Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221490 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74314 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee, you obviously have no clue how evolution works, how long it takes, or what the driving force of evolution are.

You cannot debunk an idea that you do not understand. All you can do is to look like a fool.

Try to ask reasonable questions.

Do you know what the theory of evolution predicts that we would see in the fossil record?

Aargh. Ask questions and we will give you answers. Make stupid statements and we will tell you that your statements are stupid and why.

Your choice.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74315 Feb 6, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
On the surface, it seems logical.
If you add a smaller positive integer and a larger negative integer, you get a negative integer.
But it doesn't work that way.
If you run for office and your opponent gets more votes than you do, you lose the election.
But it doesn't work that way.
Rather, this is how it works:
favorable mutations are inherited, unfavorable mutations are not.
An unfavorable mutation could hurt a member's chances of surviving until child-bearing age.
An unfavorable mutation could also render a member unattractive, thereby hurting his or her chances of finding mates.
A favorable mutation, on the other hand, helps a member and helps that member's descendents.
A better analogy could be found in the arts and the media.
We forget everything which is unpopular and remember only that which is popular.
What songs did Petulah Clark sing besides "Downtown"?
Nobody knows and nobody cares.
What did Kyu Sakamoto sing besides "Sukiyaki"?
Nobody knows and nobody cares.
What operas did Englebert Humperdinck compose besides "Hansel and Gretel"?
Nobody knows and nobody cares.
Back to the topic:
What harmful mutations have taken place?
Nobody knows and nobody cares.
All true, until you get to the math, and the percentage of such mutations happening often enough to make even an iota of difference.

That's probably why evolution seemed so attractive in the olden says, before we knew better. The model is no longer sustainable by current science.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74316 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is bad form to applaud for idiotic posts.
Do you realize how many points he was totally wrong on?
None.

Do you realize that you are either lying, or that so entrenched in your false world view that you might go insane?

Stop trying to peddle your anti-scientific views of evolution. It's time to move on, and progress to real science. People like you need to get out of the way, and shut up.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74317 Feb 6, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't feed the troll.
Not even with Memes...my goodness.
MAAT, you are the troll.

Just go back and review your own posts, and it's open vile and hatred towards those that dare to disagree with your anti-science views.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74318 Feb 6, 2013
SZ: No, I was talking about a strict scientific definition of evolution. Or to put it another way: The change in allele frequency of a population over time.

By that definition viruses evolve.

Now the one thatis not efecting the DNA.
F.i. hormonal effects.
Molecular basis of epigenetics
Epigenetic changes can modify the activation of certain genes, but not the sequence of DNA. Additionally, the chromatin proteins associated with DNA may be activated or silenced. This is why the differentiated cells in a multi-cellular organism express only the genes that are necessary for their own activity. Epigenetic changes are preserved when cells divide. Most epigenetic changes only occur within the course of one individual organism's lifetime, but, if gene disactivation occurs in a sperm or egg cell that results in fertilization, then some epigenetic changes can be transferred to the next generation.[14] This raises the question of whether or not epigenetic changes in an organism can alter the basic structure of its DNA (see Evolution, below), a form of Lamarckism.

Specific epigenetic processes include paramutation, bookmarking, imprinting, gene silencing, X chromosome inactivation, position effect, reprogramming, transvection, maternal effects, the progress of carcinogenesis, many effects of teratogens, regulation of histone modifications and heterochromatin, and technical limitations affecting parthenogenesis and cloning.

Epigenetic research uses a wide range of molecular biologic techniques to further our understanding of epigenetic phenomena, including chromatin immunoprecipitation (together with its large-scale variants ChIP-on-chip and ChIP-Seq), fluorescent in situ hybridization, methylation-sensitive restriction enzymes, DNA adenine methyltransferase identification (DamID) and bisulfite sequencing. Furthermore, the use of bioinformatic methods is playing an increasing role (computational epigenetics).

Computer simulations and molecular dynamics approaches revealed the atomistic motions associated with the molecular recognition of the histone tail through an allosteric mechanism.[15]

wiki
So reading that you studied it all, though you gave up 10 yeaars ago -so missed the upkeep- I would presume that you could give a stronger defence for your position.

Self-reference just makes us go in a loop.
Because of the theory of evolution the theory of evolution is not true. gobbldegook.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74319 Feb 6, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't talk about tone, you are downright offensive from the start.
You engage, you get it wrong.
So the idea is to explain.
What follows is more wrong.
So your son knows best.
You have told everyone of.
So what are we to do with someone like you.
Given that we are bored anyway and just waisting some time...your entertainment.
MAAT, people you like are an offense to the whole human race that has lost countless years, and decades trying to prove a false theory. People like you has probably resulted in the unbelievable loss of scientific progress towards whole new technologies and discoveries. The sheer loss of mind-power in the pursuit of evolution is staggering.

I not only do not respect people like you. I regard such people as your as terrorists. You are very offense to each and every one of us, an embarrassment to science as a whole, and a poor excuse for a human being.

I am not here to dilly-dally in this charade. I am here to go far beyond the pale, and expose every single person that supports evolution as the modern day flat-earthers of our century. Because that is what you are, a primitive relic of the 1800's long overdue for extinction.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74320 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
None.
Do you realize that you are either lying, or that so entrenched in your false world view that you might go insane?
Stop trying to peddle your anti-scientific views of evolution. It's time to move on, and progress to real science. People like you need to get out of the way, and shut up.
No, all of the point you tried to make you were wrong on.

So what part of evolution do you thinks is "anti-science".

P.S., it is a good idea to avoid creationist sites when it comes to looking for evidence and arguments. They are filled with liar and convicted felons.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74321 Feb 6, 2013
I feel like educating people tonight.

Science only, no propaganda.

Yahoo, how old do you think the Solar System and the Earth are?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74322 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no, you are letting your inner idiot out.
Of course evolution has been tested. It has just not been tested by creatards. One of the simplest examples of a test is to look for a Cambrian rabbit. A Cambrian rabbit would debunk evolution. No one has ever found a Cambrian rabbit. Now according to creationism there is no reason that we should not find one. No Cambrian rabbit has been found. Evolution passed that test, creationism failed, to date. Now that could always change but it is highly doubtful.
No, I was talking about a strict scientific definition of evolution. Or to put it another way: The change in allele frequency of a population over time.
By that definition viruses evolve.
And yes, you may not know it but creationists lie all of the time. The reason that you don't know they are lying is that you don't know science. For example anytime you hear a creation site say either "evolutionists say.." or "evolution says..." The odds are over 90% that the rest of the sentence will be a lie. Not a mistake because they have been corrected many times. If someone corrects you on a mistake, especially if that "mistake" is derogatory that is no longer a mistake. It is a lie.
The also lie by a process called quote mining. More about that later.
LOL!!

But I don't support Creationism, and make no arguments or assertions.

I am merely tired of so much time being wasted on flat-earth theories like evolution.

Get over it, and move on.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74323 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
MAAT, you are the troll.
Just go back and review your own posts, and it's open vile and hatred towards those that dare to disagree with your anti-science views.
Only to those that chase away moreinteresting posters with an actual scientific background, you must mean.
And you are so thick-skulled that you don't even notice how offensive your stance is when people act interested.
I'm not here to feed your pride or your overblown ego.
Nor do i believe your underdog stance for even a minute.
(I'm so poor, can't afford a better school. Tosh)
People with less than you to go on can provide their kids a good education, just by using their brain and the library.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74324 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
MAAT, people you like are an offense to the whole human race that has lost countless years, and decades trying to prove a false theory. People like you has probably resulted in the unbelievable loss of scientific progress towards whole new technologies and discoveries. The sheer loss of mind-power in the pursuit of evolution is staggering.
I not only do not respect people like you. I regard such people as your as terrorists. You are very offense to each and every one of us, an embarrassment to science as a whole, and a poor excuse for a human being.
I am not here to dilly-dally in this charade. I am here to go far beyond the pale, and expose every single person that supports evolution as the modern day flat-earthers of our century. Because that is what you are, a primitive relic of the 1800's long overdue for extinction.
Are you institutionalised?
Do you consider predicates based upon your feeble understanding of science, Toe , statistics and lack of even the basic vocabulary enough to call people terrorist, overdue for extinction etc.

Bet you would have loved to join the nazis.

If this is another typical born-again christian you can expect the brown-shirts marching in your streets anyday now.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#74325 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, all of the point you tried to make you were wrong on.
So what part of evolution do you thinks is "anti-science".
P.S., it is a good idea to avoid creationist sites when it comes to looking for evidence and arguments. They are filled with liar and convicted felons.
Good luck with that question. None has ever gotten a sensible answer out of all those that went before.
So we all gave it a try here, and the result is no different.
As usual: knows it all, but can't answer even one question.
Declares it all wrong but can't tell you why.
We are again not going to have a scientific discussion, but another one quoting form an ID website, without proper understanding.
Projections rife.

So dear good luck.
play nice.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#74326 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!
But I don't support Creationism, and make no arguments or assertions.
I am merely tired of so much time being wasted on flat-earth theories like evolution.
Get over it, and move on.
You might be some sort of rare animal, but I doubt it. Most people in the U.S. tend to fall into two they believe the theory of evolution or the creation myth. Or they might be somewhere in between.

So, I have one question for you. What do you believe and why?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#74327 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Evolution was universally embraced in the late 1800's before we knew much about biology at all. Catholics almost universally adapted it, and still do. Theistic evolution became the gold standard, and Christians have done more to advance the theory than atheists by FAR. It is, in fact, mostly a CHRISTIAN error, as the majority of scientists that promoted it in the beginning were Christians, and also Jews.
Same holds true for the Big Bang theory, which also was moved forward by Christians, while atheists denounced it and fought against it tooth and nail.
Not only are you lying, you then attempt to appeal to authority, knowing full well that majority support is not evidence of scientific validity. Every scientific organization ALSO once accepted Eugenics, and many other perverse theories. So what?
Humans makes mistakes all the times, including, and especially, scientists who are desperate to win approval and support to get more funding.
I have very little respect for people like you, sir. Such ignorance is almost unforgivable, and poses a very real threat to science and society in general.
Sorry my friend....you ARE wrong, all that I said is true.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74329 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, it is clear you do not understand the theory or its model.
The fossil record only supports the theory of evolution. It in no way supports creationism.
Funny.

I never made any claims for Creationism.

Making you the fool, again.

And no, the fossils do not support evolution. They are just sitting their minding their own business. Only people support evolution, the vast majority on faith, and a rare few that desperately write scientific journals to keep the charade going lest they lose their careers.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74330 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Yankee, you obviously have no clue how evolution works, how long it takes, or what the driving force of evolution are.
You cannot debunk an idea that you do not understand. All you can do is to look like a fool.
Try to ask reasonable questions.
Do you know what the theory of evolution predicts that we would see in the fossil record?
Aargh. Ask questions and we will give you answers. Make stupid statements and we will tell you that your statements are stupid and why.
Your choice.
Quite the opposite, actually. I know more about evolution than most,

I fully understand it. It is a very simple model.

And I do debunk it, because it debunks itself.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74331 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, all of the point you tried to make you were wrong on.
So what part of evolution do you thinks is "anti-science".
P.S., it is a good idea to avoid creationist sites when it comes to looking for evidence and arguments. They are filled with liar and convicted felons.
My point?

I make no point. Evolution does. It makes the point of mutations being the catalyst of change over long periods of time.

No evidence supports that after many years of gathering evidence. The theory is no longer sustainable, but they keep coming up with creative new ways to keep it going, that is for sure.

The entire theory is anti-science. It has become so institutionalized, and the community so desperate to maintain the fallacy, that is is not wasting a staggering amount of energy, time, and money that could be better spent solving other serious world problems.

And do you keep bringing up Creationism? When have I ever supported it, or quoted from one? Is that part of your usually talking points when dealing with disagreement?

Very unscientific. A does not believe in evolution, therefore, A must be an evolutionist.

You are an idiot if you continue to talk about Creationists that have even LESS standing than evolutionists.

BOTH are enemies of science. BOTH are a massive waste of time and money.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74332 Feb 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You might be some sort of rare animal, but I doubt it. Most people in the U.S. tend to fall into two they believe the theory of evolution or the creation myth. Or they might be somewhere in between.
So, I have one question for you. What do you believe and why?
And most people are either "conservatives" or "liberals" too.

Americans have a nasty habit of putting politics and beliefs ahead of cold, hard, rational thought.

There is no "in between."

Either a theory has evidence, or it does not. No need to apply unscientific labels like "Evolutionist" or "Creationist" to the issue, as that is merely evidence of bias.

Now, you can explain or provide evidence of there being enough mutations to effect change in species, or you can step to the side, and let us get on with real science.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Level 1

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#74333 Feb 6, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry my friend....you ARE wrong, all that I said is true.
As I expected. No counter argument. No attempt to provide evidence for your beliefs. And no game.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#74334 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I have very little respect for people like you, sir. Such ignorance is almost unforgivable, and poses a very real threat to science and society in general.
It is religion that poses a real threat to society in general. Religion took over the Republican party the last 10-12 years or so, and is still trying to insert the Christian religion into our schools in contravention of the constitution.

They want to eventually control our government and impose christian laws. Some say George Bush was thinking of starting Armageddon and his 'Christian Cabinet' was egging him on.

I don't believe any atheists would fly airplanes into skyscrapers....it takes religion to do such dumb-ass things.

Christianity had a really bad reputation for killing those who don't believe in the early days, it is only fairly recently that it has been forced to calmed down. Religion has killed millions of people down through the years, for religious reasons.

I believe it is you who is ignorant bud.

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