Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#77913 Feb 28, 2013
LRS wrote:
Man only knows what he can see, or touch, or measure. He's locked in to his own limitations and he is inherently flawed. Who is to say Evolution was not planned? We're nothing in this universe and to think we know the answers is rather vain to say the least.
By calculating the chances we say it's not planned.
Unless you are going to tell me that also every extinction was planned.
Tomorrow let's go for the bees.
Good move, since that kills of most plants that provide our food, thus ultimately us.
But the earth does not care whether we live or die.
Some other species goes on or evolves from tried and tested methods. Just because they work and the biochemistry and environment is right.
Or we see 'adaptation to changing environment' allready in f.i. melanogaster and other one-day-flies(it's an expression) so some insect will take it's place that's less specialised.
Specialised would be like the wasp that used to have a symbiotic relation with the olive trees.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#77914 Mar 1, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Science denier, that is amusing. Actually, it's been going on for a 150 years, and you are the evidence of it.
And what the hell is a langolier?
No, don't answer. I'm sure it's just more proof of your hatred of humanity and total bigotry.
Do google, it's usefull.
And why should i hate humanity and be a bigot?

You don't understand evolution and that's the only message you are giving of for pages. And what the farmer does not know he won't eat. But most can't even read the bible properly but swallow it hook line and sinker anyway.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#77915 Mar 1, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Do google, it's usefull.
And why should i hate humanity and be a bigot?
You don't understand evolution and that's the only message you are giving of for pages. And what the farmer does not know he won't eat. But most can't even read the bible properly but swallow it hook line and sinker anyway.
By your own posts.

I understand evolution perfectly more than the general population by far. For one, it's not that complex. For another, it's not that mysterious. It is unusual in that intuition suggests that it is true, and yet not evidence in nature or biology confirm the model.

What? What the farmer does not know he won't eat? What the hell are you talking about? That is what I mean by bigotry, you obviously have very demeaning ideas about farmers.

Yes, humans are sometimes too trusting of other people's claims, and don't ask questions. Which is why there are bad Christians ... and bad people like you that take evolution on faith from other "authorities."

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#77916 Mar 1, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
By your own posts.
I understand evolution perfectly more than the general population by far. For one, it's not that complex. For another, it's not that mysterious. It is unusual in that intuition suggests that it is true, and yet not evidence in nature or biology confirm the model.
What? What the farmer does not know he won't eat? What the hell are you talking about? That is what I mean by bigotry, you obviously have very demeaning ideas about farmers.
Yes, humans are sometimes too trusting of other people's claims, and don't ask questions. Which is why there are bad Christians ... and bad people like you that take evolution on faith from other "authorities."
Ever tried herbal thee to wake up with.
It's an expression.
With general application. Usually people are ill at ease and will judge quickly in a negative tone when they do not understand a subject fully.

Scepticism is good as far as it goes together with education.

A statement about understanding evolution better than most would have to be proven.
If you talk about the general population you might maybe have a point. But sofar the gist has been that you see no point in any research since you can't find real-world application.(I could also say that who claims also needs to proof, but getting the gist sofar i'm generous. A real humanitarian.)
Talk about farmers, you want to improve yield, wel you start your evolutionary experiment untill you got what you want.
Or call the lab that specializes and order what you need.

You want a baby but do not want a fetus damaged in screening:
Over at Xconomy Luke Timmerman has a post up, Natera Joins Quest in Four-Way Battle for Prenatal Genetic Tests. Here are some important details:

The company uses the same basic instrument to analyze DNAIlluminas HiSeqbut it has been tailored differently to look for about 20,000 different single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in the moms blood sample. The workflow is pretty simplea clinician takes a blood sample from the mom, it gets shipped to Nateras centralized lab in San Carlos, CA, and results are sent back to the physician and patient in two weeks.



After meeting with executives from all four major players in the non-invasive prenatal genetic testing market, and many physicians at the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine meeting, JP Morgan analyst Tycho Peterson wrote that the market appears poised to take off.

In stark contrast to just a few years ago, NIPT [non-invasive prenatal genetic testing] is now widely understood and used by the maternal-fetal medicine community, which tends to be an early adopter of new technology and often sees high-risk patients, Peterson wrote in a note to clients Feb. 18. Still, he cautioned there are widely divergent views among physicians about the appropriate use of the technology, particularly on whether it should be expanded beyond high-risk pregnancies and into more mainstream usage.
.For readers of this weblog who are interested in this sort of thing I think the key to note is that it doesnt matter what your doctors views are, just find a doctor who will align themselves with your views. Youre paying for it, and you are going to raise your children, not them.

And by the way, 20,000 SNPs is a decent amount to work with if you got the raw data. It would be good enough probably for inferring the identity-by-descent from various grandparents and such.

----
just a few examples.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#77917 Mar 1, 2013
Time for my dayjob.
have a good one.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#77918 Mar 1, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Argument by authority?
In other words, logic fail ... again.
Sure, "professional" scientists support evolution. I never suggested otherwise.
But the actual application of the scientific principle does not support it. The model still doesn't work, and no amount of "professional" scientists can make a working model yet.
Got it? Good.
The scientific method/principle absolutely supports evolution.

You don't get to just make stuff up.

Well...you CAN.

But you're going to get called on it.

You are a liar and you know it.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#77919 Mar 1, 2013
ffff wrote:
If "extraterrestrials" were so "advanced" then WHY haven't they contacted us yet?
We haven't found a way to effect interstellar travel.
To get to the nearest solar system, we would need a fuel tank large and heavy enough to weigh the spacecraft down.
I hope there is a way, but there probably isn't.
And if anyone had any faith at all, they would realize that NOTHING is going to come and end the world until God decides it, and even THEN the world will never be destroyed utterly -- just the non-believers. After all, "the meek shall inherit the Earth" and Jesus will reign as King.
That leaves me out.
I don't realize that.
Also, why do so many planets CONTINUOUSLY get hit with meteors and asteroids while we just "happen" to get lucky, with maybe an occasional meteoroid grazing or hitting land (Which is probably a warning from GOD anyway)?
It put a stop to the dinosaurs.
How can you be so confident that it won't put a stop to us?
sickofit

Faribault, MN

#77920 Mar 1, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you ready to pave your own roads?
Maintain your own electrical grid?
Maintain your own water and sewage?
Eat rotten food?
I have 4x4 big truck and horses dont need road I have wind generator for all power and have massive garden and orchard and livestock..........I AM GOOD.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#77921 Mar 1, 2013
sickofit wrote:
<quoted text>
I have 4x4 big truck and horses dont need road I have wind generator for all power and have massive garden and orchard and livestock..........I AM GOOD.
Good for you.

You own a gas guzzler and don't need roads, electricity or plumbing.

You may not be aware of this, but most people rely on taxpayer supported infrastructure.

I'm sure you do, too, in ways that you just don't care to acknowledge.
sickofit

Faribault, MN

#77922 Mar 1, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Good for you.
You own a gas guzzler and don't need roads, electricity or plumbing.
You may not be aware of this, but most people rely on taxpayer supported infrastructure.
I'm sure you do, too, in ways that you just don't care to acknowledge.
Then most people will have to pay there own way..WOW WILD CONCEPT HUH.......

Oh and my truck runs on bio-diesel....so good there.....Oh and I have all the electricity I need. In fact I sell some back to elec. company. I need no one to pay my way...YOU SHOULD TRY IT.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#77923 Mar 1, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
This is an Evolution v. Creation discussion, not a theological discussion on beliefs.
I make no claim. And I support neither evolution or creation, and neither has any scientific evidence, and all data is subject to alternative interpretations.
That was a response to a claim made on this PUBLIC thread, I supplied data on the number of religious cults that rile under the banner of christianity and I asked for evidence of YOUR claim that and I quote :-
You are deliberately, and with dishonesty, mixing "religion" and "cult" into the same sentence, as if they are interchangeable
no evidence has been forthcoming to backup your claim so we assume that your claim was bogus and I shows that the term religion and cult are interchangeable at least 38,000 times so we assume your claim was bogus.

There are reams and reams of scientific evidence, the photo I use in my avatar is one such evidence.

A simple search for scholarly articles on Google for evidence for evolution list around 1.5 million such evidences, many of which are valid scientific documents
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...

The same search on Google proper lists around 117 million sites, some of which show academic/scientific research.

My hobby is researching into some of that evidence, particularly in Europe over a time span of the last 40,000 years, I have personally to my own satisfaction verified a little of that evidence. So please do not lie by telling me that there is no scientific evidence, the evidence is there, I have seen it.

The alternative (goddidit) is not scientific, it is not documented as scientific. It relies on nothing but guesswork in the form of the evidence contradicts my belief that goddidit so I guess the evidence is wrong even though I have no evidence to the contrary and deliberate ignorance in the form of I dont want to understand anything so goddidit

However I challenge you to produce a link to any valid scientific project that shows that alternative as a contender for fact.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#77924 Mar 1, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
We haven't found a way to effect interstellar travel.
To get to the nearest solar system, we would need a fuel tank large and heavy enough to weigh the spacecraft down.
I hope there is a way, but there probably isn't.
<quoted text>
That leaves me out.
I don't realize that.
<quoted text>
It put a stop to the dinosaurs.
How can you be so confident that it won't put a stop to us?
Our atmosphere protects us from some 40,000 tons per day of debris from space.

Have you seen the recent meteor explosion over Russia? A meteor half a football field long exploded in an air burst 12 miles up and caused some $33 million dollars worth of damage and injured thousands, mostly by flying glass.

People who sit on their asses (or pray on their knees) waiting for god to save us are going to be in for a shock when the next one reaches the ground in the middle of a large city.

Some 44% of AMERICANS would welcome a mushroom cloud in NYC as a sign of Jesus' return.

These same people believe that someday god will reverse all the laws of physics and turn this world into a permanent paradise. Why bother maintaining it now? If we all just get on our knees and pray REAL hard, god will do it for us.

Sorry folks. We're on our own. And our ultimate survival as a species will one day rely on our being able to leave this planet en masse and live in space.

This planet and our life giving sun are by no means eternal. Paradise is a child's dream.

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#77925 Mar 1, 2013
sickofit wrote:
<quoted text>
Then most people will have to pay there own way..WOW WILD CONCEPT HUH.......
Oh and my truck runs on bio-diesel....so good there.....Oh and I have all the electricity I need. In fact I sell some back to elec. company. I need no one to pay my way...YOU SHOULD TRY IT.
I would if I could practically afford it.

Do you honestly believe that 7 BILLION people can do that?

Especially with big oil fighting all forms of renewable energy tooth and nail?

“I see quantum effects”

Level 2

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#77926 Mar 1, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That was a response to a claim made on this PUBLIC thread, I supplied data on the number of religious cults that rile under the banner of christianity and I asked for evidence of YOUR claim that and I quote :-
You are deliberately, and with dishonesty, mixing "religion" and "cult" into the same sentence, as if they are interchangeable
no evidence has been forthcoming to backup your claim so we assume that your claim was bogus and I shows that the term religion and cult are interchangeable at least 38,000 times so we assume your claim was bogus.
There are reams and reams of scientific evidence, the photo I use in my avatar is one such evidence.
A simple search for scholarly articles on Google for evidence for evolution list around 1.5 million such evidences, many of which are valid scientific documents
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...
The same search on Google proper lists around 117 million sites, some of which show academic/scientific research.
My hobby is researching into some of that evidence, particularly in Europe over a time span of the last 40,000 years, I have personally to my own satisfaction verified a little of that evidence. So please do not lie by telling me that there is no scientific evidence, the evidence is there, I have seen it.
The alternative (goddidit) is not scientific, it is not documented as scientific. It relies on nothing but guesswork in the form of the evidence contradicts my belief that goddidit so I guess the evidence is wrong even though I have no evidence to the contrary and deliberate ignorance in the form of I dont want to understand anything so goddidit
However I challenge you to produce a link to any valid scientific project that shows that alternative as a contender for fact.
Google frightens creationists and IDers.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#77927 Mar 1, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
"One of the simplest and best proofs that evolution is a joke, is the FACT that there is NO recorded history prior to 4,000 B.C. The world's history is CLEARY defined by SIX world powers since time began: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Since Rome's fall in 476 A.D., there have been no world-powers (many super-powers; but, no world-powers). At the time of Moses, Egypt ruled the world. The Israelites were used as slave labor by Pharaoh to build the pyramids. Before Egypt, there is absolutely nothing recorded in history about a world-power.
It is NO coincidence that Revelation 17:10 speaks of these world-powers, "...five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." At the writing of Revelation, Rome was still a world-power. The Apostle John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us that Rome is the 6th world-power, and there is one more to come. The 7th world-power will be the beast system, the kingdom of the antichrist. This diabolical New World Order is quickly forming now (i.e., a universal religious view, global centralized government, a one-world economic system, a cashless society, etc.).
Do you think it's a mere coincidence that the Word of God is so concise on world history? The Bible records the beginning of mankind at about 4,000 B.C., and secular history is eerily silent before 4,000 B.C. for those who claim to believe in evolution. If I were an evolutionist, I would be extremely disturbed by this FACT. Prove me wrong! I dare you. I triple-dog dare you to show me any recorded civilization before 4,000 B.C. And I don't mean some pottery jug or item that you claim is 14,000 years old--Show me any evidence of civilization prior to 4,000 B.C. You cannot. In fact, it is difficult to find much recorded history before 2,500 B.C., because the flood of Noah's day destroyed most of it.
How can evolutionists be so naive and foolish as to totally ignore this incredibly obvious fact? There is NO recorded history prior to 4,000 B.C., no writings, no carved stones, no battles, no wars, no countries, no nothing! It's as if mankind just suddenly began (which is exactly what the Bible teaches happened). God created man out of the dirt, the elements, of the earth. "
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%2520...
It is no coincidence that recording of "the Word of God" coincides with the development of written language.

BTW, there was no flood.
sickofit

Faribault, MN

#77928 Mar 1, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
I would if I could practically afford it.
Do you honestly believe that 7 BILLION people can do that?
Especially with big oil fighting all forms of renewable energy tooth and nail?
No I dont...Time to thin the herd anyway. The world is like over populated by about half again as much as we can deal with..Time for the weak and worthless to die off.....If the USA got rid of the 40-60 million on government aid our nation would be in much better shape..HAVE TO PRUNE THE TREE TO MAKE IT HEALTHY...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#77929 Mar 1, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Duh!!
The point pin head is why did man start recording history at the same time the Bible says he created man?
Because he learned to WRITE! Sheesh!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#77930 Mar 1, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
It's just a Coincidence! Billions of years and your millions years old theory wrote nothing until Adam walked the earth.
You are quite the believe in your faith.
Really? And what did Adam write?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#77931 Mar 1, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheela-na-Gig as in before you could establish a church you needed permission from the local Lady, hence also the outspoken sexual imagery on churches. The womb is declared open.
They removed this imagery not so long ago, but about two generation have grown up entirely clueless of the tradition that no church could be built or established without the local mistress permission!
Christine if you have some interesting reading material then i'm a welcome receiver.
And it drives Langoliers with his holier than though, but don't know the bible really attitude, up the pole.;p
I dont have anything on Sheela-na-Gig except from the internet

This is not a particularly pretty site but it is quite in depth http://www.sheelanagig.org/index.html

There are still plenty of churches in Europe particularly eastern Europe and Ireland with the carvings

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#77932 Mar 1, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Google frightens creationists and IDers.
Facts always do

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