Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 1

Since: Feb 13

Riverside , CA

#74351 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all.
I was an atheist when I began to be skeptical of evolution. I am also a major science fiction geek, that began to see common pattern in most fiction that assumed evolution was true, but never actual touched on the specifics.
I have a very intuitive mind.
I have only been a Christian for about 3 years.I rejected evolution at least 10 years ago, as self-evidently absurd. I researched all the journals I could get my hand on, and they all shocked me on their total lack of actual evidence, and unbelievable level of assumptions and misuse of language.
Sorry to disillusion you.
But anyone that adheres to evolution without checking, and rechecking the data for themselves, is the one suffering from bias. Your claim is a slap in the face of every Christian scientist since medieval times that has brought us to the current state of high technology, and deeply insulting.
Well your first problem is you dont get real science from science fiction, and really why would an atheist ever become a christian? For most of us it only takes reading though the bible to become an atheist in the first place, i have never heard of anyone going back? As for evolution i have studied this for decades and it always stays true even when i try to disprove it. And BTW Christian scientist is an oxymoron and they are responsible for nothing and saying that its "Christian scientist" that has brought us to the current state of high technology is what is truly insulting, it was Christians that put us in the dark ages and set us back thousands of years.... And FYI yes i keep my education up to date ...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74352 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Last time I checked, 15 billion for the universe, 5 billion for earth, more or less.
Why?
I suppose you think that is evidence for evolution, if life has been on the earth for about 3 to 4 billion years?
No, it's not. The model doesn't work. The model is so poor a theory that it would be better to speculate that earth was been the plaything of alien cultures landing all sorts of creatures on the planet for all this time.
I'll take Ancient Aliens and David Brin style Galatics any day.
No, I was seeing if you were a YEC or not.

So how do you believe that people got here.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74353 Feb 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't even know what the scientific method is, much less what constitutes scientific evidence.
So are you going to continue to bray like an uneducated donkey or do you actually want to learn something? It might be too late to learn tonight, but I will try to answer any questions given to me.
Once again, I am willing to show that evolution is a scientific belief. It is supported by scientific evidence. And no one has written any other scientific explanation.
These are all facts that even honest creationists will admit.
So, do you want to be an embarrassment to your kids for the rest of your life? I guarantee you that when they become adults they will be laughing at you over this, or do you want to learn?
Are you kidding me?

I used to be believe in evolution whole-heartedly 10 years ago, until I needed more details on the model and how it works. I have a highly intuitive mind, and the whole thing kept nagging and nagging at me.

I will teach you, friend.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/Bio...

It begin with the problem of how such rarities in mutations can effect change. This was my question as well. It's been THE question for over a 100 years, and everyone just assumed the answer was close at hand.

And yet, the conclusion of this article is as good as it gets, which is pathetic at best, and downright dishonest for the most part when you really tear down the layers.

I kept it to myself, and continued to do more research when I had time, but no longer can I play along with the ruse ... especially in light of the staggering COST and LOSS OF TIME keeping this theory going against all rational thought and reason, the sheer WASTE when the scientific community could have been spending much more time on REAL issues, like food production and technology.

No, sir, it is you I am trying to educate, and failing miserably as I go against not peer-reviewed evidence, but ossified peer-pressure on a massive, global scale unprecedented in human history, save the rise of Islam or Christianity.

You really want to shake things up? Then start from zero, void your mind of ALL assumptions and preconceived notions, and start over. Maybe, just maybe, you might see the obvious. And maybe not.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74354 Feb 7, 2013
HTS and others have made similar claims, and we never get anywhere but they always say: explain.
And then they do not read.

60-75 mutation every generation is what kids are born with anyway. What makes them unique.
25 huge genomic changes in the alleles is what humans probably (scientific term i.e. depending on the method used)had after the split from the simians , per 1 million years. resulting in about 125 major changes.
Those given a big population, would spread exponentionally.(The smaller ones also, but you would not notice it.)And deleterious ones would be neutralised due to genetic diversity.

----From a somewhat outdated 1995 textbook:
Say we have a very small population.
Then these condition can be of effect:

-Deleterious mutations &#64257;x at a high rate;
-Fixed alleles have large effect; and
-The reproductive excess of the population is small.

The factors that accentuate these three terms are sometimes contradictory. As
we show later, mutations of large effect are both rarer and less likely to &#64257;x.
---
So it would not just be about the number, because the genome has many loci, that can even be re-used for mutations.
We also make doubles.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74355 Feb 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
Blablabla
I see we are going nowhere fast then:
YY wrote:
The entire theory is anti-science. It has become so institutionalized, and the community so desperate to maintain the fallacy, that is is not wasting a staggering amount of energy, time, and money that could be better spent solving other serious world problems.
end quote
Another claim that needs to be validated.
So some people notice a pattern, observe, test, write it down, and try to explain what they observed. And way earlier then the 19th century.
Fine, no worries, tons of books are published every year that are actually total trash and just to entertain.
This theory however offers insights in medical conditions and cures and helps producing better harvests and better cattle a.s.o.
And now it totally eludes me as to where the waist is. Vague statement, populistic, stating everything and nothing...and oh yeah let's safe the word.
I.o.w. i'm waisting my time here and have so much more important things to do, but you people have taken the money i want and are keeping me from my saviour activities.
That actually sounds really pathetic.
Oh no!...another messiah complex.
Just as a courtesy, I haven't been, and will not be reading your posts, just in case you valued your time and had something better to do than insist I buy into your BS.

Just FYI.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74356 Feb 7, 2013
Yahoo, the site you listed forgot that there are two driving forces to evolution. Variation, of which mutation is only part, and natural selection. The writer of your article forgot about natural selection which cleans up the harmful mutations from the genome. Animals with harmful mutations are less likely survive, much less breed, which is what they would have to do to pass on their harmful mutations.

That looks like it might be the work of John Sanford. A creationist who's idea was almost instantaneously debunked.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74357 Feb 7, 2013
Ah no, you had better things to do.
And so far you have not convinved.
And Sub is trying to rescue you or rather your kid from embarrasment.
No use appealing to your better nature.

But did you read/interprete that article properly.
If homozygotous change is not good on the condon (lethal), well then we best had the usual heterozygotic codon change!:)

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74358 Feb 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Yahoo, the site you listed forgot that there are two driving forces to evolution. Variation, of which mutation is only part, and natural selection. The writer of your article forgot about natural selection which cleans up the harmful mutations from the genome. Animals with harmful mutations are less likely survive, much less breed, which is what they would have to do to pass on their harmful mutations.
That looks like it might be the work of John Sanford. A creationist who's idea was almost instantaneously debunked.
It allready started to sound familiar.

Ah well, they would do that. I mean simply plonk it here again, having skimmed some issue, but not aware that is was just debunked.
At least Shubee made the angle of approach obvious and the medical conditions made it more interesting.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74359 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as a courtesy, I haven't been, and will not be reading your posts, just in case you valued your time and had something better to do than insist I buy into your BS.
Just FYI.
Don't fret.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74360 Feb 7, 2013
YY t was uneducational talking to you.
Just scoring some points here :)))

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74361 Feb 7, 2013
Maybe you cold by a thought-compactor.
Have your thoughts stored on a bacteria f.i.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74362 Feb 7, 2013
cold by- could buy- good-bye

Off to town.
Have a nice day y'all.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#74363 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Exactly. 75 mutations per person (a number that changes radically over time.)
Which is not even an iota of what is needed to effect change. You would need many THOUSANDS of mutations to get the whopping %1 of effective mutations of the total sum, to even BEGIN to effect change.
Bet you can't guess how many mutations occur in the human genome per generation. Not even close.(Hint: it's a BUNCH.)

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#74364 Feb 7, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no such fossil record that supports this. The fossil records do not support evolution at all, or any such transitional period between species.
You are just regurgitating what someone told you at this point. I bet you don't have the faintest idea what the model of evolution actual is, do you?
Blind faith?
Unfortunately, this is probably how religions actual start. Blind followers of something they think is absolutely true.
Sad, really, that science is being destroyed from within.
Yes fossil records do support evolution. The fossil record supports the ascent of homo sapiens for about 4 million years in an unbroken chain of transition. The genetic record goes even further.

My hobby is the study of a small section of that 4 million years. Cro-Magnon man, only a few tens of thousand years but there is considerable evolutionary skeletal and cranial difference between those early h. sapiens and modern h. sapiens.

Its not what someone told me but what I can see with my own eyes, feel with my own hands and measure using my intellect.

In my understanding of those studies I have also looked (with my own eyes) at the fossil and geological evidence that takes me back half a million years.

The record exists, I have seen some of it, it is not that someone told me its that I HAVE SEEN IT

P.S. the skull you see as my avatar is a transitional artefact. I have held it, I have examined it, I have compared it to a modern skull of the same species and I have compared to fragments of a 38,000 years old skull o the same species. It lies in between, it is transitional between the two. That species is us, homo sapiens, human beings.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#74365 Feb 7, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
If a theory was 100% certain, then it would be a fact and not a theory.
You obviously do not quite understand the meaning of the word theory in scientific terms

I can quite understand this, you are obviously a godbot and just like the word truth you have no concept of the meaning outside of your faith.

In religion truth means what you believe in, in real-life truth means conformity to fact or actuality.

In religion theory means guess. In science a scientific theory explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable".

The theory explains the fact

The theory of gravity explains the fact that of gravity

The theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#74366 Feb 7, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I will continue to ask you this question, if truly the bible and Christianity is false, both would have died out of existence, but the reverse were/ are the case. Instead both of them have passed many criticisms to date.
Dont be stupid,(oh, sorry if you cant help it) how can it die when there are gullible fools like you unwilling to accept proven scientific fact but would rather suckle on bronze age mythology and fall in line behind those who are earning a living out of fooling people?

Muslim terrorist believe that is thy die in jihad that will go to a place with 72 virgins to wait on there every need. No one has ever proven this true but it does not stop the terrorists.

E=MC^2 proves that no omnipotent (infinite power/energy) being (Revelation 19:6 KJV) can exist in this universe because you exist.

DNA proves that genetic adam and genetic eve lives 80,000 years apart, yet the babble says otherwise

Biology shows that snakes and donkeys do not and have never been able to talk yet the babble says otherwise

The geological column proves that Noahs flood was a crock, yet the babble says otherwise. Based on the mores of the time it was as good a story as any, but time and knowledge advances.

Astronomy proves that no supanova occurred to turn carbon into a column of salt, yet the babble says otherwise, actually it does not understand what it says and puts the whole thing down to god magic.

The roman archives and other documents show that the jesus of the babble was a terrorist who was crucified for his crimes

But I see that you have not yet bothered answering my question, whassup? No answer?

You have still not provided any evidence after all this time. Honey what is this showing, it is showing that you are a christian from nothing more than incredulity

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#74367 Feb 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be darned, god blessing a lyer through the mouth of a nay-sayer.
WITCH!
WITCH!

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#74368 Feb 7, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You are the one smoking, you bloody liar.
Alpha stands for beginning( first Greek letter) and Omega stands for end( last letter of the Greeks).
These are also the attributes of God, first and last, Moron.
I do not lie, I have no god to lie for so I see no need. In fact one of my pet hates is liars, I have no tolerance for lies and hence my dislike of you and people like you. People who make sh|t up based on a bronze age superstition to suite themselves and then hoik it is Truth look up the meaning of the word truth.

What I showed you was dictionary definitions not lies you snivelling puss infested godbot moron look we can all call names you dont need to be a deliberately ignorant godbot to do that

What god? You still have not offered ***any*** ANY *** A N Y *** evidence, not one scrap, not ever - that a god exists. Just because you are unable to use your god given brain is not my problem

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#74369 Feb 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? What do you know about the archaeological support for Hinduism, Taoism, or Shintoism to name only three of the thousands of religions in the world?
And worse, you do know that archaeologists claim that the Exodus never happened. In other words Archaeologists all the second book of the Bible bullshit.
Seen is believing and i hope you have eyes.
If one or two books are not yet verified, that does not invalidates the other books.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#74370 Feb 7, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Vanity upon vanity is vanity!
Einstein, Newton and others whether they believed in God or not, never change the attributes of God, his existence and glory continues because he is God.
More of your shit.
This is true, you cannot change the attributes of nothing, thank you for confirmation that you are unable to provide any evidence for the existence of god. It must be really hard for people like you in todays modern and technological society to keep up your incredulity in ignorance of fact.

More of the puss infected garbage you dribble from your mouth. Now tell me do you want to continue this verbal abuse in your gods name or have you actually got something valid to offer?

My guess is you will continue your verbal abuse and I will continue retaliating because you have f_ck all to offer.

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