above the ice in the polar regions have WHITE fur or WHITE feathers, etc.?
Did that come about because Jesus just happens to like WHITE?
Now, you have finally made a reasonable case. It is not a case of genetic mutation...it IS a case of the environment causing all except the very lightest of fur in the gene pool to be reduced toward extinction of the variant "darker" shades.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83689 Mar 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"The giraffe is an unusual animal that contains an interesting design mechanism. Did you know that a full grown giraffe's heart weighs over 24 pounds and pumps 16 gallons a minute? Because the giraffe's heart is much larger than his head, a series of special one-way, back-flow preventer valves are needed in the neck to regulate the flow of blood to the head, especially when the giraffe is bending down to get that much needed drink of water. Without these valves, the immense blood pressure coupled with gravity would make for one nasty headache and other such repercussions. Elastic blood vessels in the giraffe's head allow harboring of enough blood to prevent the giraffe from passing out when bent in this position.
The creationist points out that this intricate design mechanism is, you guessed it, a design! The evolutionist will have you believe that this system evolved with time, that eventually a giraffe mutated merrily along until the valves properly formed in the neck and the elastic blood vessels sufficiently formed in the head (along with other details left out here).
If evolution is true, the struggle for the Giraffe to survive must have been one ugly sight!
still need that very first teensy weensy shred of evidence for your creator or designer for your guess to be even considered...

and then there is all the evidence for evolution...

hmmmm...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83690 Mar 29, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text> Now, you have finally made a reasonable case. It is not a case of genetic mutation...it IS a case of the environment causing all except the very lightest of fur in the gene pool to be reduced toward extinction of the variant "darker" shades.
and the hares and other animals that change their fur color????

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#83691 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>??? Answered well by others.

In my HYPOTHETICAL example (NOT meant to be a giraffe), from generation to generation as the drought continues, those animals with longer necks eat better, live longer, reproduce more compared to the stubby necks, and thus the gene for the longer neck spreads throughout the population.

Natural selection.
"In their article, "Winning by a Neck," zoologists Robert Simmons (Uppsala University) and Lue Scheepers (Ministry of Environment, Namibia) agree with Gould that the standard account "may be no more than a tall story". According to the competition hypothesis, giraffes use their long necks to advantage during dry seasons, when food is scarce; but, in fact, the opposite is observed in the field. "In the Serengeti," Simmons and Scheepers note, "giraffe spend almost all of the dry season feeding from low Grewia bushes, while only in the wet season do they turn to tall Acacia tortillis trees, when new leaves are ...plentiful ...and no competition is expected. This behavior is contrary to the prediction that giraffe should use their feeding height to advantage at times of food scarcity". Moreover, they report, "females spend over 50% of their time feeding with their necks horizontal [a behavior so common it is used to determine the sex of animals at a distance]" and "both sexes feed faster and most often with their necks bent". These observations, they conclude, suggest "that long necks did not evolve specifically for feeding at higher levels." (from http://www.arn.org/ docs/odesign/ od181/ls181.htm)

Where are the giraffe NECK evolution fossils ?
Answer: NO one has seen them !"

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#83692 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>??? Answered well by others.

In my HYPOTHETICAL example (NOT meant to be a giraffe), from generation to generation as the drought continues, those animals with longer necks eat better, live longer, reproduce more compared to the stubby necks, and thus the gene for the longer neck spreads throughout the population.

Natural selection.
"The textbooks still say that the giraffe got his long neck because all the food had run out and he was trying to eat up there in the trees. And I am saying, "Okay, good, but what about Mrs. Giraffe? She is two feet shorter. What about baby giraffe? If all the food is gone and he's got to stretch up there to eat out of the top of the tree, what is baby giraffe going to eat after they are weaned from their mama?" It doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe Millions of years between meals?!

What we have here is irreducible complexity. It's like when we reduce fractions down and you can't reduce them down anymore. Complexity requires all the different parts that are needed working together perfectly, so they are irreducible. You can't take them down anymore. They need all these parts, and all the parts have to be fully functional. You can't have a partially formed heart, or a partially formed valve, or a partially formed sponge. They have to all be there. They have to all be fully functional, or you don't have a giraffe."

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83693 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Orthologous Endogenous Retroviruses (ERFVs) are considered slam-the-door "proof" of homo sapiens' decent from a common ancestor in the ape family.
Note that "proof" is for mathematics and alcohol. Nothing is ever officially "proven" in science (although the word is sometimes thrown around casually, usually by lay people). Evidence is gathered for a particular detailed explanation or "theory" and that theory stands as "what science knows" unless and until it is DISproven.
What ? 7% of maybe 42 efrv's...and even that "may" be significant...is NOT [slam the door] evidence of anything except wishful thinking, and really stretching the "gumby" guy.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83694 Mar 29, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"The textbooks still say that the giraffe got his long neck because all the food had run out and he was trying to eat up there in the trees. And I am saying, "Okay, good, but what about Mrs. Giraffe? She is two feet shorter. What about baby giraffe? If all the food is gone and he's got to stretch up there to eat out of the top of the tree, what is baby giraffe going to eat after they are weaned from their mama?" It doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe Millions of years between meals?!
What we have here is irreducible complexity. It's like when we reduce fractions down and you can't reduce them down anymore. Complexity requires all the different parts that are needed working together perfectly, so they are irreducible. You can't take them down anymore. They need all these parts, and all the parts have to be fully functional. You can't have a partially formed heart, or a partially formed valve, or a partially formed sponge. They have to all be there. They have to all be fully functional, or you don't have a giraffe."
ummm...because they feed at all levels...

not a rocket scientist, are you?

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#83695 Mar 29, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>That is due to bears coming out from hibernation. It is really not their fault, the white color confuses them.
It's due to them changing their coat from winter to summer. White to brown.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Level 1

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#83696 Mar 29, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Answered earlier.
I gave a HYPOTHETICAL example of how evolution works SOMETIMES, i.e. a species trapped by nature in some sort of a situation of reproductive isolation.
I certainly did not mean or imply that that is the ONLY way evolution can work.
And I gave example that that actually did happen globally and still resulted in no problem in species reproduction when brought together from any one of the given points of those separations for thousands of years...and they were ALL in "stress" individually and globally to near extinction at times.

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