Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82951 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
I think God is always at work and don't think we are semi-dead or lifeless when asleep. Many REM studies reflect high levels of brain activity.
During REM specifically, very high, many times even higher than typical for that person actually.

During this time there are several events taking place that require the full potential of the brain itself. The first is pretty mundane but vital, the brain is organizing recuperation, and the body does the vast majority of it's healing at this time as well. Ever notice how you never actually see any wound heal, like as in see the last moments when the skin mends?

The other part is where the dreams themselves come from. The brain is "compiling" the memories it contains, compressing bits and discarding other bits, since the access to the sensory neurons is random at this state, the brain mixes up the sensory input with the memories. It's much the same effect as a hallucination but a lot lighter and looser. It's the most fascinating part of the life cycle of brains that it has captured the attention of anyone who delves into it. The brain's memory storage is limited, very limited, and since we are not well adapted to living more than 30 years it has to compile even more than it once did. This is why we often get de ja vu or forget why we walked into a room, if the event or thought is similar to one that's already stored, the brain forgets the new one and replays the old one to help conserve memory space. You can't grow new neurons, so it's vital. It's also why if we don't stimulate the brain enough with new things the older we get, the more we forget. Those who suffer insomnia will often forget things very easily if they do not remain highly active mentally, because until you enter REM the real compression cannot take place, so the brain just starts discarding what it thinks is not important.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82952 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Who is preparing the said person? GOD
What about future dreams, that may not happen now but in the nearest future?
Alright, let's pretend your god is real and that it is somehow telling these people all about dreams, then they're correct, or your god is a liar. Well, they have found there is nothing "magical" about dreams at all.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82953 Mar 26, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know that some or most dreams come true. If something good happens you can always go back and say you had a dream about it happening, but that isn't the same thing. I had a dream that you would stop going on about the English owning the English language and that hasn't come true. How would you determine if some or all dreams come true? If you figure that out, let me know. I have been having this dream and I would love it to come true.
How would you ever know? What if you were psychotic and having psychotic dreams that God was communicating with you when in fact God is not. What are the other sources of dreams besides communication from God? Why would God choose such a vacuous and easily misinterpreted form of communication as sending messages in dreams? What are the criteria that one needs to use to determine a regular dream from a supernatural dream postcard from God? How can you tell if someone had a dream text from God or if they are making it up?
Back to that dream I am having. If I have it three times in a row, will it come true? What if the person I am dreaming about is wearing something different ever time I dream about her? Will that nullify the dream?
I think dreams are interesting. They reflect the mood, imagination, personality, stress level and state of mind of the dreamer, but I don't put much stock in them as a medium for communication with God or anyone else. If I am wrong, I would hate to see the AT&T bill.
Lol
Anything you thought of before going to bed, can never give you a fulfilled dream(s) that will manifest in the future. Food for thought.
Mark

United States

#82954 Mar 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea why, or even if Johansson or any other reputable scientists would want to be even SEEN in a fundie Christian church with a bunch of hack creationist liars piling on to him, doing the Gish Gallop at full speed.
I know that _I_ certainly would have better things than to give "you guys" an ounce of credibility by even acknowledging your existence, much less actually debating you.
<quoted text>
The DETAILS of the human evolutionary path (and ALL of evolution) change gradually as new knowledge becomes available. And with new technology and the Internet, knowledge is coming fast and furious now,
Welcome to the world of science. Must be a scary thing to fundamentalist Christians who absolutely depend on there being 3 or 4 simple truths they can hang unto for dear life in a fast-paced, "demon-infested" world.
But there is absolutely NO CONTROVERSY in science that evolution in general happened and continues to happen, and also that modern homo-sapiens evolved gradually out of earlier proto-human species.
And sorry, Bible-lovers, but everything in modern-day science points to the fact that there were never any two "first humans" whether named Adam and Eve or anything else -- nor could there have ever been, with one species population gradually evolving into the next one.
The DNA evidence alone demolishes this Bible myth.
You need a mechanism that makes sense is repeatable and must be observed working in the cell. Piles of evo based studies, articles and illustrations don't make the cell capable of positive self-change to create chemical to man evolution, period. Denton fixed it, non-related genes controlling the development of parallel appendages and organs! In other words, the genes must be simultaneously altered in exactly the same manner at exactly the same time for the creature to be functional and live. And not just one pair of genes, all the other one's related to the total function of the target appendages!

Evolution doesn't' have any mechanism in the cell that works for it, and it must have one to be valid. As an engineer, all we do is design to make things work to get paid. In theoretical evolutionary science, most article's must mention evo at least in the subtitle to get published. The study maybe guessing about perceived things that supposedly happened in the past, most just reverberate the dogma and make it happen a long time back, a nice story, but that doesn't fly with me. It starts in the cell and ends there. I have seen contra-human evolution findings in these articles: Khaitvich 2005. Science, Zeng, 2012. American Journal of Human Genetics , Martin, 2011. Genome Research.
If mutations work positive change then it should have been replicated in the lab log ago. In the study of fruit fly generations,(where thousands of them were exposed to every conceivable external variable) all they generally got was degeneration, not regeneration, just as the operating mechanism of the cell demands!
This talk of all this data self-writing via mindless self-directed upward change in these super-complex organisms is flatly absurd and has no basis in common experience or reason. The assertion that DNA or mtDNA is not analogous to code is a lie. The cell is a super-miniature, ultra-complex molecular chemical machine, needs fuel, has motion and unlike the 747 you mentioned, can repair and replicate itself! So what you are saying is that the bio-machine is more complex than any of man's machines, yet is formed by accident without intelligence!
One in experience is obvious: intelligence operating on matter to make something, the other in the evolutionary paradigm is not obvious in experience nor operationally: mindless, self-directed and accidental in nature but more complex than anything man can conceive or create in reality! Where is the reason and logic here? So please, I have no pseudoscience motive as you assert, you have your belief, I will have mine.

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82955 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
During REM specifically, very high, many times even higher than typical for that person actually.
During this time there are several events taking place that require the full potential of the brain itself. The first is pretty mundane but vital, the brain is organizing recuperation, and the body does the vast majority of it's healing at this time as well. Ever notice how you never actually see any wound heal, like as in see the last moments when the skin mends?
The other part is where the dreams themselves come from. The brain is "compiling" the memories it contains, compressing bits and discarding other bits, since the access to the sensory neurons is random at this state, the brain mixes up the sensory input with the memories. It's much the same effect as a hallucination but a lot lighter and looser. It's the most fascinating part of the life cycle of brains that it has captured the attention of anyone who delves into it. The brain's memory storage is limited, very limited, and since we are not well adapted to living more than 30 years it has to compile even more than it once did. This is why we often get de ja vu or forget why we walked into a room, if the event or thought is similar to one that's already stored, the brain forgets the new one and replays the old one to help conserve memory space. You can't grow new neurons, so it's vital. It's also why if we don't stimulate the brain enough with new things the older we get, the more we forget. Those who suffer insomnia will often forget things very easily if they do not remain highly active mentally, because until you enter REM the real compression cannot take place, so the brain just starts discarding what it thinks is not important.
Yep. Fascinating stuff. I was part of a sleep study when I was 18 as I used to sleep walk and hurt myself when having nightmares. Then i read a whole heap of books on it but don't think I could write it all here like you have. LOL

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82956 Mar 26, 2013
Samurai jack wrote:
<quoted text> for the sake of this explanation we have to assume without raising our fingure all elements decorated in the periodic tables were in existence...and these all may had taken shape of a solid spherical point. and also niether there was gravity nor time..this big bang theory sounds like a coined story based on logics...
Logical sort of in your imagination.
Science has no valid answer concerning that, to date.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82957 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Lol
Anything you thought of before going to bed, can never give you a fulfilled dream(s) that will manifest in the future. Food for thought.
Lucid dreaming is a real thing, and many people practice it all the time.

Personally, I think they're nuts, I prefer the random story being told to help spark the creative processes, guiding them is too much control.

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82958 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Alright, let's pretend your god is real and that it is somehow telling these people all about dreams, then they're correct, or your god is a liar. Well, they have found there is nothing "magical" about dreams at all.
This magical dream stuff comes from native beliefs in the spirit world communicating with us in our sleep, very little to do with God or Science. Unless one actually studies or looks into dream studies, they don't know any better. Even Hypnotism is different. LOL

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82959 Mar 26, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Who among us can claim with a straight face to know the ways of God. Are you moving from presumptive supplicant to deity status Charles?
No. But i believe he exist unlike him.
Do you have a problem with that, Dan?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82960 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. Fascinating stuff. I was part of a sleep study when I was 18 as I used to sleep walk and hurt myself when having nightmares. Then i read a whole heap of books on it but don't think I could write it all here like you have. LOL
Ah yes, I am still a sleep walker myself, not very often anymore. I use to act out my dreams. To me even a nightmare is a dream, it's still a story, and still an interesting adventure even if there are monsters. I use to write them down as fictional short stories, even handed some in for school credit. I am considering doing that again, but this time actually publishing them.
Mark

United States

#82961 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but SZ has demonstrated his knowledge, you are just making excuses for being wrong. That makes SZ inherently more accurate than you.
The term is lost? Wiki had it perfectly right, with a pic of the same spot where I first saw it. Not very lost is it! Deny such a small thing as the "Great Unconformity"?, the largesrt single catastrophic formation on the planet?

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82962 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah yes, I am still a sleep walker myself, not very often anymore. I use to act out my dreams. To me even a nightmare is a dream, it's still a story, and still an interesting adventure even if there are monsters. I use to write them down as fictional short stories, even handed some in for school credit. I am considering doing that again, but this time actually publishing them.
That would be cool. I can never remember much about mine.

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82963 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> No. But i believe he exist unlike him.
Do you have a problem with that, Dan?
Of course God, for lack of a better word, exists. We just don't know as what. Those who claim they do are under the thrall of religion not faith.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82964 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The term is lost? Wiki had it perfectly right, with a pic of the same spot where I first saw it. Not very lost is it! Deny such a small thing as the "Great Unconformity"?, the largesrt single catastrophic formation on the planet?
You don't know much about floods, do you? You should learn about more than just one thing, you might actually ... learn something. But as I said, SZ has proven to be consistently educated and accurate, and all I saw from you were excuses for being wrong, and not very convincing ones at that. Even if SZ is incorrect on this one point, I will still take his word over yours.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82965 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course God, for lack of a better word, exists. We just don't know as what. Those who claim they do are under the thrall of religion not faith.
I must beg to differ on your wording here. They are being manipulated by fear, specifically the fear of not knowing or admitting to not knowing, thus they must claim to know. Also, those who admit they don't know are just honest. ;) Honesty is a far more endearing trait than faith.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82966 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
You need a mechanism that makes sense is repeatable and must be observed working in the cell. Piles of evo based studies, articles and illustrations don't make the cell capable of positive self-change to create chemical to man evolution, period. Denton fixed it, non-related genes controlling the development of parallel appendages and organs! In other words, the genes must be simultaneously altered in exactly the same manner at exactly the same time for the creature to be functional and live. And not just one pair of genes, all the other one's related to the total function of the target appendages!
Evolution doesn't' have any mechanism in the cell that works for it, and it must have one to be valid. As an engineer, all we do is design to make things work to get paid. In theoretical evolutionary science, most article's must mention evo at least in the subtitle to get published. The study maybe guessing about perceived things that supposedly happened in the past, most just reverberate the dogma and make it happen a long time back, a nice story, but that doesn't fly with me. It starts in the cell and ends there. I have seen contra-human evolution findings in these articles: Khaitvich 2005. Science, Zeng, 2012. American Journal of Human Genetics , Martin, 2011. Genome Research.
If mutations work positive change then it should have been replicated in the lab log ago. In the study of fruit fly generations,(where thousands of them were exposed to every conceivable external variable) all they generally got was degeneration, not regeneration, just as the operating mechanism of the cell demands!
This talk of all this data self-writing via mindless self-directed upward change in these super-complex organisms is flatly absurd and has no basis in common experience or reason. The assertion that DNA or mtDNA is not analogous to code is a lie. The cell is a super-miniature, ultra-complex molecular chemical machine, needs fuel, has motion and unlike the 747 you mentioned, can repair and replicate itself! So what you are saying is that the bio-machine is more complex than any of man's machines, yet is formed by accident without intelligence!
One in experience is obvious: intelligence operating on matter to make something, the other in the evolutionary paradigm is not obvious in experience nor operationally: mindless, self-directed and accidental in nature but more complex than anything man can conceive or create in reality! Where is the reason and logic here? So please, I have no pseudoscience motive as you assert, you have your belief, I will have mine.
If what you said was true, then all offspring would look just like the parents, everything would be a clone. The DNA copy mechanism itself is evolution, all mutation is evolution, and any imperfection in the copy is a mutation, even if that imperfection manages to actually prove beneficial.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82967 Mar 26, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>It was believers in creation who began the campaign against slavery in America.
" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism&quo... ;
I don't see atheists' objections recorded there. They must have wanted to keep a low profile.
Probably.(shrug) They tended to back in those days. It's also worth keeping in mind that those who fought abolition used the Bible as justification. In fact in the Carribean they were toying with the idea of seceeding from the Brits and joining the US.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82968 Mar 26, 2013
Gael wrote:
I have concluded after reading all these arguments that it's a lot less taxing to just believe that God did it.
Indeed.

The problem is when those who think like that attempt to replace education with that very same lack of thinking.

“The who whating how...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#82969 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I must beg to differ on your wording here. They are being manipulated by fear, specifically the fear of not knowing or admitting to not knowing, thus they must claim to know. Also, those who admit they don't know are just honest. ;) Honesty is a far more endearing trait than faith.
LOL... yes, I won't POE here. Thus,'thrall' of religion, any religion uses 'magic' or Psychological trickery as a form of control. I have faith in something I can't even put into words and I'm honest about the fact that I don't know. No one knows. Aliens? The Universal string that holds all things together? A giant bearded man? A light? Alanis Morriset? We don't know. To say a Creative force does not exist or say that it does, well, it's foolish :)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82970 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> English belongs to the English, yes or no?
Did they colonised any colonies?
Did they offer free, expensive or affordable education?
Just answer the questions.
There we go! Barking on command. Good doggie!

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