Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 159,192
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“what we think we become”

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#74963 Feb 9, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans have been around for about 200,000 years, and about 50,000 years ago we got smarter (probably developed language).
I did say thousand of years. You think a clueless great ape would invent language all of a sudden? If you understand anything about linguistics, you would know that all languages were not an accident. They are all linked to each other and something to do with consciousness. So how did we achieve consciousness without any type of intervention? Do animals learn new tricks on their own?

“what we think we become”

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Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74964 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
More correctly.
The are reclassed as Early Homo-Sapience, after genetic research.
But are distinct in bone features.
It's spelled "Sapiens"

“what we think we become”

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above and beyond

#74965 Feb 9, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>you should look into the intelligence of octopus. and ravens.
I know that already. Even dolphins are smarter that anyone thinks. but that doesn't answer my question.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#74966 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I did say thousand of years. You think a clueless great ape would invent language all of a sudden? If you understand anything about linguistics, you would know that all languages were not an accident. They are all linked to each other and something to do with consciousness. So how did we achieve consciousness without any type of intervention? Do animals learn new tricks on their own?
yes, animals do learn on their own.

so how did the other animals get their intelligence.(the same way we did. through evolution.)

hominids did not invent language all of a sudden as stated they were around for a long time.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#74967 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that already. Even dolphins are smarter that anyone thinks. but that doesn't answer my question.
it shows animals can learn... no god needed.

it shows that intelligence is not such a unique thing.

no reason that humans are even the ultimate species of this planet. i'm rooting for the octopi...

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#74968 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I did say thousand of years. You think a clueless great ape would invent language all of a sudden? If you understand anything about linguistics, you would know that all languages were not an accident. They are all linked to each other and something to do with consciousness. So how did we achieve consciousness without any type of intervention? Do animals learn new tricks on their own?
Who ever said language was developed suddenly? Actually there seems to be several different language groups that don't seem to be connected or related.

I believe I have heard of monkeys developing new behavior without human intervention, but sadly I can't remember where.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#74969 Feb 9, 2013
have a fun night....C-ya.

“what we think we become”

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Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74970 Feb 9, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, animals do learn on their own.
so how did the other animals get their intelligence.(the same way we did. through evolution.)
hominids did not invent language all of a sudden as stated they were around for a long time.
Any species has some level of intelligence. But we can't train them to learn extraordinary tricks without human intervention.

“what we think we become”

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Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74971 Feb 9, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
have a fun night....C-ya.
nite. When you have the answer, get back to me. ;-)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74972 Feb 9, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Who ever said language was developed suddenly? Actually there seems to be several different language groups that don't seem to be connected or related.
I believe I have heard of monkeys developing new behavior without human intervention, but sadly I can't remember where.
Even linguists, psychologists, and anthropologists of today don't have an answer. Neither did Darwin.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74973 Feb 9, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans have been around for about 200,000 years, and about 50,000 years ago we got smarter (probably developed language).
That's the gene for the voiebox, been traced back and pinpointed.

But the more variation and the more SNP are involved the more chance of more neuronal connections being made.
The size of the hypocampus matters (Alzheimer and various. Gene for that also found)
Then the upkeep HFCS really will make people stupid. It crates acidity in the brain and hyperclucose that the insuline can't regulate anymore. Ala and fatty fish fats counteracts this.

I always understood that size of the entire brain is not the issue, but the number of connections and the health of these connections. And one indicator, from the outside would be the grooves. The morre your brains match a cauliflower, the better at problemsolving.

in a French study scientist did however research that only measured the bulk.

the rationale could be this:
The brain scans found drifting IQ mirrored by changes in density of nerves and other cells in parts of brains, suggesting drifts are real changes in ability, not varying concentration, mood or motivation.
Article on variation in teenager intelligence, or why 11y.+ test could actually not be a good indicator. And speculation that this could also be the case for grown-ups. Variation even upto 21 points.

So all genes involved in the upkeep count, and that might be the non-DNA again.

http://cosmosmagazine.com/news/intelligence-g...
The French study.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/09...
Genetic difference is important.

So being a social animal, a voicebox and added extra, a bigger population with more variation, a change in diet (cooked food is a suggestion, higher caloric yield from less food) more fish, a change in environment that called for more inventive ways.
Retro-breeding with bigger-brained Neanderthals and Denizovans.

But the start would be with the last split from the simians when big genetic changes and duplication really took of.

““You must not lose faith ”

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Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74974 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Any species has some level of intelligence. But we can't train them to learn extraordinary tricks without human intervention.
Good we invented the door and a doorhandle.

For now the cat can open it by making a salto mortale from the roof and by hanging on for dearlife and pushing with one hindleg and the other keeping balance.(saw a funny video like that once.)

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74975 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele i do care about you throwing any cat of the roof to learn it that trick.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74976 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the gene for the voiebox, been traced back and pinpointed.
But the more variation and the more SNP are involved the more chance of more neuronal connections being made.
The size of the hypocampus matters (Alzheimer and various. Gene for that also found)
Then the upkeep HFCS really will make people stupid. It crates acidity in the brain and hyperclucose that the insuline can't regulate anymore. Ala and fatty fish fats counteracts this.
I always understood that size of the entire brain is not the issue, but the number of connections and the health of these connections. And one indicator, from the outside would be the grooves. The morre your brains match a cauliflower, the better at problemsolving.
in a French study scientist did however research that only measured the bulk.
the rationale could be this:
The brain scans found drifting IQ mirrored by changes in density of nerves and other cells in parts of brains, suggesting drifts are real changes in ability, not varying concentration, mood or motivation.
Article on variation in teenager intelligence, or why 11y.+ test could actually not be a good indicator. And speculation that this could also be the case for grown-ups. Variation even upto 21 points.
So all genes involved in the upkeep count, and that might be the non-DNA again.
http://cosmosmagazine.com/news/intelligence-g...
The French study.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/09...
Genetic difference is important.
So being a social animal, a voicebox and added extra, a bigger population with more variation, a change in diet (cooked food is a suggestion, higher caloric yield from less food) more fish, a change in environment that called for more inventive ways.
Retro-breeding with bigger-brained Neanderthals and Denizovans.
But the start would be with the last split from the simians when big genetic changes and duplication really took of.
Food has nothing to do with it. All it does is affect your metabolism and hormones. A skinny person can be as intelligent as a fat person. Your link explains the brain size linked to DNA code. I'm not sure about that. I think there is something about consciousness that we still don't have an answer to. Being a social animal isn't the answer. What made us a social animal in the first place? Nature and nurture. We respond to stimuli. So if great apes responded to their environment like how we do now, then there was something present in the environment during their time.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74977 Feb 9, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Who ever said language was developed suddenly? Actually there seems to be several different language groups that don't seem to be connected or related.
I believe I have heard of monkeys developing new behavior without human intervention, but sadly I can't remember where.
Like with genes we also find isolated language populations.

And the supposition of indo-european messed up a lot of studies.
Sanscrite is not that old at all. Closer to 150 BC actually and derived from older Indian dialects.
They form one language family.
And then you would get frankly the Anatolian one, since it forms a hub. With even roots to semitic languages. Luvite and Luvian where hardly studied at all.
And they in turn interwoven again with african languages.
Ah well long story short. There is a board that explores such connections. To get to memes that would be universal.

Cave monkeys.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74978 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I did say thousand of years. You think a clueless great ape would invent language all of a sudden? If you understand anything about linguistics, you would know that all languages were not an accident. They are all linked to each other and something to do with consciousness. So how did we achieve consciousness without any type of intervention? Do animals learn new tricks on their own?
See top page...thousands.

the links make the conscious.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74979 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Good we invented the door and a doorhandle.
For now the cat can open it by making a salto mortale from the roof and by hanging on for dearlife and pushing with one hindleg and the other keeping balance.(saw a funny video like that once.)
I have a cat. And he did learn tricks like how to reach for the door handle. But I showed him that the door handle opens the door. If you put a cat in a room with no human in the room, he wouldn't know what the door handle does without observing anyone opening the door.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74980 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It's spelled "Sapiens"
off-course:)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74981 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Like with genes we also find isolated language populations.
And the supposition of indo-european messed up a lot of studies.
Sanscrite is not that old at all. Closer to 150 BC actually and derived from older Indian dialects.
They form one language family.
And then you would get frankly the Anatolian one, since it forms a hub. With even roots to semitic languages. Luvite and Luvian where hardly studied at all.
And they in turn interwoven again with african languages.
Ah well long story short. There is a board that explores such connections. To get to memes that would be universal.
Cave monkeys.
If there is no God, what made early humans grasp this concept in the first place? So much about atheist propaganda. We can't agree which is the real God, so why have one. But at least accept the fact that there is a higher intelligence out there.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74982 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Food has nothing to do with it. All it does is affect your metabolism and hormones. A skinny person can be as intelligent as a fat person. Your link explains the brain size linked to DNA code. I'm not sure about that. I think there is something about consciousness that we still don't have an answer to. Being a social animal isn't the answer. What made us a social animal in the first place? Nature and nurture. We respond to stimuli. So if great apes responded to their environment like how we do now, then there was something present in the environment during their time.
Cooked food gives a higher caloric yield and also vitamin absorption per portion, compared to raw food.
So that would be about a change in preparation.
Affecting hormones and metabolism is exactly what that implies.
Fat and skinny are not relevant.(Nowaday however i look at that differently. Absolutely anomalous all those fat people. And particularly why they are fat.)

Conscious is always approached as if it's unappraochable. It is in a way...you can't look in your own brain.

We were a concestor. Some difference in a group of these making the change more premanent.(Chromosome 2) But after splitting from the bonobos it really took of.
I can't recall whether that was mentioned, some parasite?

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