Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82989 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
I think God is always at work and don't think we are semi-dead or lifeless when asleep. Many REM studies reflect high levels of brain activity.
That is your own ideas of the picture.
Dreams are like half death, why? Because actually is un aware of his surrounding.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#82990 Mar 26, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Kindly take a look back to page 3930 post 82869 at what Gillette say to me, I guess to you and Gillette the post was a non- name calling, loving,non judgemental post. I know the picture of both of you are beside the word double standard in the dictionary.Your usual mantra of "you must hate me if you disagree with me",please act your age not your shoe size.
We don't have a false god that says "judge lest not you be judged".

And that is actually a cautionary statement. It is good advice more than it is a commandment.

Yes, we are all guilty of name calling. When it is between creationists and me, I usually let the creationist throw the first stone. Then I don't feel too guilty when I throw a volley back at them.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82991 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Alright, let's pretend your god is real and that it is somehow telling these people all about dreams, then they're correct, or your god is a liar. Well, they have found there is nothing "magical" about dreams at all.
You have no idea of what you are talking about.
God is not a mortal, but the ever living immortal God.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82992 Mar 26, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Kindly take a look back to page 3930 post 82869 at what Gillette say to me, I guess to you and Gillette the post was a non- name calling, loving,non judgemental post. I know the picture of both of you are beside the word double standard in the dictionary.Your usual mantra of "you must hate me if you disagree with me",please act your age not your shoe size.
What does that have to do with patriot casting false accusations at people?

do try to keep up, dear...

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82993 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>That is your own ideas of the picture.
Dreams are like half death, why? Because actually is un aware of his surrounding.
That makes no sense.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82994 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> That is your own ideas of the picture.
Dreams are like half death, why? Because actually is un aware of his surrounding.
Not always...
and in no way at all is it like a half death. not in any way. not at all.

you are ten feet over your head...

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82995 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course God, for lack of a better word, exists. We just don't know as what. Those who claim they do are under the thrall of religion not faith.
You are indeed, a nut.
All religions are based on faith.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#82996 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> That is your own ideas of the picture.
Dreams are like half death, why? Because actually is un aware of his surrounding.
Wow.

Dreams are nothing more than the manifestations of an ACTIVE, HEALTHY -- yet unconscious mind.

Your assertion that sleep is 'half-dead' is absurd.

Unconscious, yes.'Half-dead'? Not in the least.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82997 Mar 26, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Please re-read my post –
Here, let me requote my words so it’s no so confusing for you
“…you have a sad personality defect”…
Irony.

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82998 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>You are indeed, a nut.
All religions are based on faith.
No. Religions are based on politics.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82999 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Religions are based on politics.
to adegree, i guess, i would have said they are based on lies, as so far oll of the religious cults on this planet are...

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#83000 Mar 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>to adegree, i guess, i would have said they are based on lies, as so far oll of the religious cults on this planet are...
That works too I guess... Politics, lies, same thing...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83001 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
That works too I guess... Politics, lies, same thing...
Idk...i've been involved in politics most of my life (atarted asa poli-sci major at university..)

i have worked with many politicians very closely and they are not all liars nor is all politics based on lies.

get involved and do your part to stop any lies yoyu see or feel are there...

civic duty is fun!

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#83002 Mar 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Idk...i've been involved in politics most of my life (atarted asa poli-sci major at university..)

i have worked with many politicians very closely and they are not all liars nor is all politics based on lies.

get involved and do your part to stop any lies yoyu see or feel are there...

civic duty is fun!
Lol... Yeah, that's true :)
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#83003 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I will tell you ICR's work by Steve Austin is right on here, Steve has his PhD from Penn State on the subject. One should be careful of quoting current dogma on these matters unless they are your day job or you have worked the rocks yourself. It all fits for me.
It "fits for you" solely because of your a priori fundamentalist Christian Bible beliefs which require the acceptance of the Genesis creation myth as literal, factual history (otherwise, in your mind, the entire edifice of Fall/Redemption theology immediately collapses and there would be no need to "believe in Jesus" and no need to be "saved.")

What do the rest of your colleagues make of these supposed anomalies in coal formation? Do they all express shock and the reversion of their beliefs into Young Earth?

Let me ask you something I have repeatedly asked of Christian YECs here on TOPIX and never gotten a response. It seems like a reasonable question to me:

Can you give us the name of one qualified working PhD biologist or geologist who is NOT a Christian and NOT religious, but yet who thinks the world is only 6000 years old and humanity sprang from two first humans 6000 years ago BASED SOLELY ON THE EVIDENCE?

This should be easy for you since you seem connected to the YEC websites and knowledge base and if such a person exists, their name would likely be bandied about very freely, I would think.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#83004 Mar 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
It "fits for you" solely because of your a priori fundamentalist Christian Bible beliefs which require the acceptance of the Genesis creation myth as literal, factual history (otherwise, in your mind, the entire edifice of Fall/Redemption theology immediately collapses and there would be no need to "believe in Jesus" and no need to be "saved.")
What do the rest of your colleagues make of these supposed anomalies in coal formation? Do they all express shock and the reversion of their beliefs into Young Earth?
Let me ask you something I have repeatedly asked of Christian YECs here on TOPIX and never gotten a response. It seems like a reasonable question to me:
Can you give us the name of one qualified working PhD biologist or geologist who is NOT a Christian and NOT religious, but yet who thinks the world is only 6000 years old and humanity sprang from two first humans 6000 years ago BASED SOLELY ON THE EVIDENCE?
This should be easy for you since you seem connected to the YEC websites and knowledge base and if such a person exists, their name would likely be bandied about very freely, I would think.
mark is sure sounding like another of langoliers sock puppets, isn't he?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#83005 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Religions are based on politics.
Leave politics for Government.
It is the Government that have one or more romance with Religions in order to secure their votes.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#83006 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The study maybe guessing about perceived things that supposedly happened in the past, most just reverberate the dogma and make it happen a long time back, a nice story, but that doesn't fly with me.
No, because your a priori Bible beliefs won't let it. That's not doing science, but rather Christian apologetics.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
It starts in the cell and ends there.
I suspect this is because you KNOW that the evolution of the cell is still a bit hazy compared to the rock-solid knowledge we have about the tree of life, the fossil record and the DNA genome, all of which point strongly to evolution.

Rather than try to topple all of that -- which you cannot -- you would rather try to spin out arguments from incredulity about the cell and how it first came about. It's a standard, well-worn Creationist/ID tactic.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
If mutations work positive change then it should have been replicated in the lab log ago.
Lensky.

The evolution of the ability of bacterial species to metabolize citrates when citrates were introduced into the environment. The ability to EAT and get nourishment to stay alive would seem to be a "positive change."
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
This talk of all this data self-writing via mindless self-directed upward change in these super-complex organisms is flatly absurd and has no basis in common experience or reason.
Descent with modification by mutations, genetic drift and sexual recombination of genes PLUS the filtering action of natural selection. Those are the mechanisms.

It appears to be mindless, it is NOT self-directed or directed in any way except by natural selection, and "upward" is a value judgement you are adding after the fact.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The assertion that DNA or mtDNA is not analogous to code is a lie.
It may be ROUGLY analogous to a code in some ways, but NOT in other, important ways. Like most devious, agenda-driven Christians, you define "code" here in a way that serves your need to make DNA seem like a conscious communication.

It isn't. It's a bunch of admittedly complicated CHEMICAL REACTIONS.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The cell is a super-miniature, ultra-complex molecular chemical machine, needs fuel, has motion and unlike the 747 you mentioned, can repair and replicate itself!
Yes, the cell is amazing! We agree!

That doesn't mean it was consciously created by your Jesus. For that, you have no evidence and nothing, really, but self-serving, vague arm-waving arguments from incredulity. Plus a NEED for it to be true in order to protect your religious beliefs from the harsh light of reality.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you are saying is that the bio-machine is more complex than any of man's machines, yet is formed by accident without intelligence!
Straw man argument. The laws of chemistry are not accidental.
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
One in experience is obvious: intelligence operating on matter to make something,
You have demonstrated this in things we KNOW humans produce: watches, 747s and computer codes. You have YET to demonstrate it in biological organisms. You just throw up your hands and assert it and expect us to make that leap with you. Not how science works, is it?
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
the other in the evolutionary paradigm is not obvious in experience nor operationally: mindless, self-directed and accidental in nature but more complex than anything man can conceive or create in reality!
It can't be "self-directed" if it's "mindless," can it? Hadn't you better get your story straight? LOL

Nether the laws of chemistry nor natural selection are "accidental" in any real sense, so once again, you post the standard Christian straw man argument.
Mark

United States

#83008 Mar 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
All evolution needs is life. We have life. Life evolves. Facts. Observed. Repeatable. Testable. Just because you are ignorant of reality doesn't make science wrong.
<quoted text>
accepts evolution. I told you ages ago you're out of date and lying.
<quoted text>
Also answered ages ago. Bilateral symmetry. Just because you don't understand science doesn't mean it's wrong.
<quoted text>
You're lying and saying it's a big conspiracy. Fact is funding would be cut if evolution didn't work.
<quoted text>
It was.
<quoted text>
False.
<quoted text>
Then you should be the first man in history to tell us all what the "code" is and the mechanisms responsible for it.
You won't.(shrug)
You may want to read Denton and AE Wilder-Smith to bring you up to speed on your question. High schooler's are shown blobs and lighting striking a pond of chemicals, that was supposedly to have kick started all of this mindless complexity. Backed by the media, Nat'l Geo, Sagan etc. and ID being mocked at every level they have no chance to think reasonably, they have been brainwashed. In my view only a higher intelligence acting on chemicals offers a reasonable solution to the origin and complexity of life.

I have friends that have views different than mine, do I think of them as foolish?, no. They have as much to offer in society and their families as any of us on my side. Opposing viewpoints are healthy for us all, it makes us think, research and challenge our thinking. That's not wrong. I know a Russian that I saw every weekend all winter for years, I would say to him "(name), look, you always want to talk about religion and politics with me, we have to see each other weekly, I like you and can deal with it, are you good with this?", he would say sure. He had a lot of jokes about sex, one day I said to him "(blank),do you realize that if women had the same intense sex drive functions as men there would be no such thing as marriage, couples would be running off anywhere @ anytime and marriage would be pointless??" This got him thinking, how did sex evolve into to that only in humans? We are different than animals. He was eating an orange one day and I said, "look at that thing, the color and how each slice is a perfect bite". Later he became a believer in God. His wife is Jewish, both are highly educated professors. They had two boys and always wanted a girl. After that they soon had a girl, the happiest couple I know.
CBOW

Dover, PA

#83009 Mar 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, he said he didn't cancel them, just that there would now be two seperate ways to follow this multi-faced god...sheesh, learn your bible...
regardless, why would a real god EVER condone slavery?
face it, your man-made cult is a myth...
Bull woody. The old testament was a trial set up for the children of Abraham. God realized that the chosen people, the Hebrews couldn't follow the laws set forth. So He sent His only begotten Son so that Jews and Gentiles alike would have a chance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. All the burnt offerings and ceremonies couldn't save the chosen ones. God realized that humanity is weak and unable to save themselves. Thank You Jesus for your sacrifice!!! YOU woody are the one who really doesn't understand the Word. You are so blinded by your hatred for all things of God that you miss the very Message It's trying to deliver. Pity.

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