Evolution vs. Creation

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Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80245 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
lol. nobody uses that term colloquially
Right, and they use the term ellipsoid colloquially all of the time.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80246 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And your article makes all of the same mistakes that other apologetics article about the Bible and the Flat Earth claims make.
The ancient Hebrews did have a word for both a sphere and a flat round circle. They never used the word available for a sphere. They used a word that sometimes was used for a sphere. So since it is not clear then the context must be looked at. You cannot use the fact that we know the world is spherical now to shoehorn that fact into the Bible. All of the metaphors used apply to a flat Earth and not to a spherical Earth.
Hanging the sky over the Earth as a tent only makes sense with a flat Earth . Angels holding the winds at the four corners of the Earth only makes sense as a flat Earth. Now you can claim it was poetic license. That could be true. Why is the Earth always treated as if it were flat.
When the Devil showed Jesus the whole world he had to take him to some very high ground. If the Earth was not thought to be flat why did he have to do that?
And where exactly is the top of the world eh?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80247 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, and they use the term ellipsoid colloquially all of the time.
So how would you tell someone the real shape of the Earth?

An Earth ellipsoid is a mathematical figure approximating the shape of the Earth, used as a reference frame for computations in geodesy, astronomy and the geosciences. Various different ellipsoids have been used as approximations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_ellipsoid

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80248 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
And where exactly is the top of the world eh?
What? Do you have some sort of point here?

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80249 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
If the Earth was not thought to be flat why did he have to do that?
well .. you think you're a god and know all the answers .. you answer it

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80250 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you know what really can drive them nuts?
Let me give this a shot:
Does any Christian out there know the prediction made by Jesus that was falsified before the end of the Gospels?
Here is a hint, it was a really HUGE error.
That he would come back (to life and to them) before they died.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80251 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
lol. nobody uses that term colloquially
_I_ do!

Laffin.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80252 Mar 10, 2013
That he would come back (to life and to them) before they died ?????

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80253 Mar 10, 2013
. . . . wait for it
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80254 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>They are not genetically incomparable. That's the point of calling it a red hearing. Dogs are claimed to be a ring species and it is often cited the problems of a great dane mating with a Chihuahuas. The problem is, this is entirely possible, the breed of chuiuaua gets up to 40lbs but what we commonly see is the toy varieties that weight less then 9lbs and often less then 2 lbs because of fashion (9lbs was a limit placed by one of the major shows for showing the dogs). Chihuahuas were originally bread to hunt deer by the Aztecs. Almost every other ring species out there has these artificial limits as their reasonings.
Dogs are a subspecies of wolf. Great Danes and Chihuahuas are likely genetically compatible, but size prevents them from mating in the wild. So they need artificial help to breed or an insane amount of luck or determination. However where breeding problems ARE observed are between things like wolves (or dogs), jackals and dingos. It's between these ring species is more appropriate to apply.
adif understanding wrote:
Which ones are you talking about? All instances of speciation I am aware of are capable of this. Even the new species of orchids, when left to their own device returned to the previous species within couple generations but even they were not genetically incapable of pollinating other orchids.
See above.
adif understanding wrote:
IT most certainly is not irrelevant because change is not all evolution predicts. It predicts new species from that change and here we have observed the same species which would be misidentified as separate species had we not known of them in reality.
For example Neanderthal, which are a subspecies of humans. Yet still distinct enough both anatomically and genetically to be recognisably different. However they were still close enough to be able to breed in humans, and we know that anyone with European lineage also has Neanderthal DNA, while people whose lineage remained in Africa did not.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80255 Mar 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote: Yes, you know what really can drive them nuts?.. Let me give this a shot: Does any Christian out there know the prediction made by Jesus that was falsified before the end of the Gospels?.. Here is a hint, it was a really HUGE error.
thewordofme wrote: That he would come back (to life and to them) before they die


......... wait for it
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80256 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>Sigh... First, the only thing that genetically separates the common breed Chihuahua and it's ancestor of 40 lbs is the size requirements placed on it by breeding clubs. Outside of that, they are exactly the same dogs. As for the incompatibility, it's not about the the thingy doesn't fit," although the mechanics of it might be interesting to watch for a laugh or two, it is about the carrying the little to birth. There is nothing genetically stopping them from interbreeding outside of the physical abilities of a Chihuahua or pups to survive the process to birth which is only in place because of artificial conditions placed on them by humans. Now, to illustrate how silly this claim of natural process is, a mexican woman who was born barren and unable to have children and a white male who was born sterile suffering the same, would not be considered separate species because they lack the ability to naturally reproduce.
That is not speciation, nor does evolution claim it to be.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80257 Mar 10, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't come up with you're fancy scientific language, God is proven, scientists go with evolution more but God has been proven to exist.
Really.....really.....God is proven?

WOW.....I haven't heard anything about that.

Where can I go to see this proof??

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80258 Mar 10, 2013
well .. thewordofme .. I'm weary of waiting

allow me to give this a shot ..........

NO MAN IS TO KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR

Jesus spoke these words to his disciples .. they were not to know the day or the hour .. just as Daniel tried to understand the prophecy God had spoken through him .. Daniel was told to seal up the book ( Daniel 12:09 ).. it was not for him or his generation to know .. but reserved for the generation that was to experience the time of the end

Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened .. and the moon will not give its light .. the stars will fall from the sky .. and the heavenly bodies will be shaken .... At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky .. and all the nations of the earth will mourn .. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky .. with power and great glory ... And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call .. and they will gather his elect from the four winds .. from one end of the heavens to the other ... Now learn this lesson from the fig-tree .. As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out .. you know that summer is near ... Even so .. when you see all these things ( everything prior in chapter 24 ).. you know that it is near ( very close ).. right at the door ... I ( Jesus ) tell you the truth ... this generation ( the generation that sees these signs ) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened ... Heaven and earth will pass away .. but my words will never pass away ..... Jesus .. Matthew 24:29-35

( now .. back to those Jesus is currently speaking to )

No-one knows about that day or hour .. not even the angels in heaven .. nor the Son .. but only the Father .... As it was in the days of Noah ( absolute moral dysfunction and breakdown ).. so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man ... For in the days before the flood .. people were eating and drinking .. marrying and giving in marriage ( business as usual ).. up to the day Noah entered the ark ... and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came ( suddenly ) and took ( swept ) them all away .. That is how it will be ( speaking about the future generation witnessing the signs ) at the coming of the Son of Man ..... Jesus Matthew 24:36-39
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80259 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
A 4-5 sentence paragraph is all you can write about DNA and genetics. How impressive.
In regards to mutation and DNA repair system, you still didn't answer my question. Nada.
I did that yesterday. DNA repair does not prevent all mutations in a new offspring. Just the same way that it does not prevent all mutations when an organism takes damage (eg sunburn or cancer).

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80261 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>NO, there is no word for sphere in the language at the time of the bible's writing. This is simply a fact. You can look it up, the original word is &#1495;&#1493;&#14 68;&#1490; or transliterated as chuwg which according to strong's concordance carries a meaning of 1) circle, circuit, compass 2)(BDB) vault (of the heavens) and commonly expanded to sphere in modern times.
I'm not entirely sure why you love it when things you think happen simply do not. Perhpas if you would stop leading from ignorance and actually spend a bit of time understanding what you are talking about, you wouldn't look so foolish.
Earth is shaped like a Matzo ball.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80262 Mar 10, 2013
Wait.....did they even have Matzo balls back then???

:-)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80263 Mar 10, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>What creation fantasy? and what was debunked lol.
As I said, this discussion is completely out of your league. You have no clue what is being said and are reverting to somehow I'm pushing religion or some stupid inane banter because you lack the knowledge and skills to participate. Like I said before, go sit in the corner with the creationist or do you want a special place for morons?
Oh, and I love how you make crap up. The bible does not say the earth is flat at all. It also says nothing about the sun revolving around it. That was dogmatic declarations by the church who is BTW, the father of science and study as we conceive it today. But hey, show some verses where it says the earth is flat, and don't point to metaphors about the ends of the earth or 4 corners because those are still in use today by people who know and understand the world of spherical. While you are at it, list some verses where it says the sun revolves around the earth.
Stop being and idiot.
The Bible mentions both the sun and the moon stopping in the sky for the length of a day (as opposed to the Earth). And there are some flat-Earth passages too:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

Of course this is when the "literal Word of God" all of a sudden becomes metaphor.

Ain't no such thing as a Biblical literalist.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80264 Mar 10, 2013
you should never view the obvious through the lens of the obscure . . . always view the obscure through the lens of the obvious

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#80265 Mar 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
1. The Bible said the earth is round and is suspended in space:
The earth is round!
You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!
In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV).(By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")
"He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).
"Paths of the sea" Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. He was bed-ridden during a serious illness and asked his son to read a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went looking for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/ScientificB...
So what exactly do you mean by flat?
But, doesn't He set the earth on a firm foundation also??

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