Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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#73069
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>Please provide the Bible verse where this ("mountains up, ocean floors down") is specified.

Langoliers wrote, "<quoted text>
Lack of evidence is not evidence. "

Repeat this 1,000 times.

To yourself, please.
There are a number of Scripture passages that identify the flood waters with the present-day seas (Amos 9:6 and Job 38:8-11 note “waves”). If the waters are still here, why are the highest mountains not still covered with water, as they were in Noah's day? Psalm 104 suggests an answer. After the waters covered the mountains (verse 6), God rebuked them and they fled (verse 7); the mountains rose, the valleys sank down (verse 8) and God set a boundary so that they will never again cover the earth (verse 9)[1]. They are the same waters!

Isaiah gives this same statement that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth (Isaiah 54:9). Clearly, what the Bible is telling us is that God acted to alter the earth's topography. New continental landmasses bearing new mountain chains of folded rock strata were uplifted from below the globe-encircling waters that had eroded and leveled the pre-Flood topography, while large deep ocean basin were formed to receive and accommodate the Flood waters that then drained off the emerging continents.

That is why the oceans are so deep, and why there are folded mountain ranges. Indeed, if the entire earth's surface were leveled by smoothing out the topography of not only the land surface but also the rock surface on the ocean floor, the waters of the ocean would cover the earth's surface to a depth of 1.7 miles (2.7 kilometers). We need to remember that nearly 70 percent of the earth's surface is still covered by water. Quite clearly, then, the waters of Noah's Flood are in today's ocean basins.

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#73070
Jan 29, 2013
 
ztormbringer wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh, actually it has, over 20 years ago experiments with contained conditions holding what science at that time considered the "primordial soup" mixture of chemicals in solution and in atmosphere subjected to high voltage electrical arc to replicate lightning produced proto amino acid chains - the building blocks of life as we know it, those when further stimulated began to organize in more complex structures - indistinguishable from the posited first living things on earth - the experiment was shut down out of fear of and pressure from religious groups and the subsequent withdrawal of funding. The data published was directly instrumental in the later successful cloning experiments.
"experiment was shut down out of fear of and pressure from religious groups"

Sounds like a very simple process to facilitate...and to claim that making a very simple single cell organism in a science lab in some university or laboratory somewhere would all be shut down and abandoned and never tried again because of religious groups twenty years ago is quite unbelievable...

link please.



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#73071
Jan 29, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>And the evidence for this is what exactly?

Langoliers wrote, "Now try and understand that the word dinosaurs is a word that was invented recently. The Bible does describe them however under other names "Behemoth" and "Dragons". Rather funny the Bible describing your dinosaurs thousands of years before the first bones were found."

A Fred Flintstone fan, I see.
Example:

Job 40:15-24
New International Version (NIV)

15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?

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#73072
Jan 29, 2013
 

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xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
"experiment was shut down out of fear of and pressure from religious groups"
Sounds like a very simple process to facilitate...and to claim that making a very simple single cell organism in a science lab in some university or laboratory somewhere would all be shut down and abandoned and never tried again because of religious groups twenty years ago is quite unbelievable...
link please.
The truth is that Science, with all its technology, cannot even make a very simple, single cell organism.

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#73073
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Laugh your ass out to death you educated backward clown.
Actually, I love it when science zealots resort to name calling without any posted counter argument...all that means is that they have no counter argument, and indirectly validate my statement.lol

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#73074
Jan 29, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Science didn't tie ID to creationism. It was the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania.
Try a religious forum if you want to discuss Christ. This is a science forum. Duh.
lol...you call this a science forum?

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#73075
Jan 29, 2013
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a number of Scripture passages that identify the flood waters with the present-day seas...[snipped]
Amos 9:6

"American King James Version
It is he that builds his stories in the heaven, and has founded his troop in the earth; he that calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out on the face of the earth: The LORD is his name."

Job 38:1-11 New International Version

1 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

4 Where were you when I laid the earths foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone

7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?

8 Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb,

9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place

11 when I said,This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt?"

Psalm 104:6-9
5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

6 You covered it with the watery depths as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains.

7 But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound of your thunder they took to flight;

8 they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them.

9 You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth."

(a) You have in the above biblical texts, VERY ambiguous prose, that does NOT suggest that 'mountains rose' or 'ocean floors dropped'. In fact, EVERYTHING that a Supreme Being may have left us to investigate tells us that nothing of the sort EVER took place.

Geology, Paleontology, Geneology, Anthropology and possibly other sciences seperately tells us that there has NEVER been a world-wide flood in the past several million years.

(b) The Bible is rife with blind ascertations with NO evidence whatsoever. Your supplied verses (above) are not "evidence", but re-telling of earlier stories and without merit.

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#73076
Jan 29, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Please back up your baseless claim with objective verifiable testable scientific evidence. Thanks in advance for not bothering.
Ever.
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."

Well, then why don't you give us the evidence. You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.

Start from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...

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#73077
Jan 29, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."
Well, then why don't you give us the evidence. You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.
Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...
"A study by ancient DNA researchers at Western Australia's Murdoch University has found the hereditary material cannot survive more than 6.8 million years. Most dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7803373/Fossil...

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#73078
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."
Well, then why don't you give us the evidence. You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.
Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...
They don't want evidences that goes against their science ideologies...they only except evidences that support their own secular views.

Their claim of one of bias impartiality.lol

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#73079
Jan 29, 2013
 
( thier claim is one of bias impartiality)

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#73080
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
"A study by ancient DNA researchers at Western Australia's Murdoch University has found the hereditary material cannot survive more than 6.8 million years. Most dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7803373/Fossil...
At what point does carbon dating break down?

And how would you really know if it did or didn't?

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#73081
Jan 29, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
( thier claim is one of bias impartiality)
read: reality

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#73082
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
"A study by ancient DNA researchers at Western Australia's Murdoch University has found the hereditary material cannot survive more than 6.8 million years. Most dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7803373/Fossil...
I know that. But there are claims of DNA found in some dinosaurs.

The Mighty T-Rex!

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7285683/ns/technolo...

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#73083
Jan 29, 2013
 
How's that for contradiction, eh?

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#73084
Jan 29, 2013
 

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Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
read: reality
so in "reality" there is no empirical evidence carbon dating does not break down as a reliable measurement.

T/F...?

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#73085
Jan 29, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that. But there are claims of DNA found in some dinosaurs.
The Mighty T-Rex!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7285683/ns/technolo...
http://news.ncsu.edu/releases/tpschweitzer-bo...

"Schweitzer [The lead researcher in your link] and her team also tested for the presence of DNA within the cellular structures, using an antibody that only binds to the backbone of DNA. The antibody reacted to small amounts of material within the cells of both the T. rex and the B. canadensis. To rule out the presence of microbes, they used an antibody that binds histone proteins, which bind tightly to the DNA of everything except microbes, and got another positive result. They then ran two other histochemical stains which fluoresce when they attach to DNA molecules. Those tests were also positive. These data strongly suggest that the DNA is original, but without sequence data, it is impossible to confirm that the DNA is dinosaurian."

Your Dino DNA claim hereby refuted.

So far.

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#73086
Jan 29, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
so in "reality" there is no empirical evidence carbon dating does not break down as a reliable measurement.
T/F...?
Moving your goal posts much?

Radiometric Dating

A Christian Perspective

Dr. Roger C. Wiens

"Dr. Wiens ... has published over twenty scientific research papers and has also published articles in Christian magazines. Dr. Wiens became a Christian at a young age, and has been a member of Mennonite Brethren, General Conference Baptist, and Conservative Congregational, and Vineyard denominations. He does not see a conflict between science in its ideal form (the study of God's handiwork) and the Bible, or between miracles on the one hand, and an old Earth on the other."

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

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#73087
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Man should have an even closer relative than chimpanzee:the potato!. Because the number of chromosomes in potatoes is the same as that of man: 46

The analyses done on some proteins show man as close to some very different living beings. In a survey carried out by the researchers in Cambridge University, some proteins of land dwelling animals were compared. Amazingly, in nearly all samples, man and chicken were paired as the closest relatives. The next closest relative was crocodile.(New Scientist v.103, 16 August 1984, p.19)

It's hard to believe, but each tree has unique DNA. Tree DNA is surprisingly similar to human DNA. It has the same basic building blocks. It has the same bases. They're arranged in the same way. The genetic code is the same in trees and in humans. There's a surprising similarity.
- Dr. Eleanor White

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#73088
Jan 29, 2013
 

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xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
so in "reality" there is no empirical evidence carbon dating does not break down as a reliable measurement.
T/F...?
"Carbon Dating" is only good for organic remains of about 60,000 years of age.

Items OLDER than that are dated by one of the other FORTY OTHER radiometric dating methods.

Many of which over lap and confirm each other as to generalized dates.

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