Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80392 Mar 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
The majority of gods were penned between 10,000 and 1,000 years ago long before the understanding of anything outside our universe.
Agreed, and all suffer the same philosophical logical contradictions. Everything from free will to why does God have a dingaling.

Yet we still have no understanding of anything outside our universe.
ChristineM wrote:
And to exist in our universe defies the laws of that universe.
Not necessarily. Cosmologists have hypothesized gravity spilling over from other dimensions or other universes to account for our universe's mass. There could be different physical attributes involved here but we have no way to tell as yet. Besides, Goddidit only has to invoke magic to solve any and all problems anyway. Which renders it scientifically irrelevant.
ChristineM wrote:
This of course does not disprove the “thought” of gods existing, people are free to think whatever they want.
Yup.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80393 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
...don't you know your own science?...it will either merge, or pass through the milky way galaxy...not crash in any definition of the word.
It'll merge. However your pedantics is correct to the point that there will likely be no collisions, or perhaps very few.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80394 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
never claimed to be...just trying to give an honest account of the bible, not the the roman impirerish political view that you and your cohorts try to portray.
As I'm British I couldn't care less about Roman imperialism. You may or may not be aware that the Roman empire collapsed around 700AD-ish. A Christian nation too at the time I might add.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80395 Mar 11, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why use the word "jewmagic"?
Read in context, the word was used in a very pejorative way describing jewish belief.
Black people are ignorant when they use the n word to describe themselves.
Twain was wrong to have used the n word.
Anybody using terms like this in my presence gets a swift, accurate, and needed correction.
No excuses. Bigotry expressed in any fashion is wrong.
Use of the word "jewmagic" is deplorable.
If bigotry in any fashion is deplorable then I trust you will also complain about your creationist cohorts who show the same kind of bigotry towards atheists or anyone who accepts science.

I mean, I've just been called a Roman imperialist for pete's sake!

:-(
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80396 Mar 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Still don't have scientific evidence, do you?
We've had it for 150 years. Your objections demonstrate you don't even understand the basics. I've had that other post that every single fundie ever has avoided for over 12 months. You guys gonna address it? Not on your nellie.

Of course I could always point you to somewhere like PubMed and you can do a search on "evolution", and you will get over three hundred thousands peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. Not one of them making a case for the falsification of the theory of evolution as a whole. This means that since that is irrelevant to you also then the whole theory is all part of one big massive scientific conspiracy. Evidence is irrelevant to you because anyone who provides it is really just making it up because they are part of that same conspiracy or somehow duped by it. And only you know "THE TRUTH!"

So why are you asking for evidence when you have no interest in it anyway?

Why are you being as dishonest as a typical fundie liar for Jesus?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80397 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that it's associated with Christian religion...but in purest since of the concept...taking it for just what the words imply and nothing else, it basically covers all the major religions...
Actually, that's why I started using mostly "intelligent processes" instead, to avoid the confusion.
And in the end only left yourself even more confused. Since ID *is* nothing more than religious apologetics.(shrug)

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#80398 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed, and all suffer the same philosophical logical contradictions. Everything from free will to why does God have a dingaling.
Yet we still have no understanding of anything outside our universe.
<quoted text>
Not necessarily. Cosmologists have hypothesized gravity spilling over from other dimensions or other universes to account for our universe's mass. There could be different physical attributes involved here but we have no way to tell as yet. Besides, Goddidit only has to invoke magic to solve any and all problems anyway. Which renders it scientifically irrelevant.
<quoted text>
Yup.
Can we understand anything outside our universe, assuming there is an outside when the very laws that we understand may not even be relevant? Effectively an out of context problem on a big scale. I look at it this way, just because a person does not understand a problem does not automatically mean goddidit, it just means that there is more to learn.

Gravity is one of the fundamental laws of this universe, mass exists therefore gravity exits, in this universe the two are the same. Additional gravity may be leaking in however that gravity must meet the physical laws of this universe.

In recent times, perhaps the last 2 years or so dark matter has been mapped and what has been mapped accounts for approximately 5/6 of the mass of the mapped volume of the universe, as predicted by the “missing” mass. That dark matter must have a gravitational content otherwise the lensing effect that allowed it to be mapped would not exists.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#80399 Mar 11, 2013
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
This coming from someone who thinks the following is "legitimate science":
The cosmos was magically conjured into existence with a magic "word".
The first man was conjured up out of a pile of dirt.
The first woman was conjured up from a rib taken out of the man.
Magic fruit that makes the eater really intelligent or immortal.
A talking snake.
Incest, incest and more incest was a very good thing at one point in human history.
An little bunny brings eggs to good boys and girls on Easter morning.
Angels and demons.
Giants and unicorns.
Satyrs and cockatrices.
Witches and wizards.
A jolly elf brings toys to good boys and girls on Christmas morning.
Angels having sex with mortal women.
People living 600+ years.
People and dinosaurs living together.
A fairy brings money to good boys and girls when they loose a tooth.
A big global flood that destroys everything except the passengers of a wooden boat.
The sun standing still in the sky to provide more light for more productive mass genocide.
A talking burning bush.
A talking donkey.
A man living inside of the stomach of a fish for three days.
Pi = 3.
Insects have 4 legs.
Letting livestock copulated in front of a stick painted with stripes produces offspring with striped coats.
Sprinkling the blood of a sacrificed dove on a lepers toes cures his leprosy.
Etc., etc., etc..
Hey, you can disbelieve anything you'd like,
But Don't Trash the Talking Donkey.
And the Jolly Elf. Santa lives.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#80400 Mar 11, 2013
Two articles of interest (so far) today:

Evolution in the antibody factory: How immune cells are able to advance their own evolution
March 11th, 2013 in Immunology

Immune system B cells play a crucial role in the defence of pathogens; when they detect such an intruder, they produce antibodies that help to combat the enemy. They concurrently and continuously improve these molecules to more precisely recognize the pathogens. A team of scientists with participation of the Helmholtz Centre for Infection Research (HZI) has discovered that during this process the cells are able to advance their own evolution themselves by increasing the selection pressure through previously-produced antibodies. The results are also significant for the development of new vaccination strategies.

<<more at link below>>

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-evoluti...

~ AND ~

Untangling life's origins
March 11th, 2013 in Biology / Cell & Microbiology

Researchers in the Evolutionary Bioinformatics Laboratory at the University of Illinois in collaboration with German scientists have been using bioinformatics techniques to probe the world of proteins for answers to questions about the origins of life.

Proteins are formed from chains of amino acids and fold into three-dimensional structures that determine their function. According to crop sciences professor Gustavo Caetano-Anollés, very little is known about the evolutionary drivers for this folding.

In collaboration with scientists at the Heidelberg Institute for Theoretical Studies, he has been working at the interface of molecular evolution and molecular dynamics, looking back to when proteins first appeared approximately 3.8 billion years ago to determine changes in folding speed over time.

To do this, they looked at all known protein structures as defined in the Structural Classification of Proteins (SCOP) database and mined their presence in 989 fully sequenced genomes. In a previous study, researchers in Caetano-Anollés's group used SCOP and genomic information to reconstruct phylogenomic trees that describe the history of the protein world. The current research is based on these types of trees.

<<more at link below>>

http://phys.org/news/2013-03-untangling-life....
bohart

Newport, TN

#80401 Mar 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
They have repeatable tests for many steps in abiogenesis. The fact that they cannot do it from scratch yet is why abiogenesis is still in the hypothetical stage. You don't stop working on a scientific problem simply because it is not solved yet. If you followed that idiotic thought process nothing would be accomplished ever.
Of course creatards have never used their "science" to contribute anything to the world's body of knowledge so I guess they are just jealous.
Nothing but opinion, no scientific evidence to back it up.To say otherwise is a lie.
bohart

Newport, TN

#80402 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all, since I'm open to abio being caused by:
1 - Natural forces
2 - Aliens
3 - God or Gods
4 - An unknown fourth alternative that no-one's thought of yet.
It's all irrelevant to the validity of the theory of evolution.
Oh, and Harvard have a testable hypothesis. Which is why they are able to currently research it at the moment while you sit on your big fat lazy azzes pretending to know more than the scientists who work in the field.(shrug)
You liars for the magic goo always say the same thing, we are working on it, we're almost there! there are good leads,it's just a matter of time.Tactics of the lie.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80403 Mar 11, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing but opinion, no scientific evidence to back it up.To say otherwise is a lie.
You know that is an idiotically false statement:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar...

Thousands upon thousands of scientific articles about repeatable experiments.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#80404 Mar 11, 2013
Ummmm....Bo?

See my post above?
bohart

Newport, TN

#80405 Mar 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that is an idiotically false statement:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
Thousands upon thousands of scientific articles about repeatable experiments.
None of these has even ...REMOTELY caused anything close to life! has it. They are total failures!, you are just a liar for the goo trying to cloak your faith in it with pseudo faith based theories as a cover.You haven't had any credibility here since you stated that something that was alive then dead, couldn't come back to life yet something that was never alive could spring to life.You are simply a victim of willful blindness driven by a locomotive of denial which you will stay on at all costs.
bohart

Newport, TN

#80406 Mar 11, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
Ummmm....Bo?
See my post above?
Yeah, I missed the part about testable repeatable results producing life.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80407 Mar 11, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
None of these has even ...REMOTELY caused anything close to life! has it. They are total failures!, you are just a liar for the goo trying to cloak your faith in it with pseudo faith based theories as a cover.You haven't had any credibility here since you stated that something that was alive then dead, couldn't come back to life yet something that was never alive could spring to life.You are simply a victim of willful blindness driven by a locomotive of denial which you will stay on at all costs.
That was not your claim idiot. You said no repeatable science that supports abiogenesis. Those articles show that you are wrong.

And none of them are total failures. Most of them are successes. Why do you make that idiotic claim that they were failures?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#80408 Mar 11, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I missed the part about testable repeatable results producing life.
. I missed thetpart where any other theory has any evidence at all...Why would a rational person go ith any other theory that lacks any evidence to even start with?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80409 Mar 11, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>. I missed thetpart where any other theory has any evidence at all...Why would a rational person go ith any other theory that lacks any evidence to even start with?
The more accurate theory has not been hypothesized yet.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80411 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
We've had it for 150 years. Your objections demonstrate you don't even understand the basics. I've had that other post that every single fundie ever has avoided for over 12 months. You guys gonna address it? Not on your nellie.
Of course I could always point you to somewhere like PubMed and you can do a search on "evolution", and you will get over three hundred thousands peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. Not one of them making a case for the falsification of the theory of evolution as a whole. This means that since that is irrelevant to you also then the whole theory is all part of one big massive scientific conspiracy. Evidence is irrelevant to you because anyone who provides it is really just making it up because they are part of that same conspiracy or somehow duped by it. And only you know "THE TRUTH!"
So why are you asking for evidence when you have no interest in it anyway?
Why are you being as dishonest as a typical fundie liar for Jesus?
So you agree that I know the truth? lol yay!

The more I learn about the theory of evolution and real science, the more questions I have. But don't worry they are all scientific questions. I will address more later when I come across something else about your lovely theory and I expect you not to be dishonest as a typical evolutionist liar for Darwinist cult. lol

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#80412 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And in the end only left yourself even more confused. Since ID *is* nothing more than religious apologetics.(shrug)
Anthony Flew - The Honest Ex-Atheist

Flew was a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces. He also criticised the idea of life after death,[3] the free will defence to the problem of evil, and the meaningfulness of the concept of God.[4] In 2003 he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto.[5] However, in 2004 he stated an allegiance to deism, more specifically a belief in the Aristotelian God, stating that in keeping his lifelong commitment to go where the evidence leads, he now believes in the existence of God.[6]

://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fby TwmaJArU

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