Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218748 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82143 Mar 22, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Have you ever considered the water was beneath the crust in the first place and it came when the fountains of the deep were broken?
It is only a liar that can deny that/ this.
God bless!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#82144 Mar 22, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you my brother. Those who hunger and thirst for the true and right things in this life and the one to come, will find what they are looking for in our lord.
By his GRACE, AMEN!!!
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#82145 Mar 22, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of the multi-gigabit code, smaller than any manmade storage device, are you speaking of as evidence against "Bible Myth? DNA coding is very sophisticated and requires a lauguage convention.
DNA : When Is A Code Not A Code ?
http://www.science20.com/chatter_box/dna_when...

Excerpt:

A code is a symbol which stands in place of a symbol. The four letters CAGT most definitely form a code, being symbols for the names of the four major components of DNA. The names guanine, adenine, thymine and cytosine are not codes: they are primary symbols. Primary symbols stand for real things and not for symbols. The real physical entities guanine, adenine, thymine and cytosine are not codes. If anyone wants to call them codes, let them point to the symbols which might be replaced by these 'codes'.

A computer code is a set of numerical values sufficient and necessary to the production of an end state from an initial state.

DNA is necessary but not sufficient to the production of an end state from an initial state.

To claim that computer code and DNA are both codes is an abuse of the power of words. It is decidedly not scientific.

end quote
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#82146 Mar 22, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
DNA coding is very sophisticated...requires a lauguage convention.
DNA is Not a Code
http://livinglifewithoutanet.wordpress.com/20...

Excerpts:

This argument comes down to using words improperly. A code, by the strictest definition, is in fact something designed by intelligent beings. It is a system of symbols that either arbitrarily or by some system represent various things. The alphabet I’m using to write this blog is a code. There’s nothing about the individual letters that have any inherent meaning. They don’t do anything in and of themselves. By agreement between multiple humans, we have a legend, or a key, which most of us learned in grammar school. By using this legend, we can look at anything in the code “English” and through substitution, come to the knowledge of the concepts sybolized by the various letters.

This is the traditional idea of a code, and it is what theists think they mean when they argue that DNA is a code. The thing is, DNA is not that kind of a code. DNA is a a polymer, which is composed of individual chemical units called nucleotides. There are four types of these nucleotides, and we humans have decided to call them adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine. These names are not entirely arbitrary, but in the end, there’s nothing magical about them. We could call them Blob, Clob, Dob, and Emu, and they’d still be the same. Our language — the code we humans use to communicate — is just a way for us to give each other information and keep things separate in our own minds.

The nucleotides in DNA are often said to be the “blueprints” or “code” which define a sequence of messenger RNA which in turn defines at least one protein. In a sense, these proteins are the building blocks of life, and DNA is the “code” which determines the qualities of the life that will be built.

The problem with the theist argument, however, is that the DNA code is not arbitrary, and it does not rely at all on the agreement of sentient beings. In fact, it is exactly the same in nature as any other dynamic chemical process. When you see an explosion on TV, you’re watching a chemical reaction that was controlled by the same kind of “code.” Crystals grow based on such a code. Stars give off light and energy from the same kind of code.

All DNA is, to the chagrin of creationists, is a very, very complicated organic molecule that can react in a staggeringly large number of ways with other organic molecules.
..........

So, here is the ultimate problem with this particular theist argument. DNA is not an arbitrary set of symbols that “stand for” something else that will be interpreted through some kind of a legend. It is a set of chemicals which are nonthinking, and have no choice but to do what they do, in the same way that a crystal has no choice but to grow when in the presence of the appropriate aqueous solution.

DNA is not a “code” in the normal sense of the word. We call it a code because doing so gives us an easy way to think of the process by which a strand of DNA is responsible for the building of a living thing.

That’s it. When we look at a particular sequence of nucleotides, we can recognize that the chemical reaction they facilitate will produce a certain protein. This is no different from looking at a few grams of sodium or potassium and recognizing that in the presence of water, they will react in very specific ways to produce a violent exothermic reaction. If DNA is a code, then so is every other molecule in the universe. It’s just the consistency of the laws of nature. This, in the presence of that, will do the other.

So no, DNA is not a code. It is analogous to a code in enough ways that it makes sense for us to refer to things like the “genetic code,” but in the end, we’re just not talking about the kind of code that would make the theist argument valid. Sorry, theists, but you fail on this one, too.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#82147 Mar 22, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Have you ever considered the water was beneath the crust in the first place and it came when the fountains of the deep were broken?
Yes I have considered it, as has many other people including scientist. The fact is that so much water has never existed on earth, anywhere, ever

May I repeat –

That would take about 4,500,000,000 cubic kilometres, that’s about 270 times more water than is on earth

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#82148 Mar 22, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> It is only a liar that can deny that/ this.
God bless!
Are you, a known and rampant liar accusing me of lighting because the facts I am specifying don’t mesh with your wet dreams of magic?

We know you are good at accusing people of all sorts on heinous behaviour (including child murder) when it suits you, that of course does not make it true it just means that you have a sad personality defect

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#82149 Mar 22, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
There were techs out at the site working on it. The approach comes in at Cross Sound, so they turned to early when the needles started moving, There was a big SE storm so before they cross checked their yaw on the ADI's, bam. We were getting knocked around alot. I was a teen ager. As Jnu was the capitol, many legislatures from the interior put their kids on the flight, because it was the day before school started. FAA was covering it up.
Perhaps. Though there seems to be errors made all around. Still going over the FAA report (and the weird article about ghosts).

I would expect that if Sisters VOR was undergoing maintenance, ATC would have been notified and a NOTAM issued. We never did *anything* to a navaid without coordination with ATC.

/offtopic

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#82151 Mar 22, 2013
a_friend wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof is important to back up your claims.
Actually... Evidence is what is important to back-up a claim. As of yet, no religious believer has offered anything better than words in an ancient book, warm fuzzy feelings, and "I said so" as evidence of their 'god'
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82152 Mar 22, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Of late we seem to be getting a lot of circumstantial evidence that most of the stories from the Bible are just myth, i.e. not true.
I'm wondering how this is going to effect the myths about god. His stories from His book are mythical, just like all the other gods who have been discarded over time.
What "information of late", do tell.......fabricated by those receiving grants?
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82153 Mar 22, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>How can someone deny the existence of something that has no evidence of existing in the first place? BTW... warm fuzzy feelings, words in an ancient collection of stories and millions of people believeing are not evidence of existence of anything other than warm fuzzy feelings, words in an ancient collection of stories and millions of people believeing
There is also no evidence to prove that the Bible is just a story. Grimm fairytales are stories, the Bible is history derived from the Dead sea scrolls.
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82154 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>No the ones i asked you about...
I have to say that i am flattered that you came on this site apparantly just to talk about me, but if you really don't have anything to add but using your bible to prove that the bible is true, perhaps you should find some other endeavor? i mean, i'm glad to show you how yor cult lied to you over and over again, but it is kinda boring...
Dream on woodtick...I am not into angry liberal atheists in the least...Men who believe in God are much more of a turn on.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82155 Mar 22, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>
What "information of late", do tell.......fabricated by those receiving grants?
Are the grants as ;arge as the tax subsidy religious cults get in the US?

why do we have to subsidize people's faith in the US?
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82156 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, i get that, the proof has been given countless times.
I'll examine it if you provide it. Your fist pounding and foot stomping isn't proof.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82157 Mar 22, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Have you ever considered the water was beneath the crust in the first place and it came when the fountains of the deep were broken?
What fountains of the deep? there is no evidence of such. Where did the water go?

face it the re was no flood, your cult lied to you. again...
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82158 Mar 22, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a lifelong education, much of it in the sciences, plus all the resources of the Internet?
You want one single source?????
The internet can't post anything that isn't true, right? LOLOLOL!
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82159 Mar 22, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, unlike religion, science offers real answers, and real answers cannot be learned by "brief" explanations. You have a few decades of studying worth to do before you will have seen half the information for any scientific theory.
You do realize that science is nothing more than discovery of what is already known. Known and created by Our Heavenly Father. The rainbow for instance, a sign to never flood the earth again. Science simply provided the answer of how it was done, it didn't create it.
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82160 Mar 22, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is your evidence?
Where is yours, not some alleged, fabricated paper for profit and glory. That IS after all what archeology is. Where was the profit in writing the dead sea scrolls? Death to the authors if caught. Hmmmmm, considering that money is the root of all evil, I choose the dead sea scrolls over a profit turning "discovery".

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82161 Mar 22, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that science is nothing more than discovery of what is already known. Known and created by Our Heavenly Father. The rainbow for instance, a sign to never flood the earth again. Science simply provided the answer of how it was done, it didn't create it.
Nor did your mythical god. even hos own creation story shows he didn't do the creating. he didn't even get that story right.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82162 Mar 22, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that science is nothing more than discovery of what is already known. Known and created by Our Heavenly Father. The rainbow for instance, a sign to never flood the earth again. Science simply provided the answer of how it was done, it didn't create it.
wouldn'[t you need even the teensiest shred of evidence for any god to make that assumption?
CBOW

Abbottstown, PA

#82163 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Are the grants as ;arge as the tax subsidy religious cults get in the US?
why do we have to subsidize people's faith in the US?
A question to pose to your favorite politicians, woody. Get used to the fact that the 'discoveries" had profit attached to them. No, they couldn't possibly biased to the evo theory, now could they, LOLOLOL!

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