Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 159,585
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#76234 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I will not blame you over this response, spirituality or simply spiritual matters is/ are not your strong suit.
If by that you mean that _I_ still don't believe in YOUR hallucinations, you're right.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76237 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
oh nice that's another lie! Have you no shame!
Irony meter go boooooooom.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76238 Feb 16, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
KA-BOOM! and the universe and all life emerges to form what Einstein called a ordered comphrehensible universe. From an explosion?..ha...ha,ha,.....ha ,ha,ha,Dude you've got a career in comedy on the horizon, or a stay in the nut house .
Not an "explosion", but an expansion of space-time. Keep in mind the words you ascribe to Einstein here are subjective. Also keep in mind that even Einstein could be wrong, such as his ideas about a steady-state universe.

By the way, if the universe was "comprehensible", then how come that no-one on the planet knows for definite how it started?

All I did was point out that at LEAST up until the point of singularity, the Big Bang is the ONLY scientific theory that makes successful scientific predictions based upon observable phenomena, such as predicting background radiation levels at approx 3 parts per million.

In fact when I say it's the only scientific theory that makes such predictions, not only that, it's the only theory in town.

I ain't seen YOU come up with anything better.(shrug)

And considering your extreme lack of education it's extremely likely that you ever will.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76239 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
No your FSM is a myth God is real.
Now this will cause you pain because you understand the repercussion of the meaning to you of a real God. Good luck with that.
Ah, the good old fundamentalist revenge fantasy. You must be one of them "true Christians" we keep hearing about.

Fact is, the FSM is every bit as valid as your god. Both concepts are non-falsifiable.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76240 Feb 16, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yes, the city of Jerusalem, Rome, Herod and Pontious Pilate (who are documents, historical roman rulers of judea), the persecution of the early believers, which is documented, etc all worthless un substantiated myth!
Well quite possibly, yeah.(shrug)


Historical scholars are divided over whether or not Jesus actually existed. Keep in mind there are NO contemporary historical documents of Jesus' existence, and the first writings did not occur until around 93AD, nearly 60 years after his alleged death.

Some scholars think there was a real preacher whom which around the stories were created. Others think Jesus was a myth.

And as I said previously, that even if there was a guy called Jesus going around performing all sorts of magic tricks all over the Middle East all it would prove is that some guy was going around that had superpowers. It would NOT be evidence of an invisible Jewish wizard existing in some sort of multiverse. Your Jesus could easy have been a mutant or an alien from Krypton.

And I don't think you wanna start making claims about archaeology since in that area the Egyptians have you beat. By miles. All hail Ra.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76241 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Not only Herod many other biblical characters have been verified archaeologically.
Others not yet discovered can not make the bible to be false.
The bible once again, is real!
I pointed out to you the Egyptians got you beat. That was 6 months ago. Here you are again repeating the same lie.

Fact. There was no global flood. No Noah. No Adam and Eve. No talking lizards. No talking donkeys. And the Earth is DEFINITELY not flat.

So just because it got Herod right doesn't mean that other parts have not been falsified. Even the priesthood have known this for nearly 400 years.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76242 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Dead wrong!
Actually you have no basis from which to say science is wrong. Your position is invisible Jewmagic. So even if science WAS wrong - which it isn't, and you CERTAINLY lack the education to demonstrate such - we could also invoke magic and the claims would be JUST as equal to yours.

You can't win. Ever. The best you could ever get is a stalemate.

You may as well go home.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76243 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Point of correction, English is official to my country, we are well educated far and wide even more than your folks over there.
Most of my patriots, in the UK and US alone, tends to do better than their English, British and American counterparts.
By Educationist, i meant trained Teacher or Professional in the field of Education( Teaching, Lecturing, Examining and Supervising, etc).
Then I pity your students...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76244 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And again, like i earlier said, your educational background in Government and History is zero( nought).
I have asked you before, why colonialism? due to poor foundation in the above subjects you could not.
Now, despite the negative nature of colonialism, there are some good, they are:
Schools, Research centres, Linguistic or language studies, etc, which were not really free. A good example is, Harvard, Yale, Queen's college, etc.
Bub, YOUR education in history is zero.

That's why you favour apologetics instead of scholarship.

So either you know a lot about history and are just lying about it, or you're lying about your history education.

Either way, you're dishonest. But then most of us around here already know you're just another typical liar for Jesus.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76245 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong!
Are you trying to discredit Newton?
Give me one inventions in your credit, you foul liar?
I'm not trying to discredit Newton. Einstein already did that. I'm not saying his scientific work was unimportant however. But then I DO have the benefit of hindsight and historical knowledge. YOU on the other hand DON'T.

So was Newton's theory of gravity accurate? NO. Not a lie. As demonstrated by:

1 - the orbit of Mercury which is inconsistent with Newton's theory.

2 - Einstein's theory of relativity, which was in turn superseded by:

3 - quantum mechanics.

And I also wasn't lying when I pointed out that Francis Collins and Ken Miller are scientists who are Christian, AND who accept evolution.

Unlike you Chuck, I did not lie.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76246 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Foul!
All true Christians teaches and preaches, the tenets or precepts of the bible( God and Jesus Christ).
Dogen is a follower of Zen and a Budhist.
I know him better than you.

Simple fact is that if ALL "true" Christians were reality-denying nutjob creationists like yourself, "true" Christianity would no longer be the most popular religion in the world.

An inconvenient fact you like to conveniently leave out when quoting numbers in regards to Christianity's popularity.

Because you're a typical creationist liar for Jesus.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76247 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Give me three archaeological evidence for Harry Porter?
The Dude wrote:
Charing Cross Road, King's Cross Station (both in London), and Egypt.
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Like i said, you are a liar. We are not talking about places but people or characters.
Actually as you can see above YOU are lying and I am NOT. You made NO mention of people or characters but ARCHAEOLOGICAL evidence for Harry Potter. You asked for three, I gave them to you.

Now you are moving the goalposts, just as good little liars for Jesus always do when confronted by inconvenient facts.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Most novels, plays, etc, always talks about real places.
Arms and the man, A tale of two cities, Oliver Twist, Macbeth, etc, talked about real places.
Bingo. EXACTLY the point. Sherlock Holmes novels also mentioned real places. His house is actually a real address in London.

And there's this other novel you may have heard of about some groovy preacher fella, called Jesus. The novel is also known as... THE BIBLE.
Charles Idemi wrote:
What ?
I am telling him to give me 3 characters that archaeology has verified in Harry Porter since he has been comparing it with the bible.
No, you did not mention CHARACTERS until AFTER your three pieces of archaelogical EVIDENCE was PROVIDED. You then moved the goalposts and NOW want evidence of the PEOPLE mentioned in those books.

The Bible mentioned Jesus. There is NO CONTEMPORARY archaelogical evidence of his existence. The first writings did not come until SIXTY YEARS LATER. Herod was a real guy. So was Pontius Pilate, but as we have now established his writings allegedly confirming Jesus have been falsified.

Sherlock Holmes novels also mentioned the Queen and the Prime Minister. But they're still just novels.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Are you supporting him, Willy?
No, he's saying your actions are un-Christian. And if I didn't know fundies all too well, I would agree.
Charles Idemi wrote:
What are the evolutionist in the name of science always trying to do?
Answer those questions honestly.
They are NOT trying to falsify (a) God. Non-scientific concepts can't be falsified. And evolution makes NO theological claims. Hence why some Christians, scientists included ACCEPT evolution. FACT.

Sorry if you don't like it.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76248 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"Archaeologists have also been unable to find evidence in Egypt for a million+ Hebrews living in or leaving Egypt at any time."
We can't seem to find the rock that provided the last missing mineral to the primordial soup that created life either.
Go figure!
It's okay, we already have geological evidence that the first recorded organisms were bacterial/microbial in nature.

Either way though, it still has no bearing on the scientific theory of evolution. Of which we have TONS of evidence. In fact there's nothing in biology yet that falsifies common ancestry.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76249 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Read the bible book of Genesis.
Sorry, but that doesn't tell us HOW.

What's more, if you had READ Genesis you would KNOW this.

"Goddidit with magic" is a WHO, not a HOW. And it's a claim based on no evidence.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76250 Feb 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it is most likely we are in a computor simulation. It would explain why there are no waves, that would result from a big bang.
Waves in what?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76251 Feb 16, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Will three historical references do the trick?
Nicolas Flammel (c. 1330-1418) was a French scrivener.
Legend shrouded Flammel with supernatural powers by people living in the Seventeenth Century, not by J. K. Rowling.
Paracelsus (1493-1541) was a German Swiss astrologer.
Henry Cornelius Agrippa (1486-1535) was a German astrologer and alchemist.
All three historical figures are mentioned in the Harry Potter books.
You say that if King Herod was an actual person, that proves that the entire Bible is true?
Then if Flamel, Paracelsus, and Agrippa were actual people, why doesn't that prove that the Harry Potter novels are true?
Thanks for that. Since I haven't read any Harry Potter there was no way I was gonna know if she mentioned actual historical people.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76252 Feb 16, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
"Back on topic, if evolution is false why are so many genes homologous between a human being and a rabbit for example? Why is it that we are able to grow human recombinant proteins in e. coli bacteria?"
The answer is that simply we are made of the same building blocks as anything else in this self sustaining ecosystem. I would be surprise if there were not genes that are homologous. In creationism, everything is made the same way, the only thing that differentiates life from non life in creationism is that God breathed life into living creatures. We agree that physically we are a creation, the same as animals, why then would there NOT be homologous genes? Such is necessary for survival on earth. Goodness, such a shallow argument! There are even millions of beneficial bacteria living in us that also provide the same benefits in animals. Nothing is different or exceptional about the physical body of man except that god breathed life into him.
You are claiming common design. Also known as taking credit for evolution after the fact. There are a number of problems with your position:

Similarities due to inherited DNA from parents is evolution scientifically observed. DNA is therefore a biological record and measure of how closely related all life is to each other. Therefore creationists require an arbitrary barrier to prevent evolution from going too far, which is why so many creationists find Young Earth Creationism attractive. YECism is pure denial of reality.

But then, denial of evolution is also pure denial of reality.(shrug)

Also, ONLY evolution predicts nested hierarchies. For example, evolution can predict on the likelihood of organisms such as centaurs, mermaids, pegasus, sphinxes, or organisms with feathers and three middle-ear bones. Yet ALL of those are making use of common components found elsewhere in nature. So why can't God make them? Why can't God make horses with wings? Or pigs with compound eyes? Common design, right? If God CAN make these things then creationism makes NO predictions about homology, genes, common design - because God can do what it likes. A world with Centaurs? God just made it that way. A world without Centaurs? Then God just made it that way. It's scientifically useless. No scientific predictions can be made in regards to biological phenomena. Evolution predicts fossils of these are possible because it would be a violation of nested hierarchies. Surely God is not so limited?

On the other hand, if God DID use "common design", AND was limited only to nested hierarchies, then that leads to another problem. Common design is used ONLY to save on both time and resources. Something an eternal all-powerful creator has an infinite supply of. Therefore if God is limited by nested hierarchies then I would like to know exactly what other limits it has and how all God's limits were determined in an objective manner via the scientific method. This would be quite difficult since there is currently no way to scientifically verify that such an entity even exists.

There may or may not be a God. But if it did, it used evolution.

Or God is a liar.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76253 Feb 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong on two levels. First you did not pick one of the supplied answers. It seems that you meant to pick C. You might have missed my second post where I specifically said the Commandments carved into stone.
I guess Langoliers does not know his Bible. I will see if he gets the correct answer the second time around.
Hey, if you say the Bible allows A, B, C or D, can't Lango say "E"???

What kinda silly rule is that?!?

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76254 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Hence the insults. But actually can any insult or disprove God? no one!
Chuck, how many times do I have to tell you that we are under no obligation to falsify non-falsifiable non-scientific concepts?

Are you being dishonest (again) or are you just demonstrating your daftness (again)?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76255 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> These people were mentioned based on permissions from them or their families.
Can you provide evidence of this? Can you also provide evidence that it's even necessary?
Charles Idemi wrote:
There are no archaeological confirmations for Harry Porter unlike the Bible.
You're lying. I gave them to you. You moved the goalposts and demanded historical people instead of historical places. He gave them to you. There ARE archaeological confirmations of Harry Potter, JUST as you demanded we provide.

In short, you're a big fat hypocritical dishonest typical fundie liar for Jesus.

And you know it.

By the way, the Egyptians still got you beat.

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