Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Long Beach

#80266 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
which bible verse are you referring to that points to a round flat earth?
It's round like a Matzo ball
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80267 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
If you read his statement he said
"Yet creationists tend not to believe that the Earth is flat" lol
Maybe a typo. But we all know it's a lie. There's not one creationist here that claims the Earth is flat or that is in a geocentric universe. He's digging into the past ape civilization and no one here is talking about a flat earth. In fact many creationists here talk about the laws of physics, scientific theories, quotes Einstein and other scientists, refutes evolution with real science, but they refuse to acknowledge that fact.
There are no facts creationists have to refuse. They have not debunked evolution, and the mere fact they are creationists indicates a double-standard where they can NEVER debunk evolution even if they tried.

For even IF evolution was false, their position is Godmagic. We could then also invoke magic and it would be just as valid.

But as it is, not one single creationist (or anyone else) on the planet has been able to debunk evolution yet.

That is WHY it is accepted as the main-staple of biology today by the scientific community all over the world. It's not all because of some evil world-wide atheist conspiracy.
Cybele wrote:
I don't know why he loves saying creationists think the Earth is flat. Mathematicians such as Eratosthene estimated the size of the Earth. The ancient Greeks tried to measure the circumference of the earth, then later determined the diameter. The Egyptians built the pyramids that coincided with the distances of Earth to the Sun and Orion, and measurements of the Earth. Many of the ancient civilizations learned astronomy and scientists today are still baffled about how they did it without the use of technology we have today.
No, actually the Egyptians and Greeks figured it out with math. And they were pretty darn close.
Cybele wrote:
So the only person saying the Earth is flat is the evolutionists using it as an ad hominem.
Actually it's not ad hom at all. In fact it's a very good point (setting aside for the moment that there is such a thing as the Flat Earth society, we've never seen one of those guys here to my knowledge).

And the reason being is that the fundies come here with the claim that the Bible is true because the Bible says so. So we, quite rightfully point out that it is in error and NOT inerrant as they claim. One of those errors being the conflicting accounts of the shape of the Earth. And indeed scholars agree that some of the ancients back in the day did believe the Earth is flat. Not very surprising for a bunch of ancient superstitious peoples who didn't know very much and didn't get very far out of the Middle East.

Now if anyone wants to say that the Bible was talking in parable, metaphor and the like, that's fine. But then that means it's not the reliable historical record that many fundies claim it to be. Some bits, yes. Some bits, no. Other bits undeterminable. Especially the magic bits.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80269 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
well .. you think you're a god and know all the answers .. you answer it
No, the burden of proof is upon you. I am simply showing you that there are errors in the Bible. And that the writers of the Bible in all probability did not know that the world is a sphere.

Why do deniers always try to shift the burden of proof?

Oh, yeah, because they don't have any.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80270 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
......... wait for it
No that is not it.

Jesus predicted the wrong amount of time that he would be dead.

That is a pretty big fail on his part if he was God. Or even the son of God.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80271 Mar 10, 2013
The Dude wrote:
There are no facts creationists have to refuse. They have not debunked evolution
I couldn't care less about evolution .. micro or macro ... it's in your corner to debunk design .. are you willing to do that ??
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80272 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
Darwin put no nails in any coffin. Do you understand what created means? It means to Bring (something) into existence. The entire premise of evolutionary theory could be part of that creation and you have absolutely no way to scientifically say it wasn't.
And we have no way to scientifically say the universe wasn't farted into existence by the Cosmic Sheep.

Personally I don't think Darwin had the nails. He had the wood. Crick brought the nails that put the anti-science anti-evolution claims of creationists to rest, scientifically speaking.

Which is why creationists now avoid science as it pertains to evolutionary biology and concentrate on PR instead.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80273 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
1. The Bible said the earth is round and is suspended in space:
The earth is round!
Actually the Earth is an oblate spheroid with an uneven surface. Circles are flat.

The Bible calls it a flat square circle which rests fixed and unmoving on foundations hanging upon nothing at the center of a geocentric universe which revolves around it.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80274 Mar 10, 2013
"Which is why creationists now avoid science" ... makes me laugh

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Long Beach

#80275 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>Well, lets just says it's what we think RNA and DNA chemical precursors would be if our estimates on the origin of life are correct. However, yeah, I'm all for the search. It is an exciting time to be in. I'm just dismayed that we don't have the tech to actually visit any of those areas in my lifetime.
Just late yesterday I went to the NASA website and they are saying that they have now found DNA IN space. Sounds to me like the building blocks are all there.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80276 Mar 10, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't come up with you're fancy scientific language, God is proven, scientists go with evolution more but God has been proven to exist.
"Proof" is for maths and alcohol. What we're interested in is facts and evidence. So again I ask how did you manage to come up with a testable hypothesis for your invisible magic Jewish wizard?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80277 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think that the ends of the Earth, quarters of the Earth, and four corners of the Earth assumes a flat Earth? That could've been translated into end of horizon or borders, and corners or quarters could mean North, South, East, West. Really the fault is in the translation or interpretation of the verse.
The fact it needs "interpretation" is part of the very problem.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80278 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible uses verses, like poetry. It is written in art form, not scientific. It is portrayed depicted using symbolism and metaphors. We should not take the bible literally. But I get your gist. That's the problem with bible literalism.
Bingo.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Long Beach

#80279 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
atheist religious doctrine 102 = Because we believe there is no God .. Human life is therefore not sacred and can be exterminated given the proper circumstance / rationalization and will ..
40+ years of legalized abortion ??.. and some might wonder why we have a generation of youth that would take what you have and kill you without a second thought
I really doubt that abortion is the cause of bad children. I wonder if it might be that parents really cannot address super bad behavior anymore. About all that is allowed is sending them to 'Time Out'
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80280 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a fool. Schadewald was a pathetic troll who made crap up with the intent of ridiculing people through deliberate misinterpretations of statements, of biblical passages, of positions people took, and you are basing your Atheism off his garbage attempting to unsuccessfully do the same. The problem you have is that his cards were already played out probably long before you were even a gleam in the eye of that trucker parked in the back row of the truck-stop you mom frequented before you were born.
Your positions, based on his, have absolutely no weight. They are completely fraudulent (you should look that word up) and a joke. You are attempting to emulate that joke and succeeding quite convincingly if I might add.
And the most funny thing about this is that I'm not even religious. I just like trolling the trolls with facts and you have demonstrated clearly that you can't handle it. So let me recap for you, Evolution says absolutely nothing about creation, science says absolutely nothing about creation, the bible does not say the earth is flat or the sun revolves around it unless you twist and contort the passages in ways that do not make sense, and your strongest position is a logical fallacy that two beings not constrained by the rules of nature must do something within those bounds because you insist- demand that these super natural beings are incapable of not following the rules and bounds of nature. You are so precious, do you do parties?
Total emotional breakdown.

We're sorry that we do not have to take baseless claims re the supernatural seriously but the fact is that we do not have to take baseless claims re the supernatural seriously.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80281 Mar 10, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I did that yesterday. DNA repair does not prevent all mutations in a new offspring. Just the same way that it does not prevent all mutations when an organism takes damage (eg sunburn or cancer).
No it doesn't prevent it at all. It 'repairs' it. Mistakes in DNA replication leads to mutation and influences the mutation frequencies. So when you say there are about 175 mutations per individual in one generation, what is the probability of successful mutations in a species given the function of DNA repair system to counteract it. And in this process, how do you calculate the mutation rate for an evolution above the level of species. Because when a species evolves even in gradation which could later lead to macroevolution, there is also the chance of apoptosis to occur on the cell level and would not survive as a whole new species or mutant organism. Unless you can demonstrate natural selection in a mutant organism.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80282 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>lol.. You seriously think you have done something? the best you have done so far is hang up on a misspelled word and point a link to a known troll who takes scripture out of context just like you are doing.
lol.. You have proved no one wrong at all today or any other day that I can find. Your pathetic life must be really miserable for you to be this way. Let me guess, you boyfriend shot you down because he is sleeping with your mom, and every one of the 4 most likely guys to be your dad ran away a long time ago and this is your only out.. I can read people, I bet I'm closer to the truth on that then you will ever admit.
You're frothing all over your desk. You gonna clean it up?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80283 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure how much more dumbing down for you I can do. If you still don't get it, then you never will. He made up his interpretations of the verses with the intent of criticizing them. He took everything out of context in order to impose a view that does not coexist with reality.
Now, if you still do not get it, then maybe I miss guaged your ability to learn something. Like they said, you can't fix stupid and I think they might have created that saying right after meeting you.
The point is that Biblical literalism can NOT co-exist with reality. Even Cybele has just pointed that out. This means we can dismiss the Bible as a scientific source. That is our only point.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80284 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>Who said anything about evolution? I can spank you in that too I bet. Actually, you would loose that bet because you are already comparing evolution to creation which you simply cannot do in the realm of legitimate science.
We don't have to.(shrug)

It's the creationists who do that.
adif understanding wrote:
This is not even getting into the fact that evolution and science in its entirety could be a byproduct of creation making it only valid because of creation. You should look up the term create and creation.
Your appeal to emotion is irrelevant. Sure, God COULD have used evolution. Or God could have done everything exactly the way the fundies said. Or God could have done it all last Thursday.

Since all religious claims are equally valid they are all equally relevant.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Long Beach

#80285 Mar 10, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I couldn't care less about evolution .. micro or macro ... it's in your corner to debunk design .. are you willing to do that ??
Debunk 'Design'....are you talking about Intelligent Design???

It's already debunked....the courts determined it was religion. Just creationism renamed.

The only people who cling to it are fundamentalist religionists. They are using it to try to get their dumb-ass religion into science classes in public schools.

It's all an evil plot by the 'Lying for Jesus' club.
Khatru

United States

#80286 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>And where exactly is the top of the world eh?
Which world? There are many worlds.
Only one earth.

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