Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221485 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80305 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't prevent it at all. It 'repairs' it. Mistakes in DNA replication leads to mutation and influences the mutation frequencies. So when you say there are about 175 mutations per individual in one generation, what is the probability of successful mutations in a species given the function of DNA repair system to counteract it. And in this process, how do you calculate the mutation rate for an evolution above the level of species. Because when a species evolves even in gradation which could later lead to macroevolution, there is also the chance of apoptosis to occur on the cell level and would not survive as a whole new species or mutant organism. Unless you can demonstrate natural selection in a mutant organism.
Thanks for dodging this.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80306 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't prevent it at all. It 'repairs' it. Mistakes in DNA replication leads to mutation and influences the mutation frequencies. So when you say there are about 175 mutations per individual in one generation, what is the probability of successful mutations in a species given the function of DNA repair system to counteract it.
33.33333333%

Mutations can be successful, neutral, or detrimental.

We're all born with over 100 mutations that neither of our parents have. Even creationists accept this. If you claim you're different then you were either genetically engineered or simply not human.
Cybele wrote:
And in this process, how do you calculate the mutation rate for an evolution above the level of species. Because when a species evolves even in gradation which could later lead to macroevolution, there is also the chance of apoptosis to occur on the cell level and would not survive as a whole new species or mutant organism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis

"Apoptosis (pron.:/&#716;Šp&#601; &#712;to&#650;s&#6 18;s/ also pron.:/&#716;e&#618;p &#596;&#720;p&#712 ;to&#650;s&#618;s/)[2] [3] is the process of programmed cell death (PCD) that may occur in multicellular organisms.[4] Biochemical events lead to characteristic cell changes (morphology) and death. These changes include blebbing, cell shrinkage, nuclear fragmentation, chromatin condensation, and chromosomal DNA fragmentation.(See also apoptotic DNA fragmentation.)

In contrast to necrosis, which is a form of traumatic cell death that results from acute cellular injury, apoptosis, in general, confers advantages during an organism's life cycle. For example, the differentiation of fingers and toes in a developing human embryo occurs because cells between the fingers apoptose; the result is that the digits are separate. Unlike necrosis, apoptosis produces cell fragments called apoptotic bodies that phagocytic cells are able to engulf and quickly remove before the contents of the cell can spill out onto surrounding cells and cause damage."

So I don't think you're referring to the correct thing here.
Cybele wrote:
Unless you can demonstrate natural selection in a mutant organism.
First of all, we're ALL "mutants". Second you don't demonstrate natural selection in an individual. It is demonstrated in populations. Your statement indicates a lack of understanding of the terminology involved.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80307 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
well .. thewordofme .. I'm weary of waiting
allow me to give this a shot ..........
NO MAN IS TO KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR
Jesus spoke these words to his disciples .. they were not to know the day or the hour .. just as Daniel tried to understand the prophecy God had spoken through him .. Daniel was told to seal up the book ( Daniel 12:09 ).. it was not for him or his generation to know .. but reserved for the generation that was to experience the time of the end
Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened .. and the moon will not give its light .. the stars will fall from the sky .. and the heavenly bodies will be shaken .... At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky .. and all the nations of the earth will mourn .. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky .. with power and great glory ... And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call .. and they will gather his elect from the four winds .. from one end of the heavens to the other ... Now learn this lesson from the fig-tree .. As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out .. you know that summer is near ... Even so .. when you see all these things ( everything prior in chapter 24 ).. you know that it is near ( very close ).. right at the door ... I ( Jesus ) tell you the truth ... this generation ( the generation that sees these signs ) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened ... Heaven and earth will pass away .. but my words will never pass away ..... Jesus .. Matthew 24:29-35
( now .. back to those Jesus is currently speaking to )
No-one knows about that day or hour .. not even the angels in heaven .. nor the Son .. but only the Father .... As it was in the days of Noah ( absolute moral dysfunction and breakdown ).. so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man ... For in the days before the flood .. people were eating and drinking .. marrying and giving in marriage ( business as usual ).. up to the day Noah entered the ark ... and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came ( suddenly ) and took ( swept ) them all away .. That is how it will be ( speaking about the future generation witnessing the signs ) at the coming of the Son of Man ..... Jesus Matthew 24:36-39
But.....he keep telling people...I'll be back before YOU die. Christians all over the place back then keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Finally the church fathers had to make up some excuses for him.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80308 Mar 10, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the average atheist has a agenda to disprove the bible.
So the atheist does an in depth search looking for fault...and finds it.
Matthew > Chapter 18 > Verse 19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.
Luke > Chapter 6 > Verse 28
Bless them that curse you...
See... God even help those who don't believe in him.
God is true to his word.
Wrong, try again.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80309 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you attack someone's personal philosophy?
Because her personal philosophy is willfull ignorance.
Cybele wrote:
Do you do the same with Buddhism, Taoism, or Pantheism? Whether it was Buddha or Jesus who reached this higher consciousness or nirvana, it's a model for those who want to attain a higher form of awareness of themselves and their world.
Which is the COMPLETE AND TOTAL OPPOSITE of what she wants.

She just said so.
Cybele wrote:
Do you use the scientific method in every aspect of your life? If a man knocks on your door with a gun, do you think in scientific terms and think rationally or do you instinctively grab your own gun?
I'll let you know if it happens. Unlikely though.

At least unless anyone here finally gets that pished off with me.

:-p

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#80310 Mar 10, 2013
No, xxxooxxx, it is that after reading such obviously made up crap a rational person cannot believe it to be true.

For many of us it started with the dreck they attempted to sell us in Sundaay school...
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80311 Mar 10, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the average atheist has a agenda to disprove the bible.
Actually Higher Criticism already did that centuries ago. And they were Christian priests. You're just 400 years out of date.(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80312 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for dodging this.
Thanks for dodging this:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

(shrug)

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#80313 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The phrase is not antisemitic, it only sounds antisemitic.
There is a difference.
That's the same way N----- just "sounds" bigoted. No excuses.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#80314 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, try again.
you say wrong...but fail to point anything out.
Khatru

United States

#80315 Mar 10, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Actually the Earth is an oblate spheroid with an uneven surface. Circles are flat.

The Bible calls it a flat square circle which rests fixed and unmoving on foundations hanging upon nothing at the center of a geocentric universe which revolves around it.
Untrue, a translation calls or a circle others call it a sphere.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80316 Mar 10, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the same way N----- just "sounds" bigoted. No excuses.
Wrong, context is everything. So a black person using the N word is a racist. Or for that matter how about Mark Twain?

That term may sound antisemitic but it isn't when you read it in context.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#80317 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, try again.
are you saying that atheists do not look for fault in the bible?
Subdiction Zone

United States

#80318 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No that is not it.

Jesus predicted the wrong amount of time that he would be dead.

That is a pretty big fail on his part if he was God. Or even the son of God.
Not all. Jesus was killed an a long weekend so to say. Many items point this out to be a Passover Sabbath.
(Wednesday not Friday death)

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80319 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I couldn't care less about evolution .. micro or macro ... it's in your corner to debunk design .. are you willing to do that ??
The fact that there is no evidence supporting your "design," creationism in other words, makes your entire point debunked by default. You debunked it yourself when you presented zero evidence.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80320 Mar 10, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
you say wrong...but fail to point anything out.
You thought you had the answer. You didn't. Do you need to know how you were wrong?

I will give you a hint, atheists do not try to "disprove" the existence of god.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80321 Mar 10, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
you say wrong...but fail to point anything out.
Couldn't possibly be because you fail to actually read anything more than one sentence.
The Dud

United States

#80322 Mar 10, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Actually the Earth is an oblate spheroid with an uneven surface. Circles are flat.

The Bible calls it a flat square circle which rests fixed and unmoving on foundations hanging upon nothing at the center of a geocentric universe which revolves around it.
"The Bible calls it a flat square circle"

No it doesn't only a fool could believe this crap.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80323 Mar 10, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
33.33333333%
Mutations can be successful, neutral, or detrimental.
We're all born with over 100 mutations that neither of our parents have. Even creationists accept this. If you claim you're different then you were either genetically engineered or simply not human.
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis
"Apoptosis (pron.:/&#716;Šp&#601; &#712;to&#650;s&#6 18;s/ also pron.:/&#716;e&#618;p &#596;&#720;p&#712 ;to&#650;s&#618;s/)[2] [3] is the process of programmed cell death (PCD) that may occur in multicellular organisms.[4] Biochemical events lead to characteristic cell changes (morphology) and death. These changes include blebbing, cell shrinkage, nuclear fragmentation, chromatin condensation, and chromosomal DNA fragmentation.(See also apoptotic DNA fragmentation.)
In contrast to necrosis, which is a form of traumatic cell death that results from acute cellular injury, apoptosis, in general, confers advantages during an organism's life cycle. For example, the differentiation of fingers and toes in a developing human embryo occurs because cells between the fingers apoptose; the result is that the digits are separate. Unlike necrosis, apoptosis produces cell fragments called apoptotic bodies that phagocytic cells are able to engulf and quickly remove before the contents of the cell can spill out onto surrounding cells and cause damage."
So I don't think you're referring to the correct thing here.
<quoted text>
First of all, we're ALL "mutants". Second you don't demonstrate natural selection in an individual. It is demonstrated in populations. Your statement indicates a lack of understanding of the terminology involved.
Where did you come up with the magic number 33.3333%

I was referring to programmed cell death. Just like we have beneficial mutations, apoptosis can also have an advantage. But that doesn't mean my question or my understanding of it is wrong. Please define how we are ALL mutants given the fact that taxonomy says organisms belongs in many different species. Define species. How can you say we can't demonstrate natural selection in an individual and then goes on to say that we are all mutants. Natural selection is a fact in nature that is 'within' a species. But this definition has been distorted to fit in with lie of Darwin's theory by claiming it can only be demonstrated in a population and not the individual.

"Natural selection is the process by which biological organisms with favorable traits survive and reproduce more successfully than organisms that do not possess such traits, and, conversely, organisms with deleterious traits survive and reproduce less successfully than organisms lacking such deleterious traits."

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Nat...

Do you mean to say that by examining an individual, we can't prove if that individual has favorable or unfavorable traits and whether she can or cannot successfully reproduce even if she's ovulating? lol

Okay let's go with your true definition. Can you demonstrate natural selection in this mutant population?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80324 Mar 10, 2013
The Dud wrote:
<quoted text>
"The Bible calls it a flat square circle"
No it doesn't only a fool could believe this crap.
Wow! Right for once. Only a fool would believe the crap in the Bible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 20 min wichita-rick 218,681
Names, A to Z, ... (Aug '12) 23 min rainmaker2016 3,574
only TWO words! (Nov '08) 26 min rainmaker2016 27,831
Make A Sentance out of a 5 letter word. (Nov '09) 27 min rainmaker2016 37,985
News Baby born on flight gets free plane tickets for... 29 min wichita-rick 12
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 35 min Bittersweet Goodbyes 76,012
Word association (Jun '07) 35 min rainmaker2016 6,561
Denny Crain's Place (May '10) 4 hr Bar Fly_ok 22,873
More from around the web