Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

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#74753 Feb 8, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>They say God, but we know better. Who made God? 5oo years ago if Charles Idemi would have stood in front of his cronies and said, " One Day we shall fly to the moon on a ship". CI would be hanging within minutes. Now, intelligent, educated humans make the statement, "We are not alone in the universe, the probability is staggering". Most humans are unable to even think in that direction. Generation, after generation, will come to terms with the truth. Not for a long, long time. CI if people cant read it in text books or on the net how can it be true.....that's what we are dealing with today. In another 500 years the human race if not extinct will be more accepting in the fact that we are not alone. Creation and evolution will be under the category of human error. Deep space has all the answers humans are looking for ...maybe not today but in the future.
" We know better", and yet no valid answer. Christians work by faith and that faith has been a source of inspirations and blessings to them.
Let God be in you, through faith.

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#74754 Feb 8, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
You were obviously not getting the idea that christianity and judaism do not share the same ideas and same god.
That what you attribute to god and how you interpret the stories is entirely out of intent and original context.
So your god makes you vindictive, prejudiced, narrowminded and anti-science.
Mine does not.
You are a narrow minded clown. God is real and no one can change that fact.
God is one. All others globally are gods, goddesses and deities. The difference is very clear.

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#74755 Feb 8, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
There we go again: then tell us how this is to be proven!
Observation: the universe. elements and all the physical features of the earth.
Assumption: they are a god.(not even supposing the 'same god')
Test... proof...falsify ???
The ultimate proof of gods existence.
Any idea how long this has occupied people allready?
And how come you are not capable to distinguish between a god and all that the creation stories are and do, and that this might imply it's own evolutionary timescale?
The most extreme consequence of your simplism, would be that if the universe would implode, this god would cease to exist.
Baseless!
Now tell me how the universe came into form, since you rejected the faith based position?

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#74756 Feb 8, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>500 years ago if woodtick would have stood up and said, "One day we shalt fly to the moon". Woodtick would have been stoned. Today if the word alien is mentioned its the same old story, grab some tinfoil, swamp gas, light refraction, crazy people, lights in the sky.....on and on. We are not the ones talking to a ghost(GOD) and having the ghost talk back. If someone says they saw God, everybody on earth would believe them. Its ok, we don't live in the past, we are looking light years ahead....the future looks bright. Deep space is the code we live by!
Deep space?
Definition, please!

““You must not lose faith ”

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Since: Jun 11

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#74757 Feb 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> If you don't believe in a creator, that is your business.
I and many millions of people, knows that he exist.
God is watching us from a distance!
Why from a distance?
What distance?

“what we think we become”

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Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74758 Feb 8, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>My point would not be that it s impossible.
I'm not bothered by not knowing, the process of finding out is just as much fun,or might frankly be even al the fun!
That is what i'm driving at. Humans have extreme curiosity. Without it we get depressed.

Say you made contact to deepspace.
Then why do you assume that it will change anything?
Or say we are an experiment: so what...we would like to know the motive offcourse.

But it wil not change what people believe, maybe it get's incorporated in their culture as some ideas now come from a bad translation of Assyrian but it will not change the facts that rule our part of the universe nor thus our material limitations.

So what's your point?
The point is we can forgot about your ape cousins and create artificial intelligence robots to fly in space in the next decades.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74759 Feb 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You are a narrow minded clown. God is real and no one can change that fact.
God is one. All others globally are gods, goddesses and deities. The difference is very clear.
Interesting, that's f.i. the islamic definition.

So you never really understood: hold none above me.
Nor of the mutual deal with the people of Israel, provide home and a safe house and be all as one i.e. bonded, pledged.
That it especially does not imply inferiority of other believes in devinity or power.
If Jesus and the spirit also have to find a place and since eloha is female, and purely because of grammar elohim becomes plural with a male ending.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74760 Feb 8, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is we can forgot about your ape cousins and create artificial intelligence robots to fly in space in the next decades.
That's self-evident.
Work is on the way...so it is the programming.
What to give along, how self-repairing and replicating.

Most striking for me would be the idea that we would finally use these indestructible materials, instead of weakening them so consumer-products break down after 3 years.(Talk about waste)

(Another bad science fiction series comes to mind. Those guys and the cylons, looking for earth. There were some good episodes.
And The startrek movie with V...GER. Looking for the creator, the maker does not respond.)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74761 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>That's self-evident.
Work is on the way...so it is the programming.
What to give along, how self-repairing and replicating.

Most striking for me would be the idea that we would finally use these indestructible materials, instead of weakening them so consumer-products break down after 3 years.(Talk about waste)

(Another bad science fiction series comes to mind. Those guys and the cylons, looking for earth. There were some good episodes.
And The startrek movie with V...GER. Looking for the creator, the maker does not respond.)
I don't know about self- replicating. We are building robot brains not DNA. We know that is impossible. Get over it. It will never be a viable cell.

I'm more into Transformers. But yeah I used to watch V until I realized how evil of them it to eat mice when they are useful in a lab!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

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#74762 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
There we go again: then tell us how this is to be proven!
>>>as tenthousands times before we ask, since you pose fasts and never say:"this is ofcourse a faithbased position"<<<< <

Observation: the universe. elements and all the physical features of the earth.
Assumption: they are a god.(not even supposing the 'same god')
Test... proof...falsify ???
>>>So if god is so real that he came to your rescue well then deliver the proof<<<

The ultimate proof of gods existence.
Any idea how long this has occupied people allready?
>>>Well charles do you have an idea?<<<

And how come you are not capable to distinguish between a god and all that the creation stories are and do, and that this might imply it's own evolutionary timescale?
>>>You nevr stated you had a faithbased believe.
So i'm entitled to ask those questions. Many have done the same so they also take you to be a godbot, incapable of faith which implies at least realism and some doubts<<<

The most extreme consequence of your simplism, would be that if the universe would implode, this god would cease to exist.
>>>You made them equal, i even quoted you.
So now you admit that you had no base.!!!<<<<
Charles Idemi wrote:
Baseless!
Now tell me how the universe came into form, since you rejected the faith based position?

End quote.

Some posts are best repeated complete.
If everything is god that implies he (let's go sexist here)can die, or parts can die.
You have a pantheist and omni-idealisation of your god. And an approach that tells us you see IT as nothing but a materialistic fact.
Or that is what you want to make us believe, while at the same time claiming IT to be based on faith.
Usually when we start pushing for proof.
If your GOD exist then why not give proof to us!!!
We are getting rather fed up with the repetition of IT being a fact, without any proof whatsoever given.

My believe would be entirely based on premises and a bit of faith that they represent the human condition. And the more explanations all the better. Since i consider all of that part of a grand total and if i call that the basis of a truth that people have always ascribed to divinities or nature, then that would be a good reflection of what humanity has wondered about, and apes and other maybe too!

So from your arguement it does not follow that i have to explain how the universe came to be.

The universe again, however just for the fun of it is great.
I gave such nice sites illustrating the latest we know.
I wrote about the hole in the background radiation.
etc.etc.
We wrote about branes.
So i go for a certain kind of branes.
Which would also explain the cool zone, that's usually left out of the story.
For others i will post that excellent and funny paper again. You will probably not read it. Even though it also touches on life after death.
Have to look for it though.

““You must not lose faith ”

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Since: Jun 11

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#74763 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know about self- replicating. We are building robot brains not DNA. We know that is impossible. Get over it. It will never be a viable cell.
I'm more into Transformers. But yeah I used to watch V until I realized how evil of them it to eat mice when they are useful in a lab!
Well they would have to be since that is part of self repair. And i would go for bio-chemistry.

Like there is a lot just hanging around in the universe.
Entire sugar clouds f.i

So i think we will get to a combination, we've even adjusted our programming as in way of calculating allready. To overcome the build-time getting larger then time available in the universe.
The limiting factor wold be reporting to the maker, us thus.
Like supposing god is in deep space, and wonder why would we still tune to that part of the universe after a couple of billion years.

So you want them to be virtually industructable and to get where they go. And know about it.

V could never hold my interest. Like the joke though.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#74764 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
There we go again: then tell us how this is to be proven!
>>>as tenthousands times before we ask, since you pose fasts and never say:"this is ofcourse a faithbased position"<<<< <

Observation: the universe. elements and all the physical features of the earth.
Assumption: they are a god.(not even supposing the 'same god')
Test... proof...falsify ???
>>>So if god is so real that he came to your rescue well then deliver the proof<<<

The ultimate proof of gods existence.
Any idea how long this has occupied people allready?
>>>Well charles do you have an idea?<<<

And how come you are not capable to distinguish between a god and all that the creation stories are and do, and that this might imply it's own evolutionary timescale?
>>>You nevr stated you had a faithbased believe.
So i'm entitled to ask those questions. Many have done the same so they also take you to be a godbot, incapable of faith which implies at least realism and some doubts<<<

The most extreme consequence of your simplism, would be that if the universe would implode, this god would cease to exist.
>>>You made them equal, i even quoted you.
So now you admit that you had no base.!!!<<<<
Charles Idemi wrote:
Baseless!
Now tell me how the universe came into form, since you rejected the faith based position?

End quote.

Some posts are best repeated complete.
If everything is god that implies he (let's go sexist here)can die, or parts can die.
You have a pantheist and omni-idealisation of your god. And an approach that tells us you see IT as nothing but a materialistic fact.
Or that is what you want to make us believe, while at the same time claiming IT to be based on faith.
Usually when we start pushing for proof.
If your GOD exist then why not give proof to us!!!
We are getting rather fed up with the repetition of IT being a fact, without any proof whatsoever given.

My believe would be entirely based on premises and a bit of faith that they represent the human condition. And the more explanations all the better. Since i consider all of that part of a grand total and if i call that the basis of a truth that people have always ascribed to divinities or nature, then that would be a good reflection of what humanity has wondered about, and apes and other maybe too!

So from your arguement it does not follow that i have to explain how the universe came to be.

The universe again, however just for the fun of it is great.
I gave such nice sites illustrating the latest we know.
I wrote about the hole in the background radiation.
etc.etc.
We wrote about branes.
So i go for a certain kind of branes.
Which would also explain the cool zone, that's usually left out of the story.
For others i will post that excellent and funny paper again. You will probably not read it. Even though it also touches on life after death.
Have to look for it though.
It's futile to argue about the existence of God with fun-dies. He exists in everything! Even in a jelly fish with no brains.

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Since: Apr 11

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#74765 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Why from a distance?
What distance?
Heavens !
There is a big dichotomy between heaven and the earth.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#74766 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, that's f.i. the islamic definition.
So you never really understood: hold none above me.
Nor of the mutual deal with the people of Israel, provide home and a safe house and be all as one i.e. bonded, pledged.
That it especially does not imply inferiority of other believes in devinity or power.
If Jesus and the spirit also have to find a place and since eloha is female, and purely because of grammar elohim becomes plural with a male ending.
Please be plain in your explanation. I am not getting you.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

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#74767 Feb 9, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>Heavens !
There is a big dichotomy between heaven and the earth.
Well someone with good eyesight and on a perfect night can see about 1020 or some small number.
From some verse we learn that heaven is just behind the stars. Christian thinking and i think it was in christian revelation.

Well what dichotomy would their be between heaven and earth in your (christian) definition of the two.
---
In Judaism it's just a plain with a garden in proper translation near or along a river on the plain=eden. From the Akkadian.
So you would never look up specifically for g-d, there would be no point.
Earth-fertile soil
In judaism the allusion to heaven can mean:
-Redemption, being set free.
-the actual heavens to know what day it is
-A spiritual life.
-the temple and all this represents
and some more.
Earth :
-Bound, formed live.
-fertile soil
-material concerns that take one away from the inner reflection
-Government
and some more.

““You must not lose faith ”

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Since: Jun 11

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#74768 Feb 9, 2013
Allah is one.
Is the most stressed tenet.

You have a trinity, and no matter how you expkain, since jesus was a man, it will never be one with god.

You have to think in terms of responsibility, not superior or inferior.

What israel made unique was their personal relation with their god. And the promise that they wold get a hous if they gave their god a house, land ditto, people ditto. That's the pledge and thus again about responsibility.

Other believes and gods(esses) nature-spirits are mentioned allover the book and often united under the old monarchy.
Under duress, we get this extreme demand to be free from other influences and we get the literature that stresses this. So a reflection of the occupation and/or foreign rule people endured.
This is what judaism is often equated with. Wrongly since taken out of the context.

Elaha or eloha is a feminin noun. Elohim the plural gets a male ending. We find this reversal also going the other way in other nouns.
It's also a lawbook and elohim is used as judges or all the gods(esses and NSp)united or even more general also including women. The court, the peoples-court.
So you might get Mary, the spirit, and jesus in a concept of Eohim but never in a ONEGOD.

Judaism also holds that yo can only say what god is not.
What if you pinned G-d down to a definition and then something bad happens to it...you've killed god!

Next time be a bit more precise as to what you do not get. Saves time. HAHAHA.... who am i kidding.

MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting, that's f.i. the islamic definition.
So you never really understood: hold none above me.
Nor of the mutual deal with the people of Israel, provide home and a safe house and be all as one i.e. bonded, pledged.
That it especially does not imply inferiority of other believes in devinity or power.
If Jesus and the spirit also have to find a place and since eloha is female, and purely because of grammar elohim becomes plural with a male ending.

CD wrote:Please be plain in your explanation. I am not getting you.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74769 Feb 9, 2013
Anyone reading it has to admit that i included a lot of plain. i hope it was plain enough. ;P

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74770 Feb 9, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It's futile to argue about the existence of God with fun-dies. He exists in everything! Even in a jelly fish with no brains.
imo.It's rather about the strange definition fundies of all faiths can have. And how fundies at the same time are not capable of thinking in terms of responsibility and consequences.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#74771 Feb 9, 2013
http://www.angmalta.net/clients/alan/existenc ...
A SCIENTIFIC APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM OF CONTINUED EXISTENCE AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH
Three consecutive papers.
Alan Baldwin

http://universe-review.ca/F05-galaxy.htm
Summary of the latest studies.
(QMG is out note to self)

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christ ...
The Catholic Church's Respons to Our Critique of Christian Credibility.
Lawrence Kelemen
About the main difference between judaism and christianity. And the Vatican's point of view.
Entertaining!

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume3/messa ...
The Message Of The Hebrew Wisdom Literature.

On John and pslam 82
https://www.3.nd.edu/~jneyrey1/Gods.html
The first christians calling themselves gods.
---
Aramaic peshitta's original did not have 'son of god' but 'sons of the governor'.
The term got wrongly interpreted and than this stuck.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#74772 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Well someone with good eyesight and on a perfect night can see about 1020 or some small number.
From some verse we learn that heaven is just behind the stars. Christian thinking and i think it was in christian revelation.
Well what dichotomy would their be between heaven and earth in your (christian) definition of the two.
---
In Judaism it's just a plain with a garden in proper translation near or along a river on the plain=eden. From the Akkadian.
So you would never look up specifically for g-d, there would be no point.
Earth-fertile soil
In judaism the allusion to heaven can mean:
-Redemption, being set free.
-the actual heavens to know what day it is
-A spiritual life.
-the temple and all this represents
and some more.
Earth :
-Bound, formed live.
-fertile soil
-material concerns that take one away from the inner reflection
-Government
and some more.
Babel fish!
Only dead fish go with the flow!

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