Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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76,821 - 76,840 of 115,305 Comments Last updated 18 min ago

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#81447 Mar 17, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Maybe we should think outside of the box when considering our universe. Could the universe be a system and if it is, what kind of a system is it? We can see various systems in nature and some of them appear symmetrical with left and right sides. All natural systems are grouped that coordinate to perform a specific function like our bodies for example where various organs make up an organ system and specific organs are present on the left side and right side of the body. The universe must of had a function, but how and why is still being pondered.
Your system theory is not outside the box, it is as old as the hills.(and not the fundie 6,000 yr old hills... the real hills.)

why don't yo try thinking outside the box?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#81448 Mar 17, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
funny how you label people when you are filled with shame of your own disease. Go see a psychiatrist. There's medication for psychopaths.
what? you don't like being lied about? then i won't mention the gambling addiction that led to your prostitutionb arrest...

or you could just apologize...but i don't really think you have enough character to do that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81449 Mar 17, 2013
d pants wrote:
<quoted text> then why do other animals instinctively protect their young? Or eat them instinctivly? All I'm stating is that what people call morals are usually instinct. If it comes to survival, they could go out the window.
Not necessarily. There is a species of squirrel I think? Can't recall of the top of my head. Calls out whenever foxes are coming. The pack runs but the guy who raised the alarm is eaten by the fox. Even in the rest of the animal kingdom you'll find that there are other species who will defend their young until death. Not a rule of course.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81450 Mar 17, 2013
d pants wrote:
<quoted text> what we don't know outweighs what we do. Fact is fact. Theories are not yet valid. Even in your scientific community, supposedly...
If theories are currently used then they ARE valid. Theories are made up of facts. They use them to make scientific predictions about natural phenomena. Theories NEVER get "proven" to become "laws". This is what separates them from religious dogma.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81451 Mar 17, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorting deposition is where if you have water born sediments in a current, the heavier minerals will tumble down first and form a layer, then next lighter and so on. Its a see to beleive phenon in a lab. I saw it at St Helens in post eruption road cuts and from pic's of the 1/40 scale grand canyon that was exposed later there when a soft material dam broke up high. When it lithifies, each layer is unique like repoured layers of concrete one on the other. Valley and canyon formation concepts previously taught as "one grain of sand at a time" erosion formations had to be rethoiught as the high-speed hot mud flows that came off the mtn created valleys in a few hours, not the creeks taking lots of time that came along as a result of the revines being made.
Fish and reptiles drown and sink whole, mammals bloat, float and fall apart. Thats why mammals made it to the top layers, they were flaoting around in the massive veg islands post the initial flood.
Except we have mammals right along dinosaurs. Not modern ones of course. And we should still see velociraptors with wolves because ALL the land was flooded. So it doesn't MATTER if reptiles always sink because - newsflash - most reptiles are LAND-based. AND we should ALWAYS see modern male leatherback turtles at the bottom and not the top. Your only other option is that when the waters receded is that, somehow, all the reptiles and fish were coincidentally dragged out to sea and not even one was left inland.

Which is of course ridiculous.

Especially since the flood left no fossils at all.
Mark wrote:
Ok so an error of saying no death, no massive death by water is what i ment. Your comments are appreciated,
M
No, you said that there were no fossils in the pre-cambrian because death did not exist. This is of course batshit anti-reality.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81452 Mar 17, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Well at least you read more than just one word of my post this time. The simple fact that systems follow cycles to perform a specific function is my point. Happy Saint Patricks day!
Yeah, I usually take you seriously until you reach that first "S" word.

;-p
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81453 Mar 17, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude,
Its the stupid humming bird, i'm a helicopter guy and they school me all the time. Never met a pilot who could outfly one nor an engineer who could build one better.
M
Exactly. In other words biology is not a good comparison to design. Setting aside of course that there are no mechanisms or theory for ID.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#81454 Mar 17, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
The labs know there are no write heads in a cell, only read heads. There is also data compression stop bits, and a superimposed code picked up by a second ofset head in humans to compress the data so the string lenght can be shorter, but hold way more data. All this can hold about several GB, all smaller than you can see with the naked eye. Thats why Crick wanted his space ships. ID is all over it.
M
ID hasn't been over it for years. Even when they were all over it they weren't over anything. That's why all ID "researchers" stopped before they even started and started writing popular books on apolegtics instead and touring the church circuit.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#81455 Mar 17, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what? you don't like being lied about? then i won't mention the gambling addiction that led to your prostitutionb arrest...

or you could just apologize...but i don't really think you have enough character to do that.
You have a mentality of a child. Does explain your IQ level as well? You wish I was a prostitute because I know how lonely you are.

You are the one who needs to apologize for your abusive behavior.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#81456 Mar 17, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a mentality of a child. Does explain your IQ level as well? You wish I was a prostitute because I know how lonely you are.
You are the one who needs to apologize for your abusive behavior.
i have always been a great judge of character. or lack thereof as in your case.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tenerife

#81457 Mar 17, 2013
B_Girl_Turco wrote:
I was a monkey.
Nope! Just related to a chimp.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#81458 Mar 17, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope! Just related to a chimp.
whatever turns you on. lol

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tenerife

#81459 Mar 17, 2013
d pants wrote:
<quoted text> what we don't know outweighs what we do. Fact is fact. Theories are not yet valid. Even in your scientific community, supposedly...
The way I understand it a hypothesis is not yet valid.

A theory is something that has been shown (by multiple testing) to be well on the road to being valid....or in the case of evolution which has been tested for over 150 years and passed with flying colors, it borders on fact.
Mark

United States

#81460 Mar 17, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. In other words biology is not a good comparison to design. Setting aside of course that there are no mechanisms or theory for ID.
Dude,

It's just one bird. A very interesting design that worth a study. My point is look at the blueprints, the anatomy, the genetics that create it. Its flight specs, g-forces, max speed, dive speed, endurance. Slow down and look at just this one animal and try to call it an accident.

Look at anatomic parallelism as it relates to genetics. Read Denton. You know, the finding where one wing's development is controlled by a diff. gene than the other and on and on.. Pretty lucky accident of mutations to get both sides at the same time! Effects all parallel appendages...even lungs! Bird lungs are another example. Design, function, design, function. Is that not intelligent,- design = ID?

You need a mechanism, most likely because I challenged you to present one for evolution. I'll give you one. Some time ago a biologist took apart a virus and killed it. He then put it back together and it revived! Now take a car. Remove the engine, panel etc. and it won't run right? Put it back together and she starts right up. My point is you won't stand there and say, man, this car is amazing, it created itself and I figured it out! No, a car has a creator, Ford, Chevy, BMW, you won't argue that, that would be foolish!

But because its a living thing you say "no creator needed"! Same for the humming bird or a Blackhawk. I run Lama's.

M
Mark

United States

#81461 Mar 17, 2013
I have a cool pic of a P-51 on a ramp from WWII. It's Sunday and a service is going on around it in a war zone. The caption reads;

Machine needs man, Man needs God.

Thats what I beleive -

M

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tenerife

#81462 Mar 17, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw a pic from Hubble of it, It has a cross in the center of the star, a rugged cross. no joke
Optical anomaly.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tenerife

#81464 Mar 17, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
whatever turns you on. lol
You do sweetie..:-)
adif understanding

Lancaster, OH

#81465 Mar 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
LOL, I will take the word of actually scholars of the Hebrew language over a biased concordance that you did not even link.
You are doing neither with this as concordances are created by scholars of the Hebrew language as well as greek, latin, and others. If you do not know what a concordance is, you never should have bothered answering.
Subduction Zone wrote:
Creatards are notorious liars and without links it is safe to assume that they are either lying or wrong.
And so are you. I have looked through some of your other posts. It would seem you and the truth have a big love hate relationship with you being on the opposite side quite often. However, I will say that to your credit, you do seem to believe the untrue things you spout as if they were true. This doesn't mean you are a direct liar, just that people you are getting your worldviews from are liars.
Subduction Zone wrote:
Please note, I provided a link that supported my side.
You made the incredibly stupid claim that ancient Hebrews did not have a word for sphere. I showed you were wrong. The word used in the Bible COULD be used to mean a sphere, just like round can mean a sphere too. In that case we have to look at the context the word was used in. Guess what, the context is that of a flat Earth, not of a spherical Earth. You still lose.
You provided a link to an idiot, that doesn't mean the idiot was right. In the verses you quoted, at the time of the verses, sphere was not a word and no other word was used for it. You went on about how a ball could have been used but wasn't but your problem isn't your inability to understand, it was their ability to understand.

It is amazing that for more then several centuries, people knew the world was round and only the self proclaimed atheists seem to have a problem with this. It is even more amazing that people like you insist that even after being told you are off your rocker, that something is as it is not.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#81466 Mar 17, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude,
It's just one bird. A very interesting design that worth a study. My point is look at the blueprints, the anatomy, the genetics that create it. Its flight specs, g-forces, max speed, dive speed, endurance. Slow down and look at just this one animal and try to call it an accident.
Look at anatomic parallelism as it relates to genetics. Read Denton. You know, the finding where one wing's development is controlled by a diff. gene than the other and on and on.. Pretty lucky accident of mutations to get both sides at the same time! Effects all parallel appendages...even lungs! Bird lungs are another example. Design, function, design, function. Is that not intelligent,- design = ID?
You need a mechanism, most likely because I challenged you to present one for evolution. I'll give you one. Some time ago a biologist took apart a virus and killed it. He then put it back together and it revived! Now take a car. Remove the engine, panel etc. and it won't run right? Put it back together and she starts right up. My point is you won't stand there and say, man, this car is amazing, it created itself and I figured it out! No, a car has a creator, Ford, Chevy, BMW, you won't argue that, that would be foolish!
But because its a living thing you say "no creator needed"! Same for the humming bird or a Blackhawk. I run Lama's.
M
They know evolution is made up logic test for every ape mentality that's still around so they could evolve and get smarter.

There is no scientific theory for ID because we already have hard science stuff, biology, chemistry, physics, etc. That is enough evidence to explain the nature of our world. But they keep asking for evidence for a creator as if they really want a bearded old man who punishes every sinner on Earth. If that's the kind of evidence that will make them believe, well let's see it happen. lol.

Anyways, I like your example of a bird. I've observed a bird that can go in different directions so fast that it would violate the law of physics if it were an airplane. Although I'm impressed with pilots who could maneuver in the directions they want. I've seen some made a U-turn coming at my direction just above my head. I've always wondered how how pilots register aerial mapping in their minds during flight almost instantly. The only thing I could do is pretend to fly when driving through a fog. lol
adif understanding

Lancaster, OH

#81467 Mar 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There are almost as many different definitions of creation as there are sects of Christianity. The title of this thread is Evolution vs. Creation. That assumes that you either believe on or the other.
Well, you know what they say about people running around assuming. Here is a clue, I have stated several times here that evolution could be a product of creation for all you know. And there is nothing scientifically that you can do or say that disproves it. It is very possible to take both sides of the argument.
Subduction Zone wrote:
And I doubt if you could spank your grandmother, dead or alive. So far you have been wrong on every post of your and are afraid to face even a simple challenge.
Actually, it has been you that has been wrong. You insist that you are right by finding websites that have about as much legit authority as any other random stranger on the internet outside of your confirmation bias. Millions of people for hundreds of centuries did not have a problem with it and all the sudden you think you have stumbled onto the holey grail of disbelief. All you are is a troll trying to satisfy your own choices in life by putting others down to feel good about yourself. One of these days, when you get out of your mom's basement and enter the real world, you might see things a bit differently but I'm not holding my breath for you.
Subduction Zone wrote:
So what do you believe and why?
Both. Simply because one could have been created by the other even if only in appearances. One is a useful scientific tool that helps us understand our world around us so we can have dominion over it like the bible says we have.
Subduction Zone wrote:
Do you believe common descent? What is the evidence that supports your beliefs? Do you even know what evidence is? Most creatinists don't understand evidence.
I know exactly what evidence is. We do not have any direct evidence of common descent but we do have evidence of it's likelihood. As I have already said before, this is moot because all speciation is a semantics game.

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