Evolution vs. Creation

There are 164119 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80001 Mar 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
Why can't you say you don't know? Why do you fear not knowing? Why are you so arrogant that you have to make up a fantasy to fill in the blanks?
are you ready to allow me to take you on a tour ?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80002 Mar 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say it occurs overnight. However, there is no DNA evidence that suggest how many mutations one species underwent throughout the millenia. Can you calculate the probability of successful mutations in a species? If so, how did DNA repair system in the genome of a species surpass these mutations? Do you have accurate proof or actual model for it?
Okay, so you are denying that species change. The "repair system" is actually the cause of many mutations, but you need to learn some actual science before you can understand that, and you still don't even know the basics.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80003 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
I think Subduction Zone is a little to locked in his own box to see beyond the horizon ... that's okay .. good discussion is sometimes a process of elimination
Some of the world's most profoundly gifted thinkers are people who believe there is no God .. From geology to philosophy .. professors who are convinced the universe came by accident staff earth's universities .. I don't think lack of mental acumen is the common factor among atheists .. I think they fall into one of three subsets
1 .. There are those who refuse to believe because their hearts are set on self-rule .. Bernard Shaw once insisted: "I don't want there to be a God." ... His personal life was devoted to rebellion against all but that which pleased him
2 .. Then there's the stubborn who claim "my mind's made up about God so don't confuse me with any new scientific facts"
3 .. Lastly we have the Teachable Unbeliever who says .. "Until now I have not seen any credible evidence for the existence of a Creator"
1 - That's not me.

2 - None have been presented.

3 - "Teach" is debatable, since no-one's religious opinions are any more valid than anyone else's.

4 - Theism and atheism are irrelevant to science.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#80004 Mar 9, 2013
How did lif start, His Truth? No human knows. Does that fact make you uncomfortable? Do you have some need to feel specially created? Why? I know what a psychoanalyst would say about that need....

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80005 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
I think Subduction Zone is a little to locked in his own box to see beyond the horizon ... that's okay .. good discussion is sometimes a process of elimination
Some of the world's most profoundly gifted thinkers are people who believe there is no God .. From geology to philosophy .. professors who are convinced the universe came by accident staff earth's universities .. I don't think lack of mental acumen is the common factor among atheists .. I think they fall into one of three subsets
1 .. There are those who refuse to believe because their hearts are set on self-rule .. Bernard Shaw once insisted: "I don't want there to be a God." ... His personal life was devoted to rebellion against all but that which pleased him
2 .. Then there's the stubborn who claim "my mind's made up about God so don't confuse me with any new scientific facts"
3 .. Lastly we have the Teachable Unbeliever who says .. "Until now I have not seen any credible evidence for the existence of a Creator"
Once again, evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God.

You thought you had some cute argument and you are pissed off because I won't bite on your idiocy.

Now evolution is a proven fact. I can't help it if you can't stand the fact that mythological parts of your belief system have been proven false.

So once again, the subject is evolution.

Why do you not believe it?

It is supported by all branches of science and debunked by none.

You claimed to want to have a civil conversation but so far you have been acting like a petulant ass.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80006 Mar 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
I'm just looking for evidence, I am not interested in your sexual desires.
tell me when you're ready for discussion
adif understanding

Lancaster, OH

#80007 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it's a part of the scientific debate on abiogenesis, not evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis#Bubb...
Although the way you initially described it made it sound like it was referring to multiple independent abiogenesis events, thus an impediment to common ancestry. If that was the case, then it's crank stuff, if not then I apologise for misreading.
I wouldn't say it is crank stuff, punctuated equilibrium is a popular theory that would completely allow for panspermia and even multiple abiogenesis events localized to certain areas. However, that was not what I was speaking of.

As for Abiogenesis, it does extend into evolutionary theory to the extent that no species truly has a common ancestor different from itself in a past representation. Or in other words, speciation outside of the evolution of the current species all happened at or near abiogenesis. This won't work with our current definitions of species and the taxonomy we have created without changes (the tree is more like a telephone pole), but it can certainly help with the explanation of the different kingdoms all the way through super families. But then again, I assume you are versed in the species problem.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#80008 Mar 9, 2013
But oscar wilde..there is evidence to back up evolution theory. Not one shred for any creator. Not. One. Shred.

Ever.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#80009 Mar 9, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
Actually, Cybele, as you have been shown many times Genesis doesn't get the story of how our universe or world was formed correct. How can the god that supposedly made everything not get the story right?
you were lied to by the people who run your cult.
your assuming that Genesis didn't get it right, because you have unquestionable faith in the collective workings of self proclaimed monkeys.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80010 Mar 9, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
It doesn't matter what it sounds like to you. People are making articulated and accurate representations and your holding your fingers in your ears yelling I'm not listening does not make their speech disappear.
No, peer-review does.
adif understanding wrote:
Yes, there very much is "just theory" in science. A theory or even law by scientific definition does not in any way preclude other hypothesis from becoming theory. You cannot say, we found through theory X that Y is created by X+1 always and never will it ever be another way. Scientifically speaking a fact is only an observation too.
Don't confuse them with the legal facts in a court room where a court does decide X is true and X will always be true in this case. A theory explains the observations through validation of hypothesis which can be right and wrong in the same sense.
<quoted text> First, quoting yourself is like saying it's true, look, I said it's true so it must be true. It's what the conspiracy theorist do to convince your that reptiles are taking over the world. It is exactly semantics through the manipulations of definitions as you can take every claim of speciation and universally apply the definition and logic that supports the claim to every day life and it breaks completely. Take the salamanders in California or the gulls on Europe which they claim are separate species simply because a geographic divide (a mountain with the salamanders and migration patterns with the gulls) means speciation because the propensity to mate is not there any more. This completely disregards the ability to breed and instead focuses on propensity to bread as the major claim for speciation.
Already discussed ring species.
adif understanding wrote:
But when you take a border collie in the US compared to the same in Australia, we don't consider them separate species. If you have a horse that won't stud with certain mares, it doesn't mean the mares are a separate species. Yet, this same thing is claimed to be evidence of new species from existing species. The problem is either we are changing definitions in order to find something that wouldn't already exist or we are not currently defining the taxonomy of species properly.
No, it means breeding problems are due to genetic incompatibility, just as evolution predicts.
adif understanding wrote:
Actually, it is an evolution problem as the labels are attached and given weight where we simply do not have the insight to completely understand. If the bulk of the weight is from comparing fossils of animals that we would consider the same species if alive today as different species altogether, then the case for evolution is not as solid as people pretend. If the problem is our current labeling of species and how we consider canine to be the same species, then the same problem exists as to the importance of species in evolution.
These are however, problems that are not insurmountable. It just requires a little more examination.
No, as while genetic compatibility cannot be measured in fossils, comparative anatomy can.
adif understanding wrote:
If it ever happened in implied by the lack of evidence for it happening. Are you suggesting I need to draw a picture with everything I say?
Nope. Just suggesting God's non-existence is a possibility due to the lack of scientific evidence.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80011 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no obvious "evidence" of God, but an obvious intelligence behind the complexity of the universe which implies God. And that's only on the physical plane.
your denial of the obvious, can readily be explained in terms of psychology, and projections of the ego.
So you are presuming, and you think your presumptions count as evidence. That's not very intelligent.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80012 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
tell me when you're ready for discussion
So ... you have no evidence. Why did you bother leading me on then? I want evidence and you just give me nonsense.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80013 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>What claims? we are talking about your silly big bang and evolution claims. We are talking about Jurassic rats evolving to become your grandpa and black holes in the millions but none to be found.
Wow!

How ignorant can you be.

Scientists have observed black hole. The best are observations of stars circling the black hole at the center of our galaxy.

The Big Bang was first proposed by a Christian. Since then the evidence for it has become irrefutable.

The evidence for evolution is stronger than that of any murder trail in history and yet creatards deny it.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80014 Mar 9, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
Actually, Cybele, as you have been shown many times Genesis doesn't get the story of how our universe or world was formed correct. How can the god that supposedly made everything not get the story right?
you were lied to by the people who run your cult.
Did God write the Genesis? really? What part did you not get. It's the fault of those who wrote it.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#80015 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
your assuming that Genesis didn't get it right, because you have unquestionable faith in the collective workings of self proclaimed monkeys.
What assumption? The bible placed plants before the sun, that's simply not possible.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80016 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
either way .. how did life start ... what happens after life starts is quite another issue ... I'm more interested in the origin of life .. everything else should hang from that
Yet it doesn't. The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. All it needs is for life to be here. Life IS here. Life evolves. Facts. In order to demonstrate otherwise you need to demonstrate that life is in fact NOT here. Good luck.

This doesn't mean that abio should not be investigated however, in fact it's already being researched by biochemists all over the world. But the validity of the theory of evolution does not hang on it. Evolution doesn't care if life developed naturally, if aliens are responsible, or if Goddidit with magic. Or there could even be a fourth possibility we just haven't thought of yet. It doesn't matter to evolution which only requires the existence of life - which we have.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#80017 Mar 9, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Once again evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God ou thought you had some cute argument and you are pissed off because I won't bite on your idiocy Now evolution is a proven fact I can't help it if you can't stand the fact that mythological parts of your belief system have been proven false So once again, the subject is evolution Why do you not believe it It is supported by all branches of science and debunked by none You claimed to want to have a civil conversation but so far you have been acting like a petulant ass
tell me when you're ready for discussion

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#80018 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
tell me when you're ready for discussion
Sadly I have to run for a few hours.

Maybe you will have made some sort of point that we can discuss by the time I get back.

I don't think you will find anyone who is willing to play your foolish theological games here. It is not our aim to prove or disprove the existence of god.
adif understanding

Lancaster, OH

#80019 Mar 9, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*sigh*
Evolution is an observed fact.
The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain how it works.
Neither has anything to do with the origin of life - that's a whole nother subject.
If that is all you can offer, you need to go sit this out in the creationist corner too. At some point in evolution, life had to be created (abiogenesis or creation, pick one or make something else up, it doesn't matter).

BTW, "observed fact" of redundant. A scientific fact is an observation, you are essentially saying an "observed observation" in some attempt (knowingly or unknowingly) to lend more credit to the term fact in reference to the scientific method.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#80020 Mar 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, so you are denying that species change. The "repair system" is actually the cause of many mutations, but you need to learn some actual science before you can understand that, and you still don't even know the basics.
No. You need to learn basic English. Re-read my post. I did not say the DNA repair system actually cause many mutations. You would not say this if you truly understand the concept of DNA repair system. Do you have the math to back up the claim of successful mutations in a species that can be overcome by the DNA repair system? Their I re-worded it for you.

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