Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 164306 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76244 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And again, like i earlier said, your educational background in Government and History is zero( nought).
I have asked you before, why colonialism? due to poor foundation in the above subjects you could not.
Now, despite the negative nature of colonialism, there are some good, they are:
Schools, Research centres, Linguistic or language studies, etc, which were not really free. A good example is, Harvard, Yale, Queen's college, etc.
Bub, YOUR education in history is zero.

That's why you favour apologetics instead of scholarship.

So either you know a lot about history and are just lying about it, or you're lying about your history education.

Either way, you're dishonest. But then most of us around here already know you're just another typical liar for Jesus.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76245 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong!
Are you trying to discredit Newton?
Give me one inventions in your credit, you foul liar?
I'm not trying to discredit Newton. Einstein already did that. I'm not saying his scientific work was unimportant however. But then I DO have the benefit of hindsight and historical knowledge. YOU on the other hand DON'T.

So was Newton's theory of gravity accurate? NO. Not a lie. As demonstrated by:

1 - the orbit of Mercury which is inconsistent with Newton's theory.

2 - Einstein's theory of relativity, which was in turn superseded by:

3 - quantum mechanics.

And I also wasn't lying when I pointed out that Francis Collins and Ken Miller are scientists who are Christian, AND who accept evolution.

Unlike you Chuck, I did not lie.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76246 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Foul!
All true Christians teaches and preaches, the tenets or precepts of the bible( God and Jesus Christ).
Dogen is a follower of Zen and a Budhist.
I know him better than you.

Simple fact is that if ALL "true" Christians were reality-denying nutjob creationists like yourself, "true" Christianity would no longer be the most popular religion in the world.

An inconvenient fact you like to conveniently leave out when quoting numbers in regards to Christianity's popularity.

Because you're a typical creationist liar for Jesus.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76247 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Give me three archaeological evidence for Harry Porter?
The Dude wrote:
Charing Cross Road, King's Cross Station (both in London), and Egypt.
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Like i said, you are a liar. We are not talking about places but people or characters.
Actually as you can see above YOU are lying and I am NOT. You made NO mention of people or characters but ARCHAEOLOGICAL evidence for Harry Potter. You asked for three, I gave them to you.

Now you are moving the goalposts, just as good little liars for Jesus always do when confronted by inconvenient facts.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Most novels, plays, etc, always talks about real places.
Arms and the man, A tale of two cities, Oliver Twist, Macbeth, etc, talked about real places.
Bingo. EXACTLY the point. Sherlock Holmes novels also mentioned real places. His house is actually a real address in London.

And there's this other novel you may have heard of about some groovy preacher fella, called Jesus. The novel is also known as... THE BIBLE.
Charles Idemi wrote:
What ?
I am telling him to give me 3 characters that archaeology has verified in Harry Porter since he has been comparing it with the bible.
No, you did not mention CHARACTERS until AFTER your three pieces of archaelogical EVIDENCE was PROVIDED. You then moved the goalposts and NOW want evidence of the PEOPLE mentioned in those books.

The Bible mentioned Jesus. There is NO CONTEMPORARY archaelogical evidence of his existence. The first writings did not come until SIXTY YEARS LATER. Herod was a real guy. So was Pontius Pilate, but as we have now established his writings allegedly confirming Jesus have been falsified.

Sherlock Holmes novels also mentioned the Queen and the Prime Minister. But they're still just novels.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Are you supporting him, Willy?
No, he's saying your actions are un-Christian. And if I didn't know fundies all too well, I would agree.
Charles Idemi wrote:
What are the evolutionist in the name of science always trying to do?
Answer those questions honestly.
They are NOT trying to falsify (a) God. Non-scientific concepts can't be falsified. And evolution makes NO theological claims. Hence why some Christians, scientists included ACCEPT evolution. FACT.

Sorry if you don't like it.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76248 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"Archaeologists have also been unable to find evidence in Egypt for a million+ Hebrews living in or leaving Egypt at any time."
We can't seem to find the rock that provided the last missing mineral to the primordial soup that created life either.
Go figure!
It's okay, we already have geological evidence that the first recorded organisms were bacterial/microbial in nature.

Either way though, it still has no bearing on the scientific theory of evolution. Of which we have TONS of evidence. In fact there's nothing in biology yet that falsifies common ancestry.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76249 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Read the bible book of Genesis.
Sorry, but that doesn't tell us HOW.

What's more, if you had READ Genesis you would KNOW this.

"Goddidit with magic" is a WHO, not a HOW. And it's a claim based on no evidence.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76250 Feb 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it is most likely we are in a computor simulation. It would explain why there are no waves, that would result from a big bang.
Waves in what?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76251 Feb 16, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Will three historical references do the trick?
Nicolas Flammel (c. 1330-1418) was a French scrivener.
Legend shrouded Flammel with supernatural powers by people living in the Seventeenth Century, not by J. K. Rowling.
Paracelsus (1493-1541) was a German Swiss astrologer.
Henry Cornelius Agrippa (1486-1535) was a German astrologer and alchemist.
All three historical figures are mentioned in the Harry Potter books.
You say that if King Herod was an actual person, that proves that the entire Bible is true?
Then if Flamel, Paracelsus, and Agrippa were actual people, why doesn't that prove that the Harry Potter novels are true?
Thanks for that. Since I haven't read any Harry Potter there was no way I was gonna know if she mentioned actual historical people.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76252 Feb 16, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
"Back on topic, if evolution is false why are so many genes homologous between a human being and a rabbit for example? Why is it that we are able to grow human recombinant proteins in e. coli bacteria?"
The answer is that simply we are made of the same building blocks as anything else in this self sustaining ecosystem. I would be surprise if there were not genes that are homologous. In creationism, everything is made the same way, the only thing that differentiates life from non life in creationism is that God breathed life into living creatures. We agree that physically we are a creation, the same as animals, why then would there NOT be homologous genes? Such is necessary for survival on earth. Goodness, such a shallow argument! There are even millions of beneficial bacteria living in us that also provide the same benefits in animals. Nothing is different or exceptional about the physical body of man except that god breathed life into him.
You are claiming common design. Also known as taking credit for evolution after the fact. There are a number of problems with your position:

Similarities due to inherited DNA from parents is evolution scientifically observed. DNA is therefore a biological record and measure of how closely related all life is to each other. Therefore creationists require an arbitrary barrier to prevent evolution from going too far, which is why so many creationists find Young Earth Creationism attractive. YECism is pure denial of reality.

But then, denial of evolution is also pure denial of reality.(shrug)

Also, ONLY evolution predicts nested hierarchies. For example, evolution can predict on the likelihood of organisms such as centaurs, mermaids, pegasus, sphinxes, or organisms with feathers and three middle-ear bones. Yet ALL of those are making use of common components found elsewhere in nature. So why can't God make them? Why can't God make horses with wings? Or pigs with compound eyes? Common design, right? If God CAN make these things then creationism makes NO predictions about homology, genes, common design - because God can do what it likes. A world with Centaurs? God just made it that way. A world without Centaurs? Then God just made it that way. It's scientifically useless. No scientific predictions can be made in regards to biological phenomena. Evolution predicts fossils of these are possible because it would be a violation of nested hierarchies. Surely God is not so limited?

On the other hand, if God DID use "common design", AND was limited only to nested hierarchies, then that leads to another problem. Common design is used ONLY to save on both time and resources. Something an eternal all-powerful creator has an infinite supply of. Therefore if God is limited by nested hierarchies then I would like to know exactly what other limits it has and how all God's limits were determined in an objective manner via the scientific method. This would be quite difficult since there is currently no way to scientifically verify that such an entity even exists.

There may or may not be a God. But if it did, it used evolution.

Or God is a liar.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76253 Feb 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong on two levels. First you did not pick one of the supplied answers. It seems that you meant to pick C. You might have missed my second post where I specifically said the Commandments carved into stone.
I guess Langoliers does not know his Bible. I will see if he gets the correct answer the second time around.
Hey, if you say the Bible allows A, B, C or D, can't Lango say "E"???

What kinda silly rule is that?!?

:-/
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76254 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Hence the insults. But actually can any insult or disprove God? no one!
Chuck, how many times do I have to tell you that we are under no obligation to falsify non-falsifiable non-scientific concepts?

Are you being dishonest (again) or are you just demonstrating your daftness (again)?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76255 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> These people were mentioned based on permissions from them or their families.
Can you provide evidence of this? Can you also provide evidence that it's even necessary?
Charles Idemi wrote:
There are no archaeological confirmations for Harry Porter unlike the Bible.
You're lying. I gave them to you. You moved the goalposts and demanded historical people instead of historical places. He gave them to you. There ARE archaeological confirmations of Harry Potter, JUST as you demanded we provide.

In short, you're a big fat hypocritical dishonest typical fundie liar for Jesus.

And you know it.

By the way, the Egyptians still got you beat.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76256 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I will not blame you over this response, spirituality or simply spiritual matters is/ are not your strong suit.
When it comes to spiritual matters there's no such thing as right or wrong. No-one's religious opinions are any better than anyone else's, period.
Charles Idemi wrote:
Do you believe in the law of Karma or Retribution?
Even the bible said so, " the wicked shall never go un punished ".
Many people have lied using the name of God as a cover or shield.
Yup. You included.

That's why you lie all the time.

Because you're just another fundie with a monumentally massive ego who thinks that you can lie as much as you like and God will give you a get out of jail free card.

This is why fundamentalist morality is an oxymoron.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76257 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I have been observing your perversive comments. Now listen and listen very good, humans only take charge while on earth, for just a definite period, but after that, death and judgement.
God has his own ways of dealing with us all.
If you really believed that I'd advise you to start paying attention to the 9th Commandment...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76258 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Subtles, i would say that is your own level of ignorance. You or any one else, can not disprove the existence of God.
You cannot disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And you know this. That's why you didn't even try.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76259 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Answer the question, how did the universe came into existence or form?
I want a vivid or clear response in English.
No you don't.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76260 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Foul!
That is a dishonest comments from you, i knew what he meant, but i decided to let him know some certain things beyond his memory.
It's not a dishonest comment from him.

EVERYTHING is beyond your memory because any fact which is inconvenient is automatically deleted from Chuck's mind.

You wanted VALID archaeological evidence of Harry Potter.

You claimed real places backed up the Bible and so were provided with real places that backed up Harry Potter.

Then you claimed that you asked for PEOPLE even though you DID NOT.

Then you were GIVEN archaeological evidence of people that backed up Harry Potter.

You then LIED YOUR BIG FAT AZZ OFF and said that all this evidence was insufficient, even though it is JUST as valid as YOUR evidence for the Bible.

I also pointed out to you 6 MONTHS AGO that the Egyptians STILL outweigh the Bible with archaeological evidence, including both places AND people.

You have since wiped it from your memory just like you always do.

Just like you did when you started talking about Roman historians backing up Jesus even though we've demonstrated that they do not. MANY MANY times over on THIS very thread.

Why do you fundies always lie so much, Chuck?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76261 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And again, others do worship this God through gods, goddesses, mediums, etc.
God is just one, others are minors.
Your claims are baseless. You have no way of knowing if Vishnu is in fact the real big daddy.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76262 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
What does Richard Dawkins, a mortal, understood about the origin of the universe?
Not much, since he's a biologist and not a cosmologist.

And I bet he still knows a trillion times more than you.

Other than how to speak English, the education you've demonstrated thus far on this thread is less than zero.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#76263 Feb 16, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
It might 'appear' to be flat at this time, with current scientific understanding...the same as the earth was consider flat at one time but was later discarded...
Never the less...why aren't the obvious intrinsic intelligent processes that govern the Universe never addressed by science?
Because they aren't obvious.

That's why you can't demonstrate them.

Neither can the scientific community.
xxxooxxx wrote:
These processes are the very foundation in the belief in God.
But yet, science refuses to look at the actual processes behind the Universe...
Ah, so you are aware of SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVABLE AND VERIFIABLE processes which the ENTIRE scientific community does NOT?

Interesting.

Please elaborate.
xxxooxxx wrote:
Science just calls these processes "natural" ("Existing in or caused by nature")but never really questions the actual processes directly.
Why?
They do question them all the time.

YOU are the one who claims there are OTHER processes which they are somehow unaware of.

Yet somehow you always FAIL to point them out.

Did you forget that I asked you a ton of times over to present us with evidence of IDC and all you did was point me to things that humans made?

And yet you still haven't appeared to understand the problem you have...

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