Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216730 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80999 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Its interesting that you know what to look for, yet you dont proceed to look for it.
Now that communicates something about your attitude or natural disposition towards "God".
You are hardly arguing without your personal biases.
Your argument is motivated by prejudice.
It is the ones who argue for a thing that bear the burden of proof; so the ones that argue AGAINST it have the "burden of disproof".
It is you that bear the burden of disproof regarding the existence of God. We are still waiting.
We don't have to argue against evidence that has not been presented. That's why we don't have to falsify "God".

The concept is non-falsifiable. That's not a good thing since Cosmic Sheep from dimension Zog are also non-falsifiable. Science can happily ignore what is non-falsifiable because there's no valid reason to presume they exist. Hence they are irrelevant to science.

If you want to argue against fundamentalist atheists who claim to have falsified the God concept outright then go talk to them. Science doesn't care. There's this one guy who goes by the moniker of "Skeptic" (affectionately referred to as Skippy).
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81000 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
There is nothing that suggest that no god or gods or goddesses had anything to do with creation either.
God or gods or goddesses could have influence creation; there is no way to prove that they didnt.
All you have is that "agent is superfluous to the study of the created" garbage. Pffft.
So either stop hating on God or continue to prove how lunatic you are.
How can one hate what might not even exist?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81001 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you serious?
If I came to you and said there was a green light around the back of your house; how would you verify my claim?
Have you not heard of the "effects" (attributes) of God, and how His efficiency is demonstrated in the workings of nature and the universe at large?
Are you serious?
No we haven't heard of them. That's why we keep asking. XO keeps pointing us to cellphones and computers. You keep pointing us to existence. Some point us to the Bible. No-one is able to point us to God.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81002 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
If you cant see evidence for creation, you are not only blind, but brain-dead.
Science would speculate that the world EMERGED from the point of the Big-Bang; so the universe was brought into existence at a specific point.
YET YOU SEE NO EVIDENCE OF CREATION?
Interesting. How very interesting.
If you mean evidence of reality then we see it. If you mean evidence of invisible Jew-wizards then no. Our eyes are fine.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Well I dont have to give a good [email protected]
The validity of my thoughts and conceptions is not based on their scientific-ness; but rather on the consistency between them and the world in which I live.
As such: I dont have to be scientific to be factual, accurate and right. All I need is to be equal in my thinking or be able to think with equity.
You aren't equal in your thinking. We use the scientific method. You said you don't care. Equality between us is now impossible.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
It is equity which validates all knowledge, because if there is no equivalence between what you have in mind and the reality; your knowledge is a lie, scientific or not.
Accuracy, fact, reality and truth dont revolve around science dude. Science depends on these things, these things dont depend on science.
They certainly don't depend on your subjective opinions, contrary to your claim.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Awwwwww [email protected]!!!
You mean to tell me that a simple word does not mean what it means?
You twist and turn things so much, that a simple word such as "create" might not even mean "create" anymore!
Sure it does. You merely expand the definition to include invisible wizards.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
OMFG!!!
<quoted text>
WTF?
Are you sane?
THE UNIVERSE THAT WAS NOT CREATED DOES NOT EXIST; FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT IT WAS NOT GENERATED.
<quoted text>
That has nothing to do with whether God created the universe or not.
The idea of God's origin is a separate one from God's creation of the universe.
True.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
But if you accept evolution which speculates at life from the in-animate; why cant you accept that God created Himself (life from the non-living, existence from the non-existent)?
Because there is no evidence of your god. There is evidence of evolution.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Thats obviously not working...
Actually it is. All the creationist denials in the world can't deny the existence of medicine.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Thats not working out too well for you either.
It is in the scientific arena. It doesn't work here because fundies aren't interested in science, as you've admitted numerous times now.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
I actually disregard the term because it is deceptive.
The term separates one type of experience from another when "Experience" in one thing.
I hate the term because it makes things appear as if no one can make a valid point or assertion unless they think the way you do.
And youre boring; so just imagine if we all thought like you. [email protected] nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooo!!!
It's not deceptive. You just hate the fact that things which are objectively verifiable hold more validity than the subjective.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81003 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
So it cannot be used to dispute nor refute the claim or speculation that God created first life.*shrug*
Evolution makes no theological claims. In fact it would work just as well even if (a) God was responsible for abiogenesis. In fact, there is no scientific concept at all which makes any theological claims.

It's the fundies who argue that evolution is atheism because they say it's incompatible with their god. Their god apparently is limited by what THEY think.

Personally I don't think it cares what they think.(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81004 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
"When men cease to believe in God, they do not then believe in nothing, they will believe in anything"
G.K Chesterton.
Great, we can do that too:

http://thechapel.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/...
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81005 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ask Darwin, he knew.
Ah, so you again ignored the evidence that validated him. How dishonest of you.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81006 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh! liar, the first line of defense of your religion.
Bo, why are you, a known and confirmed liar accusing other people of lying?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81007 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Thats where you are mistaken.
Jesu(s) said "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." [John 4:1]
So Christians should be willing to LOOK FOR SIGNS OF CREATION BY ANY MEANS EFFECTIVE; because if God is Almighty, He will not be limited to creating any single way.
Most of your conception of religion and God seem to be fueled by mere heresy and prejudice.
Hey, just cos Jesus said to test it doesn't mean that's what fundies DO. None of 'em around here do.(shrug)

Anyway, heresy is irrelevant.
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
We dont.
I just brought that up to show you that you are only seeing one side of the picture; and you are bound by education and ambition to keep limiting your view to the one side that is convenient to you.
<quoted text>
I know that.
Evolution could also have been used by God to create the universe.
Whoa, careful! According to most fundies here that's a one way ticket to hell!
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
Thats because they were idiots.
If God is Almighty, He can do whatever, however, whenever. So there would be no need to debate about whether or not the earth was the center of anything, anywhere.
P.S. The person that KNOWS that Genesis is a myth cannot be accurately called a Christian.
Why not? You just invoked God using evolution and many fundies would say you cannot accurately be called a Christian. In fact one said that very same thing on another thread just a few hours ago. Who is correct?

Different Christians disagree over the details. That's why there's so many different sects. What makes yours the "right" way? They believe in God, so do you. They read the Bible, so do you. They pray, you pray. NONE of you can demonstrate that their beliefs are "correct" or the "best". It's simply your opinion. And your baseless religious opinions are no better than anyone else's religious opinions.

But the fact is that Genesis does not completely line up with reality - IF taken literally. So either it is an allegory or parable from which to derive religious meaning, or it's simply incorrect.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81008 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
How will you show that the universe would work just as well without God?
Have you created the universe that works well without God yet?
Or have you isolated God and placed Him outside of the universe so that you can know that it works well without Him?
You [email protected] clown!!
Just look outside.(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81009 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't stop there, use all your religious defenses.
1. Liar.
2. Fundie, Creatard or any standard insult
3. accusations of ignorance and stupidity.
4. explain your own intellectual superiority
Didn't rely on number 4 in that instance. I then proceeded to demonstrate the other three.

Same as I always do with you.

Just stick to lame puddle-goo jokes and you'll be fine. I can't expect too much from kids.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81010 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
O-R-I-G-I-N O-F T-H-E S-P-E-C-I-E-S
By your prophet Charles Darwin
Not bad as far as prophets go. Came up with a theory that started a scientific revolution. Fundies got jealous and invoked Godwin's.

I'm a prophet too.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81011 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Hear ye, hear ye! Bohart is accused of heresey against the church!
The all knowing,knowing all Subduct presiding judge, all rise!
Prosecuting attorney, the Dude.
Subduct: you may procede Dude
Dude: you bohart are a lying,creatard fundie,with no education to dare question the beliefs of your intellectual superiors.
Subduct:I find you guilty! no mention of a diety is allowed , nor is any defamation of our prophets tolerated.
I sentence you to a re education camp where Darwins works are read daily and Dawkins videos and books will be your new holy scripture.!
bohart: noooooooooooooo!
Ah, so we were right?(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81012 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy you nailed that one, it's not so much that they fail to see though, but that they refuse to see, or even consider it for a moment. It is simply not allowed to be discussed.
Pretty much anything's allowed to be discussed. It's you who avoids discussion.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81013 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Accuse others of lying , bragging on your intelletual superiority.
two more defense mechanisms to go .
You keep skipping the fact that we can back up our claims.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#81014 Mar 15, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutions better? you claim that rodents evolved into men , hey changes over time thats what evolution says. Some animals don't ever change, what do you say? well evolution predicts that too!Your God of evolution explains everything right? then it explains nothing
Actually no, we've never claimed that some animals don't ever change.

Not once.

You'd think that even though you're incapable of paying attention at least SOME facts would even slip through to your brain even by accident.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#81015 Mar 15, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What conspiracy? Why, the evil world-wide atheist Darwinist evolutionist elitist scientist gayhomo liberal socialist Communist Nazi anti-Christian God-hating Satan-worshipping baby-eating Jewish illuminati conspiracy of course!
ROFL!

I have my EWWADEESGLSCNACGHSWBEJI membership card right here.

It's actually 3" X 5".

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#81016 Mar 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>ROFL!
I have my EWWADEESGLSCNACGHSWBEJI membership card right here.
It's actually 3" X 5".
What a noob...we just call it ew-wad....

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#81017 Mar 15, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And though HOG may be more intelligent than our average creatard here, he is still dishonest.
He obviously believes in creation by a god of some sort but he will not go into any details of his belief.
Trying to play coy is not being honest. We cannot have a civilized debate if one side is not fully honest from the start.
Also, science can refute a claim if it is well enough defined. He is playing the I won't be specific so you can't debunk my claims game. Another dishonest ploy.
So yes, science cannot "prove" anything. It cannot prove that the universe was made last Thursday complete with false memories and fake evidence. But to believe that is a fruitless belief.
What science can do is tho show how ideas "work". As an idea evolution "works" creationism doesn't. It is a very useful too that is guiding present day medicine, is used in oil exploration, is used even in modern day engineering. Creation as a science is not used in anything.
Creationism does not "work".
To paraphrase the wonderful Neil deGrasse Tyson,“God is an ever-decreasing pocket of&#65279; scientific ignorance.”

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#81018 Mar 15, 2013
HOG_ Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
No you do not know the source of the gravitational disturbances; thats why you associate them with a "Dark" matter.
The term "Dark" is used to represent the ignorance of its true nature.
So you dont know whether the thing which you have identified is the actual thing that exists.
And until you can whip up a pound in a scoop and drop it "PLOP!" on the laboratory table; you cant talk to me as if you know what it is.
<quoted text>
Do not try to prove the reality of things that you dont know. You ARE foolish when you try.
Okay, if that's your metric...

Let's see your pound of God.

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