Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218832 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#80387 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
and again...
are you saying that atheists do not look for fault in the bible?
We don't have to look for it.

It's glaringly obvious.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#80388 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So your saying there's no evidence that atheists look for fault in the bible?
really...lol
Many atheists started out as believers.

Reading the bible, with all of its glaring errors and contradictions, is what caused them to reject it.

They read the bible looking for truth and found lies.

It is not the atheists' fault. It is the bible's.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#80389 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And most accounts of deities tend to place their Gods beyond the limits of mortal ken. And if this god of theirs is responsible for the creation of our universe it does make sense that it exists on a plane of existence beyond those that we experience. This is what today we may describe as a multiverse and until we develop a quantum theory of gravity we cannot make any scientific determinations about it. Although it can be noted all current hypotheses regarding this make no mention of any gods and the god concept makes no scientific predictions.
But as it is this is all moot since it relies on philosophical speculation, and any and all problems are solved with Godmagic anyway. Which renders the concept both non-falsifiable and non-scientific. Which ultimately is the whole point.
The majority of gods were penned between 10,000 and 1,000 years ago long before the understanding of anything outside our universe.

And to exist in our universe defies the laws of that universe.

This of course does not disprove the “thought” of gods existing, people are free to think whatever they want.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80390 Mar 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
So being unique makes us mutant? Are we of the same species or not? If we are all unique, then there is no need for made up taxonomy in Biology.
Biologists disagree. And they have done for centuries. We however are the same species because we can interbreed. However I am aware that all labels we apply to biology (or anything else for that matter) are ultimately arbitrary. But that does not change the fact that life can and does change over time.
Cybele wrote:
A bee orchid is not a bee, it's still a flower species.
Flower is a species? Or are there many species of flower?
Cybele wrote:
A bee has always been a bee, unless you want it to be like a butterfly.
Nope. Bees are insects. Butterflies are insects. Meaning in the past they both share an insect like ancestor.
Cybele wrote:
Metamorphosis is not evolution and yet evolution requires a species to morph into another but since it requires millions of years for it to happen, we have NO direct evidence.
Actually we do. The fossils are not direct, agreed. But what IS observed in the fossil record is clear evolutionary progression. Therefore common ancestry is hypothesized. Evolution then makes successful predictions based on that hypothesis. However if you want DIRECT evidence then we have DNA. DNA is a measure of how closely related all organisms are. You can then falsify this idea by finding me just ONE bee or butterfly with the genome of a cactus.
Cybele wrote:
It is ridiculous because if we are still evolving, there should be plentiful of it in action.
And it is. We are all still evolving. But just under 200 mutations per generation is hardly likely to give us the dog giving birth to a cat that you demand. Just because you are personally unaware of reality doesn't make reality not real.
Cybele wrote:
The commensalism and amensalism in nature is not random chance whether you want to admit it or not. It is obviously following a natural order and pattern.
Sure there's natural order. Natural selection is NOT random. The opposite of intelligence is NOT random.

Careful there though, you're starting to sound like Mikey.

:-p
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80391 Mar 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Does sexual orientation have anything to do with being a particular species?
No. Homosexuality is observed in numerous species.
Cybele wrote:
Unique, yes. But, mutant? Let's use that as an example. We haven't found evidence for the gay gene. I'm fine with that. Because it is detrimental in natural selection.
No it isn't. It is a part of natural selection. If gay people do not reproduce then natural selection is taking place in ensuring the biological end of their lineage. Assuming of course that gay people don't go ahead and have kids anyway, which some do.
Cybele wrote:
So it's not that homosexuality is an abomination, it is devolution. I have no problem with bisexuality because well you get the point.
Devolution is a non-existent fundie fantasy. There is only evolution or extinction. Evolution is not goal-directed.
Cybele wrote:
Now if you factor in health, intelligence, talent, and personality, how is that evidence for evolution?
They aren't claimed to be. It's shared characteristics which is evidence for evolution. But not just any old characteristics, it's characteristics consistent with nested hierarchy.
Cybele wrote:
How does that change into another species? Does being biracial or multiracial make one a mutant?
Pretty much everything that has ever lived is a mutant as they all have mutations, ie, they all have a different genome from their forbears.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80392 Mar 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
The majority of gods were penned between 10,000 and 1,000 years ago long before the understanding of anything outside our universe.
Agreed, and all suffer the same philosophical logical contradictions. Everything from free will to why does God have a dingaling.

Yet we still have no understanding of anything outside our universe.
ChristineM wrote:
And to exist in our universe defies the laws of that universe.
Not necessarily. Cosmologists have hypothesized gravity spilling over from other dimensions or other universes to account for our universe's mass. There could be different physical attributes involved here but we have no way to tell as yet. Besides, Goddidit only has to invoke magic to solve any and all problems anyway. Which renders it scientifically irrelevant.
ChristineM wrote:
This of course does not disprove the “thought” of gods existing, people are free to think whatever they want.
Yup.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80393 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
...don't you know your own science?...it will either merge, or pass through the milky way galaxy...not crash in any definition of the word.
It'll merge. However your pedantics is correct to the point that there will likely be no collisions, or perhaps very few.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80394 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
never claimed to be...just trying to give an honest account of the bible, not the the roman impirerish political view that you and your cohorts try to portray.
As I'm British I couldn't care less about Roman imperialism. You may or may not be aware that the Roman empire collapsed around 700AD-ish. A Christian nation too at the time I might add.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80395 Mar 11, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why use the word "jewmagic"?
Read in context, the word was used in a very pejorative way describing jewish belief.
Black people are ignorant when they use the n word to describe themselves.
Twain was wrong to have used the n word.
Anybody using terms like this in my presence gets a swift, accurate, and needed correction.
No excuses. Bigotry expressed in any fashion is wrong.
Use of the word "jewmagic" is deplorable.
If bigotry in any fashion is deplorable then I trust you will also complain about your creationist cohorts who show the same kind of bigotry towards atheists or anyone who accepts science.

I mean, I've just been called a Roman imperialist for pete's sake!

:-(
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80396 Mar 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Still don't have scientific evidence, do you?
We've had it for 150 years. Your objections demonstrate you don't even understand the basics. I've had that other post that every single fundie ever has avoided for over 12 months. You guys gonna address it? Not on your nellie.

Of course I could always point you to somewhere like PubMed and you can do a search on "evolution", and you will get over three hundred thousands peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. Not one of them making a case for the falsification of the theory of evolution as a whole. This means that since that is irrelevant to you also then the whole theory is all part of one big massive scientific conspiracy. Evidence is irrelevant to you because anyone who provides it is really just making it up because they are part of that same conspiracy or somehow duped by it. And only you know "THE TRUTH!"

So why are you asking for evidence when you have no interest in it anyway?

Why are you being as dishonest as a typical fundie liar for Jesus?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80397 Mar 11, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that it's associated with Christian religion...but in purest since of the concept...taking it for just what the words imply and nothing else, it basically covers all the major religions...
Actually, that's why I started using mostly "intelligent processes" instead, to avoid the confusion.
And in the end only left yourself even more confused. Since ID *is* nothing more than religious apologetics.(shrug)

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#80398 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed, and all suffer the same philosophical logical contradictions. Everything from free will to why does God have a dingaling.
Yet we still have no understanding of anything outside our universe.
<quoted text>
Not necessarily. Cosmologists have hypothesized gravity spilling over from other dimensions or other universes to account for our universe's mass. There could be different physical attributes involved here but we have no way to tell as yet. Besides, Goddidit only has to invoke magic to solve any and all problems anyway. Which renders it scientifically irrelevant.
<quoted text>
Yup.
Can we understand anything outside our universe, assuming there is an outside when the very laws that we understand may not even be relevant? Effectively an out of context problem on a big scale. I look at it this way, just because a person does not understand a problem does not automatically mean goddidit, it just means that there is more to learn.

Gravity is one of the fundamental laws of this universe, mass exists therefore gravity exits, in this universe the two are the same. Additional gravity may be leaking in however that gravity must meet the physical laws of this universe.

In recent times, perhaps the last 2 years or so dark matter has been mapped and what has been mapped accounts for approximately 5/6 of the mass of the mapped volume of the universe, as predicted by the “missing” mass. That dark matter must have a gravitational content otherwise the lensing effect that allowed it to be mapped would not exists.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#80399 Mar 11, 2013
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
This coming from someone who thinks the following is "legitimate science":
The cosmos was magically conjured into existence with a magic "word".
The first man was conjured up out of a pile of dirt.
The first woman was conjured up from a rib taken out of the man.
Magic fruit that makes the eater really intelligent or immortal.
A talking snake.
Incest, incest and more incest was a very good thing at one point in human history.
An little bunny brings eggs to good boys and girls on Easter morning.
Angels and demons.
Giants and unicorns.
Satyrs and cockatrices.
Witches and wizards.
A jolly elf brings toys to good boys and girls on Christmas morning.
Angels having sex with mortal women.
People living 600+ years.
People and dinosaurs living together.
A fairy brings money to good boys and girls when they loose a tooth.
A big global flood that destroys everything except the passengers of a wooden boat.
The sun standing still in the sky to provide more light for more productive mass genocide.
A talking burning bush.
A talking donkey.
A man living inside of the stomach of a fish for three days.
Pi = 3.
Insects have 4 legs.
Letting livestock copulated in front of a stick painted with stripes produces offspring with striped coats.
Sprinkling the blood of a sacrificed dove on a lepers toes cures his leprosy.
Etc., etc., etc..
Hey, you can disbelieve anything you'd like,
But Don't Trash the Talking Donkey.
And the Jolly Elf. Santa lives.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#80400 Mar 11, 2013
Two articles of interest (so far) today:

Evolution in the antibody factory: How immune cells are able to advance their own evolution
March 11th, 2013 in Immunology

Immune system B cells play a crucial role in the defence of pathogens; when they detect such an intruder, they produce antibodies that help to combat the enemy. They concurrently and continuously improve these molecules to more precisely recognize the pathogens. A team of scientists with participation of the Helmholtz Centre for Infection Research (HZI) has discovered that during this process the cells are able to advance their own evolution themselves by increasing the selection pressure through previously-produced antibodies. The results are also significant for the development of new vaccination strategies.

<<more at link below>>

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-evoluti...

~ AND ~

Untangling life's origins
March 11th, 2013 in Biology / Cell & Microbiology

Researchers in the Evolutionary Bioinformatics Laboratory at the University of Illinois in collaboration with German scientists have been using bioinformatics techniques to probe the world of proteins for answers to questions about the origins of life.

Proteins are formed from chains of amino acids and fold into three-dimensional structures that determine their function. According to crop sciences professor Gustavo Caetano-Anollés, very little is known about the evolutionary drivers for this folding.

In collaboration with scientists at the Heidelberg Institute for Theoretical Studies, he has been working at the interface of molecular evolution and molecular dynamics, looking back to when proteins first appeared approximately 3.8 billion years ago to determine changes in folding speed over time.

To do this, they looked at all known protein structures as defined in the Structural Classification of Proteins (SCOP) database and mined their presence in 989 fully sequenced genomes. In a previous study, researchers in Caetano-Anollés's group used SCOP and genomic information to reconstruct phylogenomic trees that describe the history of the protein world. The current research is based on these types of trees.

<<more at link below>>

http://phys.org/news/2013-03-untangling-life....
bohart

White Pine, TN

#80401 Mar 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
They have repeatable tests for many steps in abiogenesis. The fact that they cannot do it from scratch yet is why abiogenesis is still in the hypothetical stage. You don't stop working on a scientific problem simply because it is not solved yet. If you followed that idiotic thought process nothing would be accomplished ever.
Of course creatards have never used their "science" to contribute anything to the world's body of knowledge so I guess they are just jealous.
Nothing but opinion, no scientific evidence to back it up.To say otherwise is a lie.
bohart

White Pine, TN

#80402 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all, since I'm open to abio being caused by:
1 - Natural forces
2 - Aliens
3 - God or Gods
4 - An unknown fourth alternative that no-one's thought of yet.
It's all irrelevant to the validity of the theory of evolution.
Oh, and Harvard have a testable hypothesis. Which is why they are able to currently research it at the moment while you sit on your big fat lazy azzes pretending to know more than the scientists who work in the field.(shrug)
You liars for the magic goo always say the same thing, we are working on it, we're almost there! there are good leads,it's just a matter of time.Tactics of the lie.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80403 Mar 11, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing but opinion, no scientific evidence to back it up.To say otherwise is a lie.
You know that is an idiotically false statement:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar...

Thousands upon thousands of scientific articles about repeatable experiments.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#80404 Mar 11, 2013
Ummmm....Bo?

See my post above?
bohart

White Pine, TN

#80405 Mar 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that is an idiotically false statement:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar...
Thousands upon thousands of scientific articles about repeatable experiments.
None of these has even ...REMOTELY caused anything close to life! has it. They are total failures!, you are just a liar for the goo trying to cloak your faith in it with pseudo faith based theories as a cover.You haven't had any credibility here since you stated that something that was alive then dead, couldn't come back to life yet something that was never alive could spring to life.You are simply a victim of willful blindness driven by a locomotive of denial which you will stay on at all costs.
bohart

White Pine, TN

#80406 Mar 11, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
Ummmm....Bo?
See my post above?
Yeah, I missed the part about testable repeatable results producing life.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 4 min Luckys mom Beffy 68,530
Last Post Wins! (Aug '08) 7 min honeymylove 149,140
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 7 min Tom 210,033
News Thousands of demonstrators protest Trump in Atl... 8 min Notification 86
Word Association 2 (Sep '13) 9 min beatlesinafog 22,811
News 'Is Rod Stewart drunk?' Star leaves viewers baf... 10 min beatlesinafog 3
Create "short sentences using the last word" (Aug '12) 16 min andet1987 10,775
News Trump's Dark, Weird, Inaugural Campaign Speech 42 min okimar 83
Denny Crain's Place (May '10) 1 hr positronium 20,748
More from around the web