Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#76178 Feb 15, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Below find a link to a paper that has the clearest exposition of the Tower of Babel I have ever found.
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebran...
There is no doubt that the story is false....it has been proven to be so.
Bravo! Referencing anything having to do with Westminster theological seminary is sincerely appreciated and respected by me.
The article is indeed fascinating well thought out.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#76179 Feb 15, 2013
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Which theologians date the tower of babel at 2200 - 2000 bc? No they were not "grunting" They had thier own languages. Ever really study that mummy they found in the snow a few years ago? Curious thing, they found evidence that he was a multicultural and probably multilingual trapper and trader. The story of the tower of babel is not contradicted by evidence that there were multiple languages and cultures, it provides an explanation for it.
By the way, why do we so often just assume that populations that existed eons ago were less cultured, smart or sophisticated than us? That mummy they found in the ice?, that multicultural polymath that he probably was, was infinitely more sophisticated than most modern men.
You mean Otzi the Iceman in the Alps?

"A group of scientists have sequenced Ötzi's full genome and the report was published on 28 February 2012. The Y-DNA of Ötzi belongs to a subclade of G defined by the SNPs M201, P287, P15, L223 and L91 (G-L91, ISOGG G2a2b, former "G2a4"). He was not typed for any of the subclades downstreaming from G-L91. G-L91 is now mostly found in South Corsica.

Analysis of his mitochondrial DNA has shown that Ötzi belongs to the K1 subclade, but cannot be categorized into any of the three modern branches of that subclade (K1a, K1b or K1c). The new subclade has provisionally been named K1ö for Ötzi.[32] Multiplex assay study was able to confirm that the Iceman's mtDNA belongs to a new European mtDNA clade with a very limited distribution amongst modern data sets.

By autosomal DNA he is most closely related to southern Europeans, particularly geographically isolated populations of Sardinia and Corsica.

DNA analysis also showed him at high risk of atherosclerosis, lactose intolerance, and the presence of the DNA sequence of Borrelia burgdorferi, making him the earliest known human with Lyme disease.

A 2012 paper by paleoanthropologist John Hawks suggests that Ötzi had a higher degree of Neanderthal ancestry than modern Europeans".
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi

Hmmm....high degree of Neanderthal ancestry. Veeerry interesting.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76180 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I remember the thread title. I took it as an invitation to debate.
I while away the odd idle hour pointing out why Evolution (supported by rational, scientific, demonstrable data) works.
And why "Goddidit", supported by nothing but the assertion, doesn't.
Science works.
Doesn't give a sh!t what you believe, Charles.
Hence the insults. But actually can any insult or disprove God? no one!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76181 Feb 15, 2013
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>So you would rather rely on strangers for your information than to search it out for yourself when you have access to the one tool that can bring it to you directlty?? Oh wait... you're a 'believer' which means having your thinking done for you is par for the course.
A question for you. Can any humans create a natural brain of human beings, yes or no?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#76182 Feb 15, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Hence the insults. But actually can any insult or disprove God? no one!
Once again Chuckles, it is up to the person making the POSITIVE claim to provide evidence for their beliefs. If none is given the null hypothesis says there is no reason to believe him.

You know that would be true if I made claims about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You know that you cannot disprove the existence of his Holy Pasticity. It is also a ridiculous challenge.

Come on, prove the nonexistence of the FSM, I dare you to.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76183 Feb 15, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor have I seen evidence of the Almighty.
<quoted text>
Yup. And lying in the graveyards and crematoriums next to we non-believers and skeptics will be the pious and self-sanctimonious Christians.
Ofcourse no arguments, every one will die, but no one whether powerful or not, can stop the work of God.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76184 Feb 15, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Will three historical references do the trick?
Nicolas Flammel (c. 1330-1418) was a French scrivener.
Legend shrouded Flammel with supernatural powers by people living in the Seventeenth Century, not by J. K. Rowling.
Paracelsus (1493-1541) was a German Swiss astrologer.
Henry Cornelius Agrippa (1486-1535) was a German astrologer and alchemist.
All three historical figures are mentioned in the Harry Potter books.
You say that if King Herod was an actual person, that proves that the entire Bible is true?
Then if Flamel, Paracelsus, and Agrippa were actual people, why doesn't that prove that the Harry Potter novels are true?
These people were mentioned based on permissions from them or their families. There are no archaeological confirmations for Harry Porter unlike the Bible.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76185 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Huh. I guess I'd better not refer to Maggie Thatcher next time I write someth...
Ooops.
There are differences between books for sale and ordinary books for relaxation.
Projects, seminars and thesis, can name or quote any authority without their permissions.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76186 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I have.
Claims that he did it - doesn't say how.
That was my question.
I will not blame you over this response, spirituality or simply spiritual matters is/ are not your strong suit.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76187 Feb 15, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would that God of yours sponsor/condone slavery.
Why would that same God stand around and let the 'Only True Church' kill many many thousands of humans in the witch hunts and Inquisitions?
Do you believe in the law of Karma or Retribution?
Even the bible said so, " the wicked shall never go un punished ".
Many people have lied using the name of God as a cover or shield.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#76188 Feb 15, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
Ok, big bang?
Now explain how that big bang brought the universe into form?

TerryL wrote:
Are you not sitting at a computer? Is it not connected to the intenet? USE IT!

Charles Idemi wrote:
Know this if you don't know Buddy, without the brain, there would be nothing like computer or the internet.
Have you seen any human(s) creating a natural brain?
All glory goes to God almighty. Just think about that.

Another red herring courtesy of Charles Idemi!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76189 Feb 15, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Charles Idemi wrote:
“Of course i agree, the Catholic church then, did alot of bad things to people, but all these, does not change or invalidates the reality of God.”
So we have an all-powerful and all-loving God who either can’t or won’t establish a church better than the Christian church has done.
If God is all-powerful, why CAN'T he establish a church which would not usher in the Dark Ages?
If God is all-loving, why WON’T he establish a church which would not usher in the Dark Ages?
I have been observing your perversive comments. Now listen and listen very good, humans only take charge while on earth, for just a definite period, but after that, death and judgement.
God has his own ways of dealing with us all.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76190 Feb 15, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again Chuckles, it is up to the person making the POSITIVE claim to provide evidence for their beliefs. If none is given the null hypothesis says there is no reason to believe him.
You know that would be true if I made claims about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You know that you cannot disprove the existence of his Holy Pasticity. It is also a ridiculous challenge.
Come on, prove the nonexistence of the FSM, I dare you to.
Subtles, i would say that is your own level of ignorance. You or any one else, can not disprove the existence of God.
Now tell me how the universe came into form?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#76191 Feb 15, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Charles Idemi wrote:
Ok, big bang?
Now explain how that big bang brought the universe into form?
TerryL wrote:
Are you not sitting at a computer? Is it not connected to the intenet? USE IT!
Charles Idemi wrote:
Know this if you don't know Buddy, without the brain, there would be nothing like computer or the internet.
Have you seen any human(s) creating a natural brain?
All glory goes to God almighty. Just think about that.
Another red herring courtesy of Charles Idemi!
Red Herring?
Now tell me, can humans create a natural brain?
And again, there are alot of information of about God on the internet, find or use them. God is God.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#76192 Feb 15, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Subtles, i would say that is your own level of ignorance. You or any one else, can not disprove the existence of God.
Now tell me how the universe came into form?
Not to bright are you?

That was my point exactly.

Can you disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Once again it is the obligation of the person making the positive claim to support himself. I am saying that I do not believe in your god. Why should I? What evidence do you have?

Now could you ask your question about the universe again in English? It seems rather vague.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#76193 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
Red Herring?
Now tell me, can humans create a natural brain?

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?
The issue wasn’t whether humans can create a natural brain or not,
The issue was whether the big bang took place or not.

Do you know what a red herring is?
In case you don’t, let me tell you what a red herring is:
A red herring is a change of topic to distract the opponent from the original topic.
It is a dishonest tactic and you are a frequent user of that tactic.
And here I thought Christians were such honest people.

Charles Idemi wrote:
And again, there are a lot of information of about God on the internet, find or use them.

Let me see if I understand your premise correctly:
If there is a lot of information on an entity on the Internet, that proves the existence of that entity.

There is a lot of information about Harry Potter on the Internet, too.
So, according to your argument, as I understand it, Harry Potter must be a real person.
Is Harry Potter a real person?

Charles Idemi wrote:
God is God.

I agree.
A deal is a deal.
Enough is enough.
A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.
And furthermore, a tautology is a tautology.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#76194 Feb 16, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
Now tell me how the universe came into form?

Gee, I don’t know!

First, there was an ocean upon which a giant snake floated. Vishnu rested on this snake. A lotus flower sprung from Vishnu’s umbilicis, and from that lotus flower came Brahma. And from Brahma came all that is in the universe.

That’s one story.

The Ancient One, known as Unkulunkulu, is the Zulu creator. He came from the reeds and from them he brought forth the people and the cattle. He created everything that is: mountains, streams, and snakes. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food. He is considered to be the First Man and is in everything that he created.

That’s another story.

In the beginning, there was only darkness. Suddenly there emerged emerged a disc which was yellow on one side and white on the other side. The Creator, a bearded man, sat inside the disk. He looked in different directions, thereby creating light, the dawn, the clouds, and three other gods. From the sweat of the four gods, he made a small ball. The four gods kicked the ball until it grew into the earth.
That’s another story.
In the beginning, there was only an ocean. All the animals lived in the sky, where it was crowded. One day, a water beetle came to explore the earth. He explored below the surface and brought mud to the surface. He kept this up until the mud became land.
That’s another story.

First, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. He was intoxicated at the time, hence the many imperfections. To test the faith of his followers, the Monster falsified the radiocarbon dating results with his noodly appendage.

That’s another story.

So I’m all confused.
If I understand you correctly, the burden of proof is on the party receiving a message and doubting its truth. I can’t disprove any of these stories.
That means I have to believe all of them.
How can I believe all of them if they contradict each other?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#76195 Feb 16, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Some years ago while at UNI my (elective) history professor was compiling data from the Roman records of the first century. I became involved in the recording of those records, which have since been used as background in the authoring of books on the period.
Sara Reinke - Pantera
Robert Eisenman – James, the brother of Christ,
Hyam Maccobys – The Mythmaker,
Danial Underbank – Judas the Galilean: the flesh and blood Jesus
Paul Cresswell – Jesus the Terrorist
As far as I can make out the name Jesus in the context of the biblical character first cropped up in a mistake/misunderstanding when being translated to Greek over 50 years after the subjects death.
The strange thing is that the tanakh was properly )with the well known mistakes 70,000 counted sofar) translated where it counted and i believe that also happened in the 4th century CE.
Most early dating has been reviewed and C14 has taken the place of guessed comparisons. And most of those texts would be gnostic.

Thank you ChristineM for the titles. I could add some myself Attwill f.i.
But i actually plowed through the texts.(and like most took up a thorough dislike for romanized greek) but no such luck.
All there is to be found in western bibles and excerpts in IUXU or XAIA both with the connotation simple man/plebs/handworkman soldier. Or a short cryptic greek meaning opiuch in an ironic statement...for those with eyes to see, which was so popular that they used a short form for it. So i lean to the idea that it was intentionally a play to ridicule the jews and their ideas of a saviour, maybe written by Josephus.
I can´t recall the proverb opiuch derived from.(got it all in a thread so no worries)
The eastern translations, syriac-arab first, start in the 5th century and are better attested but have the same cryptic references. AI O. Well good luck to all that can read jesus in that.
But indeed it got inserted later, though when i still have not found, maybe the first welsh translation and came from a misinterpretation. I made lists of those.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#76196 Feb 16, 2013
NASA anounced yesterday that they found out that the universe is flat...I feel rather two-dimensional ever since.
The media again. They must have caught on by now that this kind of formulation leads to a never ending stream of silly questions!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#76197 Feb 16, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"Archaeologists have also been unable to find evidence in Egypt for a million+ Hebrews living in or leaving Egypt at any time."
We can't seem to find the rock that provided the last missing mineral to the primordial soup that created life either.
Go figure!
Gee that only shows you skip posts or go selectively blind.
)At least you can choose when that happens. duh.
Montmorrilion or Carpentras soil, which is actually a kind of rock.
But after posting the link once i expect people to check.
So any kind of rock of similar composition will do. Mud and amino acids are also found in space. Even in asteroids.

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