Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Jan 6, 2011, Best of New Orleans story titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79899 Mar 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Exactly. They want God to pass the scientific method. How absurd is that? Why would God that created the entire universe become a science experiment? Even if science could provide evidence and can show it to be testable, it would still not have scientific explanation for its entire being. God is beyond the realm of science and human logic.
So is Star Wars.
Cybele wrote:
Science can only get a glimpse of it but not be able to fully explain it.
Actually it can't glimpse it at all.
Cybele wrote:
In fact, we can't even use the scientific method for the origin of all the universes because the laws of physics that we know are bounded in our planet.
I think you mean bound to our universe.
Cybele wrote:
We can't even apply the same laws of physics in Pluto and yet we try to explain blackholes and the big bang with these current laws.
Actually Pluto works fine under Einstein's theory of relativity.
Cybele wrote:
We do know that elements are manufactured in the stars, but can it be testable?
Yes, with the field of spectroscopy.

You are free to deny it but then you would have to deny the claim that our sun is a star. And other stars may as well be nothing more than pinpricks of light through a covered sheet.
Cybele wrote:
Then why would they come up with excuses that there are no intelligent life in other planets or galaxies because we can't possibly reach them and yet they have scientific theories for how stars are formed despite the fact that there is no way we can get to even the nearest star in a lifetime.
Because people who claim that are apologists. Alien life is VERY possible. But the barriers to contacting them are very real.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#79900 Mar 9, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Origins of different species or the origin of life itself? The answer to the first is yes, the answer to the second is no. The origin of life itself is the study of abiogenesis, a separate but related subject. By the way, technically even creationists believe in abiogenesis.
either way .. the origin of life .. all life = triune

energy / matter and ...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79901 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
apparently science had been keeping that one kinda low key...I wonder why?
If so you wouldn't have been able to link to them.
xxxooxxx wrote:
ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news and science breakthroughs -- updated daily
When The Earth Dried Out
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/...
Many geologists agree with this scenario, Moores said. What is controversial is how quickly the Earth changed from a planet covered in water with a few mountainous islands to one with large continental landmasses. According to Moores' theory, the continents emerged quite suddenly, over about 200 million years, at the same time that the supercontinent Rodinia was forming.
Cool.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#79903 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
The theory of evolution does not rely on explaining the origin of life . The theory of gravity does not rely on explaining the origin of mass . The germ theory of disease does not rely on explaining the origin of germs . Yet all three theories work. This is because all they rely on is making successful scientific predictions based on currently observable phenomena
this may be true .. however .. if evolutionists are claiming that there is no creation .. then somewhere .. evolution is going to have to explain the origin of life ... am I not correct ??

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#79904 Mar 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So now you are saying there was a void at one time? What do you base this presumption on? Also, if everything else demands a creator, then so does your god, what created your god in that case?
A god outside of time and space, is not limited, or subject to time and space... this is why god is eternal.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79909 Mar 9, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, there is a macro and micro. It is the dividing point in which people claim a species evolves as it's own and when a species evolves into another. The bubble theory of evolution states something of the sorts that the RNA sequent were created like bubbles of foam in the wave action of the ocean. If you tested the foam, it wouldn't be the same 10 meters apart and the primordial soup that generated life was created similar to that. This means that all species are formed at one time and did not evolve from other species outside of semantics used to segregate the timeline of evolution. In other words, a species did not evolve from common ancestors but from unique ancestors and all the diversity in life we see comes from microevolution of the same species created in the same or similar events.
Sounds like the crackpot thoughts of Dr Perrenian Senapathy.
adif understanding wrote:
Of course this is just theory as well as the evidence of panspermia events that could cause the same things to happen.
There is no "just theory" in science. "Theory" in science is not "wild guess". Scientific theories are a collection of facts and hypotheses that form a scientific model capable of making scientific predictions.
adif understanding wrote:
The macro evolution or speciation as the creationist and atheist like to call it, has not been observed directly and there is no transitional fossils without employing semantics (manipulation of language) to make findings fit. There is no one universal definition for species and all speciation events attempt to employ up to 5 different ones in order to make the claims.
Semantics is not necessary. The only "problem" with language you are seeing is a problem with language, not the science. Because reality doesn't care about the arbitrary pigeon holes we use as labels to describe things with language. That is why there are times we have problem describing what species an organism might be, just like we would have to make an arbitrary decision between calling a specific colour "more red" or "more orange" on a colour gradient.

We have the same problem with describing planets, which resulted in a new definition which now makes Pluto a "dwarf planet". But that doesn't mean we know less about planets. And what IS observed in biology is clear evolutionary progression:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
adif understanding wrote:
There was an interesting discussion a while back which included some prominent evolutionist. It came down to the diversity of dogs in which there are so many different species that if we did not have a living specimens to go by and all we had was a fossil record, applying these same rules would have required the majority of breeds of dogs to be classified as different species yet because they are live and well among us, we treat them as breeds or types of the same species.
Yes, a label problem. Not an evolution problem.
adif understanding wrote:
And as I said in another post, in science, the lack of evidence only means there is a lack of evidence, not that something did not happen, could not happen, or would not happen- only that we do not know if it did or will happen.
Or if it ever happened. You always seem to leave that part out.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#79910 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
So is Star Wars.
<quoted text>
Actually it can't glimpse it at all.
<quoted text>
I think you mean bound to our universe.
<quoted text>
Actually Pluto works fine under Einstein's theory of relativity.
<quoted text>
Yes, with the field of spectroscopy.
You are free to deny it but then you would have to deny the claim that our sun is a star. And other stars may as well be nothing more than pinpricks of light through a covered sheet.
<quoted text>
Because people who claim that are apologists. Alien life is VERY possible. But the barriers to contacting them are very real.
Star Wars is beyond Science and human logic? Lame. A writer imagined it.

When I say star, I did not mean the Sun (I would strictly call it Sun). I meant the stars in the constellations such as the big dipper or the Orion.

So the theory of relativity encompasses all the current laws of physics? really?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#79911 Mar 9, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
If so you wouldn't have been able to link to them.
<quoted text>
Cool.
well apparently those who claim to know so much about science on this thread was not aware of such an important science theory that is dated 2002...would make one wonder.

my only point is that everyone seems to be agreeing that the earth was once cover with water...regardless of the time frame.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79912 Mar 9, 2013
adif understanding wrote:
<quoted text>You better look again. And this time, stay away from those atheist it's all fact sites.
The bubble theory of evolution is not mainstream, panspermia is not mainstream, but they exist and they are part of the scientific debate on evolution. If you can't grasp that in your little head, then go sit with the creationists in the dunce cap section.
Actually it's a part of the scientific debate on abiogenesis, not evolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis#Bubb...

Although the way you initially described it made it sound like it was referring to multiple independent abiogenesis events, thus an impediment to common ancestry. If that was the case, then it's crank stuff, if not then I apologise for misreading.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79913 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
like I said before...a true void would not contain laws...unless your suggesting that there are eternal laws that stand apart from time and space...such as God?
As I said before, your "void" is irrelevant.
Babylon

United States

#79915 Mar 9, 2013
Science cannot see outside of whats here.
science knows nothing of whats outside of the universe.
God, Eternity.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#79916 Mar 9, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
A god outside of time and space, is not limited, or subject to time and space... this is why god is eternal.
some people think of eternal as a really really really long time ... however I believe that eternal is actually a dimension where time does not exist ... where God exists .. time is not relevant or maybe does not exist at all ... evolutionist put that in your test tube ... ha !!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79917 Mar 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you like to use another theory to support the validity of another theory? You love using the example of existence of gravity and its laws/theory that is as valid as the theory of evolution. If so, how does the theory of gravity support the theory of evolution? In your logic, the string theory is a fact because gravity is fact.
I don't use gravity to support evolution, I use biology to support evolution.

His contention is (shared by many creationists) that if evolution cannot explain the origin of life then evolution is seriously flawed. In which case the theory of gravity and germ theory of disease are also both fundamentally flawed as neither of those explain their respective origins either. I then point out that in reality this is not the case. Since all theories work. Evolution works using biology, gravity works using mass, and germ theory works using germs. The respective origins aren't essential to the theory as we have the relevant phenomena existing for the mechanisms of each theory to operate on.

If there is no life there is no evolution. If there is no mass there is no gravity. If there are no germs there is no germ theory.

But we HAVE them. We have life. We have mass. We have germs. Therefore each theory works. It doesn't matter if the respective origin for each was magic, aliens, or something else we haven't even thought of yet - it's a separate line of enquiry. And enquire we do. But, so far at least, it does not affect the validity of those three theories.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79918 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Trying to compare evolution junk science to creationism, is like trying to claim the homosexuals are born that way but the environment and socialization are the major factors. They fail.
Why do you hate kittens?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#79920 Mar 9, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
either way .. the origin of life .. all life = triune
energy / matter and ...
Go ahead. Finish your foolish claim. We are waiting.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#79924 Mar 9, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Considering that you are a "evoloontard", I get your problem. If you keep spewikng evolution lies even after they admit that they lied and were wroing, then you are an evoloontard. Sadly this word applies to all evolutionists. I have observed that you are a evoloontard, because you deny science and call evolution theory science. You are not a scientist, if so, then you could not be a evolutionist, because that makes you bias to your religion.
I suspect that you will continue to seke out nonsense from evolution apologist sites, because you know that you have a failikng position.
What is 0/1 and how is it different from 1/0, and how does this equate to measuring the fields of physics within black holes. Clue: Physics and the laws of relativity do not exist and function with black holes, which makes all your evolution theory just junk science.
There are no evolution lies that I know of. Please inform me as to what they may be.

It looks like you are a compleat idiot. All you have are various forms of lies. And why would a homophobic creatard adopt the user name of Oscar Wilde? Perhaps there is some truth to the claim that homophobes are battling the fact that they are gay themselves.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#79925 Mar 9, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Go ahead. Finish your foolish claim. We are waiting.
so .. are you admitting you are unaware of the third element ... Y/N ... then I will continue
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#79927 Mar 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
observed? where? Did scientists observe one species become another? You are making ridiculous claims now.
Not really. Let's say we have a group of birds called group A. Another called B, and another called C. A are American, C are European and B travels inbetween. Group A cannot reproduce with group C because there is too much genetic divergence between the two. Hence they are considered separate species. However group B is capable of breeding with both A and C, because they are genetically close to both.

But now we have a label problem. Do we say A and B are the same species because they can interbreed? Or do we put group B with C and call them a species? Or call them all separate species even though there is little difference between A to B, and B to C? This is precisely what evolution predicted, divergence which eventually leads to separate lineages.
Cybele wrote:
Evolution in bacteria (e. coli) did not make it non-bacteria. It's still a bacteria. lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_class...

Domain
Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

As you can see bacteria are representative of an entire biological domain. So why is it when presented with evidence of speciation you guys move the goalposts back by a factor of 7?

Could be worse. You could have been one of those dummies who say "Evolushun iz rong cuz Big Bang hahahahahaa!!!"

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#79928 Mar 9, 2013
your turn Subduction ..... go

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#79929 Mar 9, 2013
Why do creatards feel so threatened by evolution that they refuse to even learn what scientific evidence is?

Honest creationists are very few and far between. Honest creationists will admit that all of the scientific evidence is on the side of evolution, yet they still choose to believe in creation. That sort of honesty is a bit on the insane side, but at least I can respect them for telling the truth. Sadly we don't have any such creationists on this site.

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