Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 219629 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80055 Mar 9, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>If that is all you can offer, you need to go sit this out in the creationist corner too. At some point in evolution, life had to be created (abiogenesis or creation, pick one or make something else up, it doesn't matter).
BTW, "observed fact" of redundant. A scientific fact is an observation, you are essentially saying an "observed observation" in some attempt (knowingly or unknowingly) to lend more credit to the term fact in reference to the scientific method.
No.

Let's try this again.

Evolution is observed and demonstrable.

The origin of life is not.

The fact that we don't know how life originated is not evidence for your deity.

Absent evidence for a deity, there's no reason to believe in one.
adif understanding

Little Hocking, OH

#80058 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, peer-review does.
And that is not part of peer review?
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Already discussed ring species.
Sigh, ring species is a red hearing. It's the "well, we are almost there so it must be true". Next time you are in a car with someone else driving, try opening a phone book and picking a random address and then saying "well, we are almost there so it must be true" and see how close you get.

Of course I'm not saying observations of ring species are random picks like that, but the credibility simply isn't there yet. We have been managing the breeding and in some cases even created the ring species but we have yet to create a new species because of it. Of course this goes back to the Species problem too.
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it means breeding problems are due to genetic incompatibility, just as evolution predicts.
No, you are wrong. The salamanders and gulls I specifically mentioned are claimed as speciation events and there is absolutely no genetic incompatibilities. The only genetic problems they have is the southern salamanders choose not to mate with the northern salamanders. They are genetically identical as a species other then that trait and the gulls are one separate migration paths. After looking for a cite, I see they are backing away from the claim of speciation now and claiming a step in speciation with the salamanders.
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, as while genetic compatibility cannot be measured in fossils, comparative anatomy can.
Exactly but that leads to the canine problem in which all breeds of dogs would be considered a separate species with some common ancestors. It presents a problem with reality when we understand and know dogs to be the same species. So how do we know those two sets of fossils that are different species with a common ancestor is not in reality the equivalent of a German Shepard and a Great Dane and the same species if they were alive and observed in real time?
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Just suggesting God's non-existence is a possibility due to the lack of scientific evidence.
Yep, it sure is. But it is hardley presented as a possibility and generally presented as fact which is not a scientific claim.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#80059 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you can provide observable mechanisms of intelligence then I'd say that gravity is so far a non-intelligent process.
"observable mechanisms of intelligence" are all around you. Just because

you fail to knowledge them...doesn't mean they don't exist.
by your own incorporation of universal design to advance science you are indirectly acknowledging superior design through mimicking.

you make an mechanical devise of a the solar system, and call this an intelligent process...then claim that the real thing, is not an intelligent process?...sounds like something a monkey would do.(pun intended)
bohart

White Pine, TN

#80061 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
some people think of eternal as a really really really long time ... however I believe that eternal is actually a dimension where time does not exist ... where God exists .. time is not relevant or maybe does not exist at all ... evolutionist put that in your test tube ... ha !!
Good point!
adif understanding

Little Hocking, OH

#80062 Mar 9, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>No.
Let's try this again.
Evolution is observed and demonstrable.
The origin of life is not.
The fact that we don't know how life originated is not evidence for your deity.
Absent evidence for a deity, there's no reason to believe in one.
If we are going to try it again, then lets be accurate. Parts of biological evolution theory is observed and demonstrated but it certainly is not completely observed and demonstrated in it's entirety.

Absent any evidence for or against a deity is no reason to have or not to have an opinion on the diety in the first place. It certainly is not reason to not believe in one if you do choose. The evidence most people have are not the type you can articulate easily and stem from personal experiences. Your lack of belief is no reason for them not to. There is nothing unscientific about it.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80063 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
you might as well pointed out a rock...I'm talking the system as integrated working system as a whole. including gravity and rocks...
Unless you can provide observable mechanisms of intelligence then I'd say that gravity is, so far, a non-intelligent process.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80064 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't presume nothing. I just a observe. And what I do observe is an uncomprehensible obvious intelligence universe.
You should check out Answersingenesis, too:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/t...

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80065 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
nope sorry your wrong. This was covered before.
No.
It was ignored before.
By the massively ignorant.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80066 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>And it has been proven that evolution is not science, not illogical religious dogma. Which is why I've always argued AGAINST equating evoltuion with science, when it is a religion of a social nature with no scientific basis.
I've demonstrated otherwise.
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
If I told you that the proof that God is God and always was, is the fact that his earth and his creation man are still here, you owuld cry foul, but that is what you do with your evolution religious dogma.
Proof is only for math, even you pointed that out. Remember? Now, if you had scientific evidence I would consider it.
adif understanding

Little Hocking, OH

#80067 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And I've said from the beginning that theism is irrelevant to science. Which is why I've always argued AGAINST equating evolution (or science in general) with atheism.
I'm glad that you feel that way. However, it is not the case with many who do use Science to further their Atheism. In fact, all you have to do is read other posts in this thread to see it in action.

I guess if you don't want to be called a thug, tell the thugs to get away from you or go where they are not. But as long as you are around them saying the same or similar things, you will be viewed as one of them even if it is a mistake.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80068 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
Oh that's right .. from the gue .. to the zoo .. to you ... OOooops !!.. http://www.gty.org/MediaPlayer/Sermons/80-367 .. then there was man
That's really not how it works, you know.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80069 Mar 9, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You've done nothing but lie hundreds of times. Tell me again how a maternity ward is proof of abiogenesis? You puddle gooist fundie.
I never lied to you. You have. Like now for instance. I never claimed a maternity ward is proof of abiogenesis, I pointed out that it was evidence of natural chemical processes producing life. Abiogenesis proposes natural chemical processes producing life. You claim natural chemical processes producing life is impossible. You are unable to demonstrate it of course.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80070 Mar 9, 2013
DARWIN = the atheist messiah
EVOLUTION = the atheist religion
HEDONISM = the atheist life style
GOVERNMENT = the atheist church (pending)
just because they say it's not a religion does not mean it's not a religion .. the religion of no-religion .. the first church of no-belief ... until atheists can prove their religious belief .. it will stay a belief ... much much much faith required ... I find some atheists more militant evangelical than most religious folks
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80071 Mar 9, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then for the 572nd time tell me and all humanity how chemistry brought about the first life? Or else your lying!
Abio is still under investigation. I'm not lying though. However abio is still irrelevant to the scientific validity of evolution.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80072 Mar 9, 2013
atheist ( April ) fools day .. coming up soon .. a national holiday ?? I think it should be

I think for this years atheist fools day joke .. I'm going to attend my favorite band / concert .. when it's over .. I'm going to climb up on the stage and thank the instruments and amplifiers for making such great sound .. Ha !! won't that be funny ???.. Ha !!! LOL LOL .... oh, ya killn me
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80073 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>The fact that I know so much about biology is proven by your fear in attempting to provide any biological evidence for evolution. It is a circular argument, biology proves evolution, evolution proves biology
But I have not made the latter claim. Therefore it's not circular.
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
but there can be no science in it since science does not deal in proves.
And I've never claimed "proof", only evidence. And in fact I've tried to explain the proof thing to xxxoooxxx and bohart many times, but they don't get it either.
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
Dude, all I see from you are copy/paste which you do not comprehend. If you did, then you would know that they prove or evidence nothing.
All you see is what you want to see. But what I don't see from you is any rational rebuttal, evidence against it, nor even any basic understanding.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#80074 Mar 9, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>If we are going to try it again, then lets be accurate. Parts of biological evolution theory is observed and demonstrated but it certainly is not completely observed and demonstrated in it's entirety.
Absent any evidence for or against a deity is no reason to have or not to have an opinion on the diety in the first place. It certainly is not reason to not believe in one if you do choose. The evidence most people have are not the type you can articulate easily and stem from personal experiences. Your lack of belief is no reason for them not to. There is nothing unscientific about it.
My "lack of belief"?

If by that you mean my reluctance to accept your hallucinations as my own, okay.

Point of fact: the fossil record provides a clear and demonstrated line of descent from the earliest life-forms to the most recent.

The geological column provides an accurate time frame for the same.

There is absolutely NO reason to inject a deity into the process.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#80075 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, clown, you admit to a C. I never got an F in my entire life. So sorry, I went to UCLA and USC on an academic scholarship. I forgot rote learning when I was like 8 years old, and learned analyitical thinking at age 7, creative processing at age 8 and brain expansion at age 10.
Yeah, and there's a guy called HTS on another thread who claimed to have 4 years medical training, but that was quickly shot down. You could be all sorts of smarts, but as long as you keep asking us to present evidence of broken nested hierarchy then you know jack about biology.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80076 Mar 9, 2013
Where Did the Information Come From?

Darwin’s Dilemma explores one of the great mysteries in the history of life: The geologically-sudden appearance of dozens of major complex animal types in the fossil record without any trace of the gradual transitional steps Charles Darwin had predicted. Frequently described as “the Cambrian Explosion,” the development of these new animal types required a massive increase in genetic information.“The big question that the Cambrian Explosion poses is where does all that new information come from?” says Dr. Stephen Meyer, a featured expert in the documentary and author of the book Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design ... http://www.darwinsdilemma.org/ .. continue

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80077 Mar 9, 2013
“This is a very effective way to present both the theory of intelligent design and the weaknesses of Darwinian evolution in a classroom or any other educational setting.”

A six-part educational series exploring the theory of intelligent design

Where Does the Evidence Lead was created for classroom, group, and individual study. It is based upon the content of Unlocking the Mystery of Life and examines both Darwinian evolution and the scientific case for intelligent design. Six modules (eight to fourteen minutes in duration) each present a specific facet of the debate over the theories of materialistic evolution and design ... http://www.wheredoestheevidencelead.com/ .. continue

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