Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73148 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
so in "reality" there is no empirical evidence carbon dating does not break down as a reliable measurement.
T/F...?
Of course it does. Which is why it's not used passed 60,000 years. Since evolution uses timescales of millions of years its validity remains largely unaffected by carbon dating. There's around 60+ different methods of dating, all used in different ways for different situations. When used correctly, the dates concur.

But since you now have an issue with various scientific dating techniques as well as biology, I thank you for openly admitting to throwing out physics and biology too. In short, you reject ALL science.

Stop using your computer and go back to living in a cave.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73149 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Then there can be no real evidence to trace how chickens evolved from dinosaurs without DNA evidence.
Actually we have evidence from comparative anatomy and protein comparisons. But if you want DNA then we have that too, in the form of dormant DNA that sometimes reactivates and causes them to grow their dino teeth. This has an unfortunate effect of fusing their beak together and killing the chicken.

Happy now?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#73150 Jan 30, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The ways of Aristotle have been considered out of date for a LONG time now. It was that line of thinking that one could sit on their fat azzes and just apply "logic" and claim to be able to figure out everything that led to erroneous conclusions.
Hey go easy on Aristotle! He was one of the great observers, and contrasts admirably with Plato (his teacher), in all the ways above that you mention. Plato thought it could all be figured out in the abstract, but Aristotle made great "pre-scientific" strides, for example observing that whales were more like mammals than fish.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73151 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Universal Intelligence is a term used by some to describe what they see as organization, or order of the universe. It has been described as "the intrinsic tendency for things to self-organize and co-evolve into ever more complex, intricately interwoven and mutually compatible forms."
In attempting to design an artificial machine intelligence, the term universal intelligence is a descriptive term based on a mathematical formula.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Intell...
There is math in everything. That's the universal language and the universal intelligence of everything! It's simple matrix.
Simple matrix or complex mathematical language?

There is only math if an intelligence is their to ascribe it to something. But a rock won't stop being a rock just because there's no humans around to apply math to it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73152 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Intrinsic intelligent design.
By whom via what observable mechanism? And when? And where?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73153 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Could care less about the politics involved.
Of course not. Because ID really IS creationism, just as we pointed out. Which was contrary to YOUR claims. But it doesn't matter if you're wrong, does it?(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73154 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
The only point I was making was that tree rings used to verify the method....but there is quite a difference between one hundred year old tree rings, and millions of year old fossils.
Gee, ya think?

Therefore we can use longstanding trees to confirm carbon dating within 9,000 years. And we use neither of those for dates involving millions of years.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#73155 Jan 30, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Liar!
If the bible is actually that, there would be no 10 commandments, which speaks against …


This makes you to be a liar and a misquoter of the bible.
Sorry, are you saying a passage that says be good and worship god or the additional 603 commandments that crop up in the OT means that all the rest of the babble is irrelevant? Those verses I mentioned exist, they represent examples, and by no means all the atrocities and hatred metered out by the babble. I have given you the verse numbers and still you deny that they exist. You really are deliberately ignorant

There is considerable evidence to suggest that the last jc was actually a terrorist who was crucified for murder, i.e. the babble is a liar

Misquoter???

Genesis 7:11-24
King James Version (KJV)
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Exodus 12:29
King James Version (KJV)
29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Deuteronomy 21:10-13
King James Version (KJV)
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

Tell me what is misquoted about those passages?

OR ARE YOU LYING TO PROTECT YOUR OWN LITTLE DELUSIONAL BUBBLE?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73156 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I said I don't care about the politics...politics and facts might be the same to you...but there's a world of difference.
Science taught with political bias, to support the ideology of science is not true science.
Hence why evolution is taught and not creationist apologetics. Science doesn't CARE who you vote for. It works the same for everyone.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73157 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course its tied in christian creationism...It has to be, because the obvious can't be honestly refuted.
True, one can't falsify non-falsifiable non-scientific magic wizards.(shrug)

Can't falsify the FSM either.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73158 Jan 30, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey go easy on Aristotle! He was one of the great observers, and contrasts admirably with Plato (his teacher), in all the ways above that you mention. Plato thought it could all be figured out in the abstract, but Aristotle made great "pre-scientific" strides, for example observing that whales were more like mammals than fish.
Indeed, his methods were part of the necessary scientific learning curve.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#73159 Jan 30, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You have no evidence either.
There is evidence that can take us back to 10^-34th of a second after the ‘big bang’, the evidence that you exist for one thing. Actually it’s about 10^-20th of a second the difference between is the time it took the fundamental laws that govern this universe to resolve. The fact that you deliberately ignore that evidence is your problem.

Prior to that there is mathematical conjecture based on the fact that the maths works, the atomic domain exists (you exist so you can’t deny that) and the quantum domain can be in some small part observed.

So can you offer any evidence that goddidit?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73161 Jan 30, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Misquoter???
Why yes - a misquoter is anyone who takes vague or ambiguous Biblical scripture and disagrees with Charlie's particular interpretation.

:-p

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#73162 Jan 30, 2013
The truth is, the human body and brain/mind is infinitely more complicated than a Robot body and even a positronic brain, and we can all agree a Robot is created by a maker. How can we then say humans came about by accident or random chance against all odds of entropy and disorder? How is it humans came about and happened to appear on the surface of a planet that is the perfect distance from its star, has a breathable atmosphere, interdependent life forms, plenty of water and have the capacity for art, music, Love, rationalizing, philosophizing, imagination, and building freaking awesome Robots. Is it any wonder humans like to build and make things, since some essence of the Creator resides in them. The corruption of that self same attribute manifests in their ability to choose to kill and destroy. Gotta go, agents are closing in to try to disassemble me.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#73163 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...Did I say they wasn't? All I did was quote a science article.
If you payed any attention at all,the idea was about incorporating organic materials into computer design.
Transistors made from organic materials found in the human body
http://www.ecofriend.com/transistors-made-org...
LMAO!

Pretty soon we'll be implanting chips on humans! lol

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#73165 Jan 30, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
The truth is, the human body and brain/mind is infinitely more complicated than a Robot body and even a positronic brain, and we can all agree a Robot is created by a maker. How can we then say humans came about by accident or random chance against all odds of entropy and disorder? How is it humans came about and happened to appear on the surface of a planet that is the perfect distance from its star, has a breathable atmosphere, interdependent life forms, plenty of water and have the capacity for art, music, Love, rationalizing, philosophizing, imagination, and building freaking awesome Robots. Is it any wonder humans like to build and make things, since some essence of the Creator resides in them. The corruption of that self same attribute manifests in their ability to choose to kill and destroy. Gotta go, agents are closing in to try to disassemble me.
Someone here will point out the watchmaker fallacy on your argument, watch.

While their is genius in LOGIC and how we distinguish arguments as FALLACIES, there is even one greater genius...GOD. Because if there is really a God, he is truly undetected, unseen, untouched, unimagined (well, it depends on how wild imaginations of some people are. lol), or unexplained. This could make a really awesome detective movie or novel. No one will ever catch that criminal. lol

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#73166 Jan 30, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually we have evidence from comparative anatomy and protein comparisons. But if you want DNA then we have that too, in the form of dormant DNA that sometimes reactivates and causes them to grow their dino teeth. This has an unfortunate effect of fusing their beak together and killing the chicken.
Happy now?
Not happy. You just ruined my appetite. I was craving for some KFC ;-)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73167 Jan 30, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
The truth is, the human body and brain/mind is infinitely more complicated than a Robot body and even a positronic brain, and we can all agree a Robot is created by a maker. How can we then say humans came about by accident or random chance against all odds of entropy and disorder?
Beats me. But since there are natural NON-random forces also at work which you've failed to consider we don't have to worry about the caricature of pure "random chance".

With robots however we can agree they have makers because both the makers and the mechanisms they use are observed. Robots are also not self-replicating naturally occurring organisms, so the "design" analogy only goes so far.
Naughtyrobot wrote:
How is it humans came about and happened to appear on the surface of a planet that is the perfect distance from its star, has a breathable atmosphere, interdependent life forms, plenty of water and have the capacity for art, music, Love, rationalizing, philosophizing, imagination, and building freaking awesome Robots.
Because it's too hot on Mercury.

No idea what you mean by "perfect" distance though, as the distance of Earth from the sun can vary around 3 million miles. Mars and Venus are also within the habitable zone. Plus the possibility of life on Europa may also redefine whatever ideas you may have about "perfect" sun distance.
Naughtyrobot wrote:
Is it any wonder humans like to build and make things, since some essence of the Creator resides in them.
What creator? Who or what is it and how can we tell? What mechanisms did it use to do whatever it is you think it did and how can we tell. Where did it do it and how can we tell? When did it do it and how can we tell?

I've been asking the fundies on here for years. And so far all they can tell me is that something did something, somehow, somewhere, at sometime. Either that or Goddidit with magic cuz the Bible iz true cuz the Bible sez so. And to just ignore the bits about talking lizards, donkeys and the Earth being flat.
Naughtyrobot wrote:
The corruption of that self same attribute manifests in their ability to choose to kill and destroy. Gotta go, agents are closing in to try to disassemble me.
That's organisms competing for resources for ya. For some reason this all-knowing all-powerful designer didn't forsee this.(shrug)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#73168 Jan 30, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. Sounds exactly like abiogenesis.
<quoted text>
What?
That's right. You read it. There's math in everything! Anything can be explained with mathematical formulas. In my world, at least. You're in my world now, so I can calculate you if you want. lol
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73169 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone here will point out the watchmaker fallacy on your argument, watch.
While their is genius in LOGIC and how we distinguish arguments as FALLACIES, there is even one greater genius...GOD. Because if there is really a God, he is truly undetected, unseen, untouched, unimagined (well, it depends on how wild imaginations of some people are. lol), or unexplained. This could make a really awesome detective movie or novel. No one will ever catch that criminal. lol
Bingo. And that's precisely the problem. People like xo have accused God of being guilty of various acts, but refuse to present the court with evidence. Then they complain when the case is dismissed.

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